The second house just feeds a small (cold- no heater) shower and a small recepticle for storing water to flush the thai style toilet - so really is irrelevant.
The biggest problem is in the mornings when the whole neighbourhood wants water and the tenants have to put up with a trickle from the shower
Will note all this down and start my search
Thanks
Paul
To water tank and pump or not?
Paul, you are welcome to see my setup. I have water line from road with faucet used to ck if have water. This feeds a tank (stainless steel, but I have heard that they start leaking after a couple of years) and also feeds pump.
So even if water flow is a steady trickle, pump will make up the difference. And when water flow is off, I switch tank on to flow to pump, while shuting other flow to pump. The German plumber has one extra line that I don't have, so he can pump from city to tank, so that it fills faster. Sure you could see his also, just PM me if interested and I will send you my number.
The main reason to have a large tank here, is for when the water is off for days. If your water is never off, you don't need a tank, just the pump.
We have been back on city water now for a couple of days, yesterday while TW was filling pails from check faucet, (not thru pump) and I flushed toilet, pump could not get enough water, so I therefore noticed that all we had was a steady trickle, otherwise it is not a problem to do both.
It is much easier to see than explain
So even if water flow is a steady trickle, pump will make up the difference. And when water flow is off, I switch tank on to flow to pump, while shuting other flow to pump. The German plumber has one extra line that I don't have, so he can pump from city to tank, so that it fills faster. Sure you could see his also, just PM me if interested and I will send you my number.
The main reason to have a large tank here, is for when the water is off for days. If your water is never off, you don't need a tank, just the pump.
We have been back on city water now for a couple of days, yesterday while TW was filling pails from check faucet, (not thru pump) and I flushed toilet, pump could not get enough water, so I therefore noticed that all we had was a steady trickle, otherwise it is not a problem to do both.
It is much easier to see than explain
I may have a fix for this as I've used it on projects around the house and it's called JB Weld. Great stuff it's like an epoxy paste that you mix the two pieces of paste together and apply it to what every is leaking. I've used it on my VW's old engine when I got a small crack in the case. Ater setting up never leaked a drop of oil (from that spotDakoda wrote:This feeds a tank (stainless steel, but I have heard that they start leaking after a couple of years) and also feeds pump.
) and was still in place after I switched engines.Punish the Liver
Paul the larger GPM is to assist the pump recover when the pump kicks in after you had turned on the water. If wife is washing dishes, you flush commode, Junior outside watering the mutt, and the apartment happens to turn on the water all at the same time, the larger volume will be appreciated.
It sounds like Dakoda has an inline pump. These work very well. The only drawback is most of the pumps in this class for household use are about 3.1 to 3.9 GPM. If several sources turn on water at the same time you loose a bit of pressure. Most times that is not a problem unless it is you in the shower as it will get the least flow as it is higher than most other outlets in your house.
You can get a larger GPM inline pump but be careful as there is no pressure tank in the system to take the full force of the pump before it cuts off. this can cause a water hammer effect and be detrimental to your piping.
Am I againt inline pumps. Heck no. They are good but just do not oversize it as plumbing breaking inside house causes a bunch of other headaches. Sounds like Dakoda has sized his correctly.
It sounds like Dakoda has an inline pump. These work very well. The only drawback is most of the pumps in this class for household use are about 3.1 to 3.9 GPM. If several sources turn on water at the same time you loose a bit of pressure. Most times that is not a problem unless it is you in the shower as it will get the least flow as it is higher than most other outlets in your house.
You can get a larger GPM inline pump but be careful as there is no pressure tank in the system to take the full force of the pump before it cuts off. this can cause a water hammer effect and be detrimental to your piping.
Am I againt inline pumps. Heck no. They are good but just do not oversize it as plumbing breaking inside house causes a bunch of other headaches. Sounds like Dakoda has sized his correctly.
I have separately bookmarked these postings on Firefox.
It is for those days when I
a) think that i know everything that i can
b) think that i can instantly read and understand (and do) anything written in English
c) should ever undertake a plumbing task again.
Thank you, posters, for bringing me back to reality and teaching me to respect my limitations...
It is for those days when I
a) think that i know everything that i can
b) think that i can instantly read and understand (and do) anything written in English
c) should ever undertake a plumbing task again.
Thank you, posters, for bringing me back to reality and teaching me to respect my limitations...
-
BangkokButcher
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 2690
- Joined: July 4, 2005, 9:06 pm
- Contact:
Dakoda wrote:Oldman, I have also drank from a well that was around the 350 foot deep mark, but the water itself tasted absolutely revolting, the rest of the family seemed to have adapted to the taste, just wondering if your's was ok?
In the States, we get them tested. I would not be drinking from a un-tested well
yeah I hear what your saying Dakoda, I have no idea wotsoever as to whether or not this well was tested, but believe me, it wasn't pleasant 
Bob look at all the fun you will be missing and as it looks like you'll beat me to living in Udon and you could be the first to have an exotic water system. Just think you could say you have a solar powered water heater backed up by a deep well pumped high pressure water tank systemBobHelm wrote:I have separately bookmarked these postings on Firefox.
It is for those days when I
a) think that i know everything that i can
b) think that i can instantly read and understand (and do) anything written in English
c) should ever undertake a plumbing task again.
Thank you, posters, for bringing me back to reality and teaching me to respect my limitations...
Needless to say you would scare the day lights out of the locals but you would have enough water pressure and hot water to send any soi dog running from your place 
Punish the Liver
The water system I have seems to be the standard in this village, if not all of the NE. I had nothing to do with getting it installed, but after some problems, figured I best look at it and get an understanding on how it works.
Upon arriving here in Udon, I learned one thing quickly, it is cheaper to get someone to fix or install something, than to do it yourself. You will spend much more in gas trying to find something, than the cost of labor.
My pump spec's are in Thai, so I have the foggest idea what they are! Some areas, like this one I am in, always have water problems, while TW area, (so she tells me everytime water is off), never have a water problem.
During water festival, we had no water, while all of the city had water to throw, hoses coming out of houses and shops belching the stuff, and we had none!
Sometime remind me to tell the story of the plumber that came in white shirt and tie, and was pumping the water from the bottom of the tank into the top of the tank, and was trying to tell me I had water! Did no good to point out that the level stayed the same in the tank, or that the water meter was not moving, he just said must be broke, and don't worry "you get free water"
. Next day a neighbor down the soi, found the problem, soi shutoff was broke in the closed position, so we broke the seal and replaced it.
keeps life interesting
Upon arriving here in Udon, I learned one thing quickly, it is cheaper to get someone to fix or install something, than to do it yourself. You will spend much more in gas trying to find something, than the cost of labor.
My pump spec's are in Thai, so I have the foggest idea what they are! Some areas, like this one I am in, always have water problems, while TW area, (so she tells me everytime water is off), never have a water problem.
During water festival, we had no water, while all of the city had water to throw, hoses coming out of houses and shops belching the stuff, and we had none!
Sometime remind me to tell the story of the plumber that came in white shirt and tie, and was pumping the water from the bottom of the tank into the top of the tank, and was trying to tell me I had water! Did no good to point out that the level stayed the same in the tank, or that the water meter was not moving, he just said must be broke, and don't worry "you get free water"
. Next day a neighbor down the soi, found the problem, soi shutoff was broke in the closed position, so we broke the seal and replaced it. keeps life interesting
Whilst gathering information on this thread for researching a prospective pump/tank purchase, I was looking upon my current (basic) setup (main water only direct to house). I stumbled up a question and my physics class days are long gone so maybe someone can answer this question.
I (think) I remember that pressure acts equally in all directions and if so : does the diameter of the water pipe have any effect on the pressure?
I have 3 different diameter pipes in a 10 metre run from the street to my first outlet. Is this because whoever fitted it used whatever he could find - or is there a great scientific reason and the plumber was obviously a genius? (I'd go for the former but......)
My theory is that the pressure/flow here is so pathetic it isn't going to matter whether I use one inch pipe or a 2 metre concrete tunnel !
I (think) I remember that pressure acts equally in all directions and if so : does the diameter of the water pipe have any effect on the pressure?
I have 3 different diameter pipes in a 10 metre run from the street to my first outlet. Is this because whoever fitted it used whatever he could find - or is there a great scientific reason and the plumber was obviously a genius? (I'd go for the former but......)
My theory is that the pressure/flow here is so pathetic it isn't going to matter whether I use one inch pipe or a 2 metre concrete tunnel !
Paul, most likely it is the pressure issue. There are several ways to reduce pipe from them water main to piping to house. Using several pipe sizes is one of them athough a bit dated. different size pipe, els, and pipe lengths do affect pressure. The going to different size pipe in a short distance, on a goop pressureized syatem should have very minamal effect.
In the case of Udon from listening to the posters, I would say most of the issue is just insufficient pressure to start. Sounds like they are running less than 20 to 25 PSI system. I bet they do not have any booster pump system either. When you add the distance of all the new piping9for Udon growth) to an already insufficient system, pipe drag will kill the pressure. This goes back to an eairlier post of water does not compress so you must use an inline booster pump to keep pressure and volume up.
In the case of Udon from listening to the posters, I would say most of the issue is just insufficient pressure to start. Sounds like they are running less than 20 to 25 PSI system. I bet they do not have any booster pump system either. When you add the distance of all the new piping9for Udon growth) to an already insufficient system, pipe drag will kill the pressure. This goes back to an eairlier post of water does not compress so you must use an inline booster pump to keep pressure and volume up.
as an example of the pressure here at my house. When the Main shut off on the city side of the meter, broke in the shut position, we just took it off and put a new one on. And No, we did not get wet. Maybe lost enough water to cook some spaghetti. Now try that in the states 
Paul, the way mine is hooked up is not through the pipe that enters from the street. That one has been pluged. It now runs from the street to the pump area and from the pump into an outside faucet which now has a T in it! Maybe too hard to explain.
Now try that in the states Paul, the way mine is hooked up is not through the pipe that enters from the street. That one has been pluged. It now runs from the street to the pump area and from the pump into an outside faucet which now has a T in it! Maybe too hard to explain.
let me add then that after the water meter, the pipe is usually 1 inch (in fact even up to the water meter is about 1 inch too - come to think of it) so no different size piping should be required all the way to where it enters your house - which is always 1 inch connections.banpaeng wrote:Paul, most likely it is the pressure issue. There are several ways to reduce pipe from them water main to piping to house. Using several pipe sizes is one of them athough a bit dated.
So really there is not a need to go from 1 inch to 2 inch - back to one inch, a little bit of what looks like 2 1/2 inch then back to 1 inch as it enters the house ?
Or like I said - perhaps the work of a genius LOL !!!!
I have been browsing the stores looking at tanks and pumps. The tank is no problem - they're all pretty much the same - however the pump selection has got me completely confused now. In each shop we asked the staff for advice - and almost every shop had conflicting advice on the power and type of pump we need !
It seems there are two kinds generally , round ones for pumping from an underground storage tank and square ones for pumping from an external (S/Steel) surface mounted tank. Apparently the square ones have a kind of miniature accumulator inside (a small cylinder with a small air pressure and a rubber ballon which the water sits inside) this apparently will cut down on fluctuations and assist in pressure drops when multiple appliances are turned on. I remember that from my hydraulics days - so can understand that)
But.... if I want to use a round one - that will be fine too, (apparently) although I might suffer from a little initial pressure drop.
And then ... not all the square ones have the small accumulator to provide header pressure (Hitachi do)
Some said I need 100w power (about 19 L/p/min) others say I need 125 or 150W (about 26/29 L/P/M)
Some say i need cast iron casings on the pump - others (Mitsubishi) say I need plastic for easy maintenance
What do the others here use.
All I can think of is to see what others use and are happy with - and use the same. I feel like I am never going to get a straight answer from any of the stores - especially the small chinese shop on the roundabout who was basing his selection(for me) on budget. After showing me one made in korea and another made in China - I made for the exit and he gave the "ok sir - how much u wanna pay" - as if it was the price, not the crap quality that I was unhappy about.
Oh how I miss going into B&Q or Wickes and getting clear unbias advice which was pretty consistent wherever you went.
Its as if they couldn't care less about what you buy here as long as they can sell you something. "Oh yes sir you can use that too" - dai dai !!!
Knowing full well that it is completely unsuitable.
Please help - somebody !
Paul
It seems there are two kinds generally , round ones for pumping from an underground storage tank and square ones for pumping from an external (S/Steel) surface mounted tank. Apparently the square ones have a kind of miniature accumulator inside (a small cylinder with a small air pressure and a rubber ballon which the water sits inside) this apparently will cut down on fluctuations and assist in pressure drops when multiple appliances are turned on. I remember that from my hydraulics days - so can understand that)
But.... if I want to use a round one - that will be fine too, (apparently) although I might suffer from a little initial pressure drop.
And then ... not all the square ones have the small accumulator to provide header pressure (Hitachi do)
Some said I need 100w power (about 19 L/p/min) others say I need 125 or 150W (about 26/29 L/P/M)
Some say i need cast iron casings on the pump - others (Mitsubishi) say I need plastic for easy maintenance
What do the others here use.
All I can think of is to see what others use and are happy with - and use the same. I feel like I am never going to get a straight answer from any of the stores - especially the small chinese shop on the roundabout who was basing his selection(for me) on budget. After showing me one made in korea and another made in China - I made for the exit and he gave the "ok sir - how much u wanna pay" - as if it was the price, not the crap quality that I was unhappy about.
Oh how I miss going into B&Q or Wickes and getting clear unbias advice which was pretty consistent wherever you went.
Its as if they couldn't care less about what you buy here as long as they can sell you something. "Oh yes sir you can use that too" - dai dai !!!
Knowing full well that it is completely unsuitable.
Please help - somebody !
Paul
They are a bit correct on either. Waht you really need to find out is what pressure they pump to along with the volume at that pressure. Would hate to have a pump that pumped 19L at 10 PSI but at 50 PSI it pumped 3L. I will only add this to this question.
This is what I would do.
1. Buy the round centrifigul pump. It is about 8 GPM and will suffice all household needs you have.
2. This is where I differ if I understand you correctly. I would have the pump, pump into the pressure tank(about 60 gal tank). You will need a pressure turn on switch and turn off switch. I would set the swith to turn on at 35 PSI or whatever it translates to. I would have the switch turn off at 65 to 80 PSI. The tank will do the same thing as the bladder in the smaller pump. Wven on the lower pressure if you turn on multipul faucets it should have about 28 PSI.
3. Come from tank to house.
This should allow for a very nice shower and household experiances.
I am only guessing you are on public water. As this is spotty then before your pump, you might put up a normal in the air tank on a float system. Teh float will not let it run over but when pressure is low form city you will still have water.
If you are on a water well syatem let you well pump serve as the only pump you will need. Just hook it up to your pressure switches as above.
A lot of talk for a simple system. Surely you can find a country boy from the states and let them hook you up. The pump systems are common here in the states.
Items needed
1 pump
1 pressure tank
2 pressure switches.
1 half ass electrician
Hope this helps.
This is what I would do.
1. Buy the round centrifigul pump. It is about 8 GPM and will suffice all household needs you have.
2. This is where I differ if I understand you correctly. I would have the pump, pump into the pressure tank(about 60 gal tank). You will need a pressure turn on switch and turn off switch. I would set the swith to turn on at 35 PSI or whatever it translates to. I would have the switch turn off at 65 to 80 PSI. The tank will do the same thing as the bladder in the smaller pump. Wven on the lower pressure if you turn on multipul faucets it should have about 28 PSI.
3. Come from tank to house.
This should allow for a very nice shower and household experiances.
I am only guessing you are on public water. As this is spotty then before your pump, you might put up a normal in the air tank on a float system. Teh float will not let it run over but when pressure is low form city you will still have water.
If you are on a water well syatem let you well pump serve as the only pump you will need. Just hook it up to your pressure switches as above.
A lot of talk for a simple system. Surely you can find a country boy from the states and let them hook you up. The pump systems are common here in the states.
Items needed
1 pump
1 pressure tank
2 pressure switches.
1 half ass electrician
Hope this helps.
Paul I finally found something with a picture of what I am describing. In this picture they are using a submersible pump and like I said in above post if you are on a water well this should be all you need.
If on a water system from city etc., Just let the centrifigual pump take the place of the submersable pump.
http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/
I will look a bit more to see if I can find a better picture.
If on a water system from city etc., Just let the centrifigual pump take the place of the submersable pump.
http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/
I will look a bit more to see if I can find a better picture.