Earthing for Hot Water Unit

[AlexO]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

[minimiglia]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

Clearly little product experence here, some are far better than others and I agree with galt he is spot on some are far better than others regardless of there ratings

[dunroaming]

Obviously you never read the OP,s comments it's not the element it's the flow, so yes some units are better in controlling the flow but the elements are all basically the same.

[kopkei]

again an example how something simple isn't simple for some ,
The guy who takes care of our electrical issues now (different to the above guy), has suggested we install a separate ground pole to earth just the heater, on the outside of the wall where it is located ie a lot closer.
yes it will suffice to protect you , also using the main earthed true the fuse box will work ,
why some appliances die more early than others ? everything can break down even us ,as to one brand heating better than others? this all depending the system and used materials ,
so when no earth at all a ground driven rod for the unit only will also do the job ....nothing complicated about this
remember.... all can be simple if you can keep it simple ...do not overthink or overdo things ...
good luck all

[AlexO]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

Clearly little product experence here, some are far better than others and I agree with galt he is spot on some are far better than others regardless of there ratings

Ok in simple terms. Put one pint/liter of water in a 1Kw kettle, put one pint/liter of water in a 3 Kw kettle switch them both on at the exact same time and see which one heats the water to boiling first. Does not matter what name/label is on the kettle it is a simple law of physics.

[bluejets]

again an example how something simple isn't simple for some ,
The guy who takes care of our electrical issues now (different to the above guy), has suggested we install a separate ground pole to earth just the heater, on the outside of the wall where it is located ie a lot closer.
yes it will suffice to protect you , also using the main earthed true the fuse box will work ,
why some appliances die more early than others ? everything can break down even us ,as to one brand heating better than others? this all depending the system and used materials ,
so when no earth at all a ground driven rod for the unit only will also do the job ....nothing complicated about this
remember.... all can be simple if you can keep it simple ...do not overthink or overdo things ...
good luck all

Draw a diagram of your setup and include the impedance in all legs.
Then you may see how it does not work in fault conditions.

[Khun Paul]

I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of problems with showers can be put into only a few pigeon holes.
Sheer incompetence on installing , Lack of any commonsense in its use, treying to fix the problems without first disconnecting the power .
Properly installed showers whether they heat the water or have an inbuilt pump are fairly simple bits of equipment, only two things can go wrong, water or electric, it is NOT rocket science and you certainly do not need a MA from MIT to install one . Earthing all your electrics is of course important , even more so here , where initial installation of most electrics in the house does NOT use three core cable, just two core. Apart from that all this discussion unless you are a sparky is meaningless as I am more confused than when this post started`. I have known more accidents by people slipping in the showers than having themselves fried electrically

[minimiglia]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

Clearly little product experence here, some are far better than others and I agree with galt he is spot on some are far better than others regardless of there ratings

Ok in simple terms. Put one pint/liter of water in a 1Kw kettle, put one pint/liter of water in a 3 Kw kettle switch them both on at the exact same time and see which one heats the water to boiling first. Does not matter what name/label is on the kettle it is a simple law of physics.

clearly not a lot of experience of Thai showers, that are not always what the label says

[dunroaming]

All good brands such as Mira, Sharp, Panasonic are exactly what the label says there are! It's against the law maybe not here but where they are made to state otherwise! If you want to cut cost and buy the cheaper Thai versions you pay for what you get clearly you are not an experienced buyer or as the girls would say a cheap Charlie. Quality comes at a price but in my opinion safety is paramount and I will stick clear of poorly made unknown generic brands and pick a better brand and model. These also usually last much longer and therefore actually in the long run work out cheaper it's the laws of dunroaming your eye is your merchant and with the internet comes detailed consumer reports on the various options available.

[glalt]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

So, two different brand heaters, both 4,500 watts, same water pump thus the same flow, same plumbing and one is more efficient. Do you really doubt that? You normally get what you pay for and the Panasonic was quite a bit more expensive.

[Drunk Monkey]

When ever ive bought a shower heater unit its always been Panasonic and never had an issue .. they are slightly more expensive but worth it .. my last water heater purchases were 8000w Stiebol Eltron to supply a full house hot water system in kitchen untilty n bathrooms ,,, excellent machines cost 6k each and hooked up to a larger electric cable as recc by Stiebol.

DM

[AlexO]

Glait, buddy, the ability of a shower unit to heat water (even very cold water) is only because of the size of the heating element not the manufacturers name. Its a wee calculation of flow speed over energy in the circuit. Slower flow speed equals higher temperature because of longer transfer of energy, inversely higher flow speeds equals cooler water temperatures. The law of physics says you cannot get more heat from a different manufacturer.

So, two different brand heaters, both 4,500 watts, same water pump thus the same flow, same plumbing and one is more efficient. Do you really doubt that? You normally get what you pay for and the Panasonic was quite a bit more expensive.

There are too many variables (thermostat settings, internal pipework sizes etc) in a shower unit to say one is more efficient than another, fact remains that two heating elements of the 'same' size will provide the same amount of energy transfer to the water. If you are happy with your Panasonic unit 'good on yer'.

[vincemunday]

I’ve got 13 shower units - 10 x Mazuma (British made?) , 1 x Sharp, 1 x Panasonic and one 1 Haier which was probably the cheapest but the best of the bunch, you don’t always get what you pay for.

[glalt]

I’ve got 13 shower units - 10 x Mazuma (British made?) , 1 x Sharp, 1 x Panasonic and one 1 Haier which was probably the cheapest but the best of the bunch, you don’t always get what you pay for.

I had one Sharp and it had the shortest life of any of them. The Mazuma is probably the best heater for the baht. As previously mentioned, the Panasonic has proven, at least to me, to be the most efficient. Directly replacing the Mazuma with the Panasonic, same plumbing, water pump and wiring with the thermostat set to maximum gives hotter water. A Hitachi was the equal of the Panasonic as far as hot water, but I was disappointed with the life of the expensive unit. YMMV.

Maybe I should mention that our village water has so many minerals that even the shower head and bum gun clogs up. The last Hitachi clogged up the shower head with little red balls of something, I don't know what they were. Shortly after that it died. In contrast, the condo water is soft and although the Panasonic shower now gets rarely used, it is more than ten years old.

[AlexO]

I’ve got 13 shower units - 10 x Mazuma (British made?) , 1 x Sharp, 1 x Panasonic and one 1 Haier which was probably the cheapest but the best of the bunch, you don’t always get what you pay for.

I had one Sharp and it had the shortest life of any of them. The Mazuma is probably the best heater for the baht. As previously mentioned, the Panasonic has proven, at least to me, to be the most efficient. Directly replacing the Mazuma with the Panasonic, same plumbing, water pump and wiring with the thermostat set to maximum gives hotter water. A Hitachi was the equal of the Panasonic as far as hot water, but I was disappointed with the life of the expensive unit. YMMV.

Maybe I should mention that our village water has so many minerals that even the shower head and bum gun clogs up. The last Hitachi clogged up the shower head with little red balls of something, I don't know what they were. Shortly after that it died. In contrast, the condo water is soft and although the Panasonic shower now gets rarely used, it is more than ten years old.

Just hit the proverbial nail on the head as far as shower/water heaters are concerned. Thailand's water supplies are notoriously hard due to the amount of limestone in SEA. This causes build ups of deposits on heating elements, inside small bore pipework and so on. The buildup on heating elements is one of the main causes of premature failure as the built up deposits prevent the release of the heat thus the element tends to overheat and fail prematurely. Its also the reason why a new heating element works more efficiently that an old crusty one. If you use predominately stored rainwater there is less contamination of the water and results in the efficient performance of the unit. I am sure there is also a connection with kidney and gall stones in humans due to very hard water (don't quote me on that one)