Israel Hamas ceasefire - phased hostage release & IDF withdrawal

[jackspratt]

As reported today on the BBC, reports from Gaza (Hamas) claim that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF. After they finish shooting they filter back into IDF controlled areas and hide until they want to come out and shoot again.
I suppose one should be open-minded and give credence to this latest little gem from Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c79e0zxy2lro

Funnily enough, the above BBC report doesn't mention:

- Hamas being quoted as claiming "that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF."

- the same gunmen "hid(ing) until they want to come out and shoot again"

But it does mention, rather relevantly IMO:

It comes days after Israel's prime minister acknowledged that it was arming Palestinian clans in Gaza who were opposed to Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo

[AlexO]

As reported today on the BBC, reports from Gaza (Hamas) claim that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF. After they finish shooting they filter back into IDF controlled areas and hide until they want to come out and shoot again.
I suppose one should be open-minded and give credence to this latest little gem from Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c79e0zxy2lro

Funnily enough, the above BBC report doesn't mention:

- Hamas being quoted as claiming "that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF."

- the same gunmen "hid(ing) until they want to come out and shoot again"

But it does mention, rather relevantly IMO:

It comes days after Israel's prime minister acknowledged that it was arming Palestinian clans in Gaza who were opposed to Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo

Well done that man.
Giving Palestinian clans weapons to combat the hated Hamas hardly makes them Pro-Israeli. For me its a positive step in allowing the scourge of the Hamas terror group to be opposed by the people who have been the most affected by the barbaric actions of this death cult.
Hopefully his is just a small step to a better future for all.

[tamada]

As reported today on the BBC, reports from Gaza (Hamas) claim that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF. After they finish shooting they filter back into IDF controlled areas and hide until they want to come out and shoot again.
I suppose one should be open-minded and give credence to this latest little gem from Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c79e0zxy2lro

Funnily enough, the above BBC report doesn't mention:

- Hamas being quoted as claiming "that the people firing upon the crowds at overflowing food warehouses are actually pro-Israeli Palestinians who have been armed by the IDF."

- the same gunmen "hid(ing) until they want to come out and shoot again"

But it does mention, rather relevantly IMO:

It comes days after Israel's prime minister acknowledged that it was arming Palestinian clans in Gaza who were opposed to Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo

Well done that man.
Giving Palestinian clans weapons to combat the hated Hamas hardly makes them Pro-Israeli. For me its a positive step in allowing the scourge of the Hamas terror group to be opposed by the people who have been the most affected by the barbaric actions of this death cult.
Hopefully his is just a small step to a better future for all.

Since when, in the torrid history of the middle east, with their disparate clans and religious schisms, has arming any of these fiefdoms reaped any lasting benefit?

Unless Bibi has included a cogent plan to resolve the two-state issue, including a generous buy-back scheme for the weapons, in the unlikely event that the IDF totally destroys Hamas, these freshly armed clans will revert to sort.

[AlexO]

Well done that man.
Giving Palestinian clans weapons to combat the hated Hamas hardly makes them Pro-Israeli. For me its a positive step in allowing the scourge of the Hamas terror group to be opposed by the people who have been the most affected by the barbaric actions of this death cult.
Hopefully his is just a small step to a better future for all.

Since when, in the torrid history of the middle east, with their disparate clans and religious schisms, has arming any of these fiefdoms reaped any lasting benefit?

Unless Bibi has included a cogent plan to resolve the two-state issue, including a generous buy-back scheme for the weapons, in the unlikely event that the IDF totally destroys Hamas, these freshly armed clans will revert to sort.
[/quote]

Your probably correct Tam but there 'is' a rising tide of dissent against the Hamas brutal reign over the Palestinian population.
It could well be the lessor of the two evils arming dissident groups to show some form of support for their cause.
There does not seem to be any real shortage of weapons available in Gaza but most are in the hands off or supply controlled by Hamas so handing over captured AK's etc to enemies of my enemies might help the final outcome.

[jackspratt]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

[AlexO]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

This local gangster is a military superstar, he with his few hundred supporters are entirely responsible for the ambush and theft of aid convoys into a Gaza under the protection of 10's of thousands of trained murderous thugs who while fighting a war against the IDF do not have the capability to protect the "teaspoons worth" of aid entering Gaza and 'helping fill' UN warehouses with badly needed food for the population. The has been brought to the forefront of everyone's attention by the many media announcements relating to this made by the pro Hamas UN (must be a secret news channel) in their efforts to have Hamas left in power in Gaza.
There is one thing claiming to be open-minded, but to openly deny the actions of Hamas?
Whats next? It was a secret group of ultra-right wing Israeli's who carried out the 7th Oct attacks?

[tamada]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer "

(pick your own quote attribution)

[jackspratt]

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer "

(pick your own quote attribution)

בנימין נתניהו

[AlexO]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

In an effort to promote an open-mindset it would be wonderful if the hundreds of pro Hamas press currently running around Gaza reporting to the world everything the IDF does against the Hamas fighters and their innocent supporters could just once show evidence supporting this outlandish claim. Just show the bodies of drivers and trucks hijacked by the evil militia in ill fitting helmets. Show us the starving people weeping and wailing around the empty aid trucks all the while screaming that their God is Great. Show us how whole convoys of trucks are left to wend their way through Gaza all the while making up their own minds where they will deliver the Aid.
Trying to be open minded but do not believe this means remove brain completely.

[jackspratt]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

In an effort to promote an open-mindset it would be wonderful if the hundreds of pro Hamas press currently running around Gaza reporting to the world everything the IDF does against the Hamas fighters and their innocent supporters could just once show evidence supporting this outlandish claim. Just show the bodies of drivers and trucks hijacked by the evil militia in ill fitting helmets. Show us the starving people weeping and wailing around the empty aid trucks all the while screaming that their God is Great. Show us how whole convoys of trucks are left to wend their way through Gaza all the while making up their own minds where they will deliver the Aid.
Trying to be open minded but do not believe this means remove brain completely.

Why are you quoting me as writing nonsense I never wrote?

As for evidence, it is wasted on those with closed minds who just ignore or dismiss it.

[AlexO]

Nice bloke the IDF is cosying up to in Gaza.

The gangster Israel is arming to fight Hamas
His group is notorious for stealing aid and is widely disliked by Palestinians

.......Since the Gaza war began in October 2023, Mr Abu Shabab has found a new business. The UN says he was a culprit behind the robberies of humanitarian-aid convoys last year. His gunmen ambushed dozens of lorries and allegedly killed several drivers. Some of his backers portray him as a Gazan Robin Hood, stealing aid to distribute to the poor (he claims he did it to help families in need). He is anything but: his group either kept the stolen aid or sold it at inflated prices, with little, if any, handed out to needy Gazans.

If Mr Abu Shabab’s motives are grubby, they are at least easy to understand. He is neither an ideologue nor a do-gooder; he is a criminal. Joining forces with Israel, at a time when Israel is the only conduit for aid into Gaza, is a logical next step for him......

.......That Israel must rely on such groups at all is an indictment of its own strategy, or lack thereof, in Gaza. Mr Netanyahu has refused to talk about who might rule the enclave after the war. He rejects any role for the Palestinian Authority, which runs parts of the West Bank. His advisers have mused about Arab peacekeepers and a government of local notables. But after nearly two years of war they have come up with almost nothing, save for a tiny militia led by a gangster in an ill-fitting helmet.
https://archive.ph/JZwFh

In an effort to promote an open-mindset it would be wonderful if the hundreds of pro Hamas press currently running around Gaza reporting to the world everything the IDF does against the Hamas fighters and their innocent supporters could just once show evidence supporting this outlandish claim. Just show the bodies of drivers and trucks hijacked by the evil militia in ill fitting helmets. Show us the starving people weeping and wailing around the empty aid trucks all the while screaming that their God is Great. Show us how whole convoys of trucks are left to wend their way through Gaza all the while making up their own minds where they will deliver the Aid.
Trying to be open minded but do not believe this means remove brain completely.

Why are you quoting me as writing nonsense I never wrote?

As for evidence, it is wasted on those with closed minds who just ignore or dismiss it.

Pratty, its not evidence, its ramblings without a shred of evidence attached.
Good to see your being open minded.

[jackspratt]

As I said, and obviously not just talking about this report:

As for evidence, it is wasted on those with closed minds who just ignore or dismiss it.

Soldier C anyone?

Ambushed ambulance anyone?

etc etc, ad infinitum .......

[AlexO]

As I said, and obviously not just talking about this report:

As for evidence, it is wasted on those with closed minds who just ignore or dismiss it.

Soldier C anyone?

Ambushed ambulance anyone?

etc etc, ad infinitum .......

Evidence old bean, evidence. The one thing missing in all your hand wringers posts.
Genocide, population starvation, no hospitals or ambulances because of fuel shortages, no tunnels under hospitals and schools. Any need to go on.

[Udon Map]

Did someone say something about tunnels under hospitals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVNQhDspr8

[AlexO]

Genocide in Gaza, another fallacy.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i8socp50YnY

[jackspratt]

Unlike UM, I believe in evaluating the source, as well as the information, and the above linked YouTube clip is a classic demonstration of why that is important.

The clip is titled "War Expert Dismantles Joe Rogan’s Claim of a Palestinian Genocide"

This is the "War Expert" - you decide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_Hughes

[tamada]

Unlike UM, I believe in evaluating the source, as well as the information, and the above linked YouTube clip is a classic demonstration of why that is important.

The clip is titled "War Expert Dismantles Joe Rogan’s Claim of a Palestinian Genocide"

This is the "War Expert" - you decide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_Hughes

The description of "War Expert" is the choice of a third-party YouTuber who has "sound bited" part of a Joe Rogan Experience podcast. I seriously doubt Coleman Hughes would consider himself a war expert.

It's a good JRE podcast by the way, especially when Joes's guests, like Coleman Hughes, keep him on-topic and don't let him jump down the frequent rabbit holes which must make his editor's life a bit easier.

Thanks for sharing Hughes's wiki. It fits with your enduring UM personae of trying to shoot the messenger whilst never offering why you have decided their veracity is questionable. This continual, unqualified assumption of somehow holding a higher moral ground than anyone else is tedious for many of us, so it must be terribly exhausting for yourself.

But we understand that in this instance, re-quoting the Gaza Health Ministry on how they tabulate the number of victims wouldn't be a good look. So, what's the alternative?

[AlexO]

Unlike UM, I believe in evaluating the source, as well as the information, and the above linked YouTube clip is a classic demonstration of why that is important.

The clip is titled "War Expert Dismantles Joe Rogan’s Claim of a Palestinian Genocide"

This is the "War Expert" - you decide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_Hughes

Gaza's Ministry of Health? You have evaluated them and found that they are the Honest John's of this conflict? Wow, just wow.

[Udon Map]

Unlike UM, I believe in evaluating the source, as well as the information, and the above linked YouTube clip is a classic demonstration of why that is important.

I think that I wasn't clear. I don't consider the source as to facts. Statements/allegations by Hamas or the IDF are not facts in and of themselves.

[jackspratt]

Gaza's Ministry of Health? You have evaluated them and found that they are the Honest John's of this conflict? Wow, just wow.

Nope - I have evaluated Mr Hughes, and assessed his credibility as a "War Expert" (based on the clip) to make judgements on the number of casualties in April 2024 ie well over 12 months ago. Perhaps you should have done the same, and then thought about the extra 23,000 deaths since that time.

ps I don't believe I have ever stated that I have found the GMoH to be the "Honest Johns" in the conflict. But feel free to show where I have.

IMO, there is not much difference in credibility between the GMoH propaganda, and the IDF propaganda, both of which, of course, includes casualty figures.