Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

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Charlieb
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Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by Charlieb » November 20, 2019, 2:52 pm

What are legal ramifications if you do not pay the imposed maintenance fees of a housing estate?

It irritates me that we pay our fees as required by the estate but there are many families that pay nothing! My wife bugs me all the time about why we are paying but her friends are not.

I know in the US that a housing estate can take someone’s house if fee remain unpaid for a long time.

Is there a similar Thai law? I have see info on the web about condo feesbut cannot find much about housing estate fees.



minimiglia
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by minimiglia » November 20, 2019, 4:52 pm

They will never be able to sell with unpaid estate fees, it will be deducted at the land office if sold

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Charlieb
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by Charlieb » November 20, 2019, 7:41 pm

So, if they don’t sell they never have to pay? Puts a hell of a burden of those that do pay since the cost of total maintenance must be paid. If only half of the residents pay, they are paying double to cover those that do not pay.

Can those of you living in estate communities tell what your fees are?

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stattointhailand
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by stattointhailand » November 20, 2019, 7:51 pm

I've paid "bugger all" for the last 15 years ........ although we do pay B240 for refuse collection service a year and about once a year we get asked for B100 towards someone cutting grass etc, but this is offset by the "donation" my misses gets before each election to vote one way or another. Got told by power co a few years back that it would cost about B2000 to get a street light fixed ..... told him where to put his florescent tube, and they came and fixed it anyway a few days later for free

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GT93
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by GT93 » November 21, 2019, 6:20 am

I heard some years ago one of our neighbours paid to get a street light fixed or even installed. I'm not sure if we chipped in. If I had been asked I would have said yes. I'm going to look into whether we have some outstanding fees. I now expect we might. I'll be cursing if it's 20,000 baht or something similar.

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tamada
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by tamada » November 24, 2019, 11:12 am

My dabbling with village associations is limited to home rental in relatively new villages around Pattaya. We had a situation in one village where some residents weren't contributing and garbage collection was 'adjusted' to clearly show those who weren't! The newly formed association had been actively trying to get all parties to sign up since their inception but after a major, free security upgrade with automatic gate pass cards and guards that stopped and checked all cars, they got heavy with the perpetual freeloaders. Some were happy to move their own trash but most had real issues when they either couldn't get a gate card or theirs stopped working. Saw some otherwise fine looking people is fine looking BMW's getting very angry and rude with security guards. Luckily, our landlord was married to a Danish guy and the rental brokered through an excellent, small Thai realtor. When our first garbage collection was missed, I messaged the agent who contacted the landlord (in Denmark) who provided the documentary proof of what they had agreed to and paid for when they bought the place. The agent copied this to the association, books amended and garbage collection was restored. Mrs tam got a free gift pack of Nescafe red cup from the agent!

My understanding is that until a project/village is 100% sold, the developer is still responsible for the upkeep of the common spaces and facilities either free of charge or at a low, nominal rate as agreed in the sales agreement. Once it's fully subscribed, the owner assists with the formation of the 'homeowners association' but it is that association that is tasked with getting all homeowners onboard with all bills paid and complying with the new articles of association. The issues arise with older developments where some properties may have already changed ownership during the pre-association years or they are rented out either by the property owner, or the developer or agents thereof and nobody knows the real legal status of any claims for any payments or the providence of any accounts. Others may have never been made aware of their formal obligations as a homeowner and get a strop on when hit with demands for back payments. I mean SOMEONE was paying for your rubbish to be removed these past 8 or 10 years, no?

As a footnote, I heard that it was common practice for developers to retain 100% ownership of any pool and clubhouse facilities even after the development topped out. Thus they have a revenue stream from what is assumed the highest-use facility as landlords for any snack shops or restaurants adjoining the pool as well as dictating public access and charging for it. Or they charge the association a set 'rental' fee that the association offsets by being allowed to sublet facilities and charge for access. Depending on the developer, some pools remain well maintained, clean and usable but it's not unknown that when a major repair is needed, say a new pool pump, the pool can quickly spiral into lack of use and further disrepair.

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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by glalt » November 24, 2019, 1:33 pm

I think it's similar to a condo. You need to research what you are getting into before you make a decision. The condo association where I bought is comprised of owners and not some crooked company hired to take care of things.

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FrazeeDK
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by FrazeeDK » November 24, 2019, 7:42 pm

well, there's the Kreng Jai thing where those running the Associations aren't going to confront those that don't pay the fees. Easier to just dun those that are honest and pay on time... Actually no different from what I experienced in the States in Florida.. The Condo development where I rented had a helluva time getting people to pay their Condo monthly maintenance fees. Taking legal action was too costly so, they just jacked up the fees on those that did pay... I can't imagine a Homeowners Association board striding around the development beating on doors to get that money.. There would have to be something as mentioned where you can take something away, be it trash collection or even better the denied access at the gate... That is a true attention getter.
Dave

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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by rct » September 6, 2020, 4:49 am

In replies to Charlie, I expected to see a range of low fees paid at various estates around Udon.

Le Cellini common fees probably the highest in town and worth every baht. Originally in 2008 all owners paid 36,000 per year based on running costs for 26 houses. In another old thread, a poster back then thought I was crazy paying this much.

Costs went up since then , and we also later adjusted to paying based on size of land plot, as some owners bought 2 plots but paid for one house. Now 24 houses fully built out. My plot 10% bigger than some, I pay around 55,000 baht per year.

What we get: decent security 24 hours per day, street lights, beautiful pool and air conditioned clubhouse with gym, all properly maintained. Our guards also sweep the streets daily, of fallen leaves coming from the shady canopy of trees lining the street.

Peace of mind !!!

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Charlieb
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by Charlieb » September 6, 2020, 6:41 am

We have all of the above, security, street lights, swept streets, pool, gym, wide streets to drive on, trash collection, etc.
We pay about 12,000 per year. So I guess it is not too bad. The facilities are probably not as fancy as Le Cellini but adequate.
I am still a bit bugged by those that don’t pay but have learned to just pay mine and accept it. As said above, peace of mind.

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Khun Paul
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by Khun Paul » September 6, 2020, 7:10 am

When I came here, I too looked at various estates and found what many of you are describing, fees were being paid, but those that did not , nothing ev er happened, that was when I made the decision, never to buy a house in an estate. Like the UK and other places, the Maintenance company inefficient, raising the fees to offset unpaid fees etc. More so here, too often visit friends at night, gatehouse empty or on more than one occasion, zero checks or asleep.

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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by deankham » September 6, 2020, 5:08 pm

I can't fault the maintenance and security at Sittarom estate.

They were quite clever that when buying a house you had to pay for several years fees in advance (think it was 5 years). Now everything is finished they have been starting to charge the yearly fee depending in what zone you are until everyone will be onto the yearly plan in another year or so.

They allow you to pay monthly, quarterly or yearly with discounts for quarterly and bigger discount for yearly.

We have full time security on both the front and rear entrances and they installed electronic barriers couple years ago with each property getting 2 smart cards. Without the smart card you need to leave ID at the gate house to gain entry.

They had some problems with people not paying so what they did was to put stickers on the bin / garbage area of each house. No sticker and the twice a week garbage collection times would not pick up your garbage. Took a few months then everyone seemed to pay up.

Is a few empty houses so am assuming they are missing payments collections on a small percentage of houses but guessing they base there calculations on less than 100% occupancy. I did read though that in the terms and conditions they can seize your house against unpaid maintenance fees. No idea how enforceable this is mind you.

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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by rct » September 7, 2020, 5:24 am

Stittarom fees apparently 9120 baht per year if paid in one shot. According to Dean's classified ad house for sale.

Bigger projects can spread the costs across many owners, perhaps even 100 to 200 owners. Sittarom seems to have a handle on collections. Community financials are important to know, especially if buying 2nd hand in an established area. Ditto if buying a condo. Owners must know detailed running costs and have annual reports and meetings. Raise rates if more needed.

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kopkei
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by kopkei » September 7, 2020, 10:09 am

i can understand when living in an estate you will have to pay a maintenance fee according to the services delivered ,55.000 baht is a little bit steep to me though as are the la cellini house prices , i always thought they would come with golden faucets everywhere :D , ridiculous , we have lived baan noak , and now muang udon,not in an estate , and do not worry about any safety problems , mostly because of or simple way of life not showing off what is mostly main source of attracting problems, we also have a small pool @ a costs 4 year maintenance fee @la cellini...
i feel more safe in Thailand as i would in my birth country now...
now all this will vary of course according to your preferences/anxiety? and available budget ,
what is important is that you are happy and more important ....stay happy ... ;)

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Charlieb
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Re: Housing Estate Maintenance Fees

Post by Charlieb » September 7, 2020, 10:43 am

In the states the town I lived in had a good police force, street lights, trash collections, etc. My city taxes were a hell of a lot more than these estate fees. Nothing is free!

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