Udonhoward is correct about the grinding poverty in Laos. The minority people are really hard hit, but the rural Lao farmers are also very poor. I was struck by the number of school-age children not in school.

I met a couple of university student on my bus rides and both of them stated that their goal after getting their degree was to do volunteer work in rural villages to try and upgrade the life of the people.

Furthermore, my observation is that the women marry at a fairly young age, 18-20, as I saw many young ladies with babies strapped to them both in the villages and the cities.

Laos, in many ways, reminds me of Chiang Mai and the surrounding area in the mid-to-late 1970s, and Burma in the 1980s and early 1990s.

However, as Khun Parrot mentions, there are some people driving heavy-duty expensive cars around the capital, and, also in Savannakhet. It was the Chinese Lao driving these cars in Savannakhet. I don't know about the capabilities of the computers and other electronic devices owned by Lao people. I do know that internet cafe service can be very slow and sporadic and, in some towns, like Xiang Khouang and Nong Khiaw, there were no internet cafes.

It should be added that Laos can be a dangerous place owing to unexploded bombs dropped by the U.S. during the Vietnam War.

Even the guidebooks noted the effect of the U.S. bombing:-

'Luang Namtha...was razed to the ground.
...Salavan was...all but obliterated during the war by B-52 strikes.
Xiang Khuang (Phonsavan) has gradually emerged...since the total devastation of the region in the Second Indochina War.
...a monsoon of bombs taxed this town (Muang Khoun) so heavily....'

And, so on.

I mentioned staying at the Luang Prabang Legend in this ancient capital (In the 15th century the Lan Chang individual also ruled the Lanna Kingdom centred at Chiang Mai). I forgot to mention that the owner of this hotel is a Sino-Thai from Khon Kaen. He and his family are very friendly and very nice.

The day after my tiring walk to Phou (mountain, hill) Si, I visited the Royal National Museum, which houses a number of royal treasures at the old palace. Also on the grounds is a vat (wat, temple) containing the important Buddhist image, the Pha Bang. I think it originally resided in Chiang Mai. You are not permitted to photograph the image.

In addition, you are not allowed to take a camera into the former palace, but must leave it, backpacks and anything else in lockers provided. The Palace is most impressive as is the sight of young ladies who work there lying asleep on the floor near the throne and an individual's bed. This was about an hour before morning closing so they probably figured the tour groups had gone and no-one else would be showing up. When one of the girls opened her eyes, I told her she would be more comfortable lying on the royal bed.

There are many things to do and see around Luang Prabang. Within the city it is possible to reach these places on your own. But to get to places outside the town, most people get to their destination through a tour agency. One place I visited through a tour agency was to Kouang Si Waterfalls.

To get there, the group took a mini-van. I learnt that sitting in a seat far from the exit doors meant that my body would be cramped. Besides I was sitting beside an overweight Australian who liked spreading his legs. I remained stuck in this unpleasant position for the 45 minutes or so it took to reach the waterfalls.

Upon arrival the driver said, 'return in three hours' and left us to go our own merry way. Again, it was a steep climb to the top. There are many levels to the waterfall, and the water is a beautiful blue. At various points on the way to the top, one can go for a swim. Although there were signs advising women that bikinis were verboten, the European gals were wearing exactly that. No complaints here. The Asian women (Lao, Thai, Chinese) went swimming in the traditional Asian way - fully clothed.

Many more tour groups had arrived by this time.

About half-way up to the top, the rains started and it turned into a downpour very quickly. Still the beauty of the place is remarkable and keeps one forging ahead not to mention the thought of gawking at German and French girls in their bikinis.

Be sure to visit the Kouang Si Waterfall if you ever visit Luang Prabang. There is another waterfall, Tad Se, that you can visit in combination with an elephant ride and visits to some tribal villages but there were only two other customers that day, and the tour agency wanted $60. I passed on the opportunity, and went my own way elsewhere.

So despite the rain, the number of tourists and the painful ride to the waterfall, it was a thoroughly enjoyable day.

I have lived in Lao for 9 years and still do so. I would much rather live there than in Thailand. The people are friendlier and mor honest than the Thai.
Yes, people in rural areas are poor, however they are largely subsistence farmers. In the larger towns there are some very rich people. The cost of land in certain areas has literally quadrupled since I have been here. People sell land and buy a pickup; that is why there are so many on the roads.
There IS decent health care in Vientiane and Luang Prabang, though if I needed an major operation I would head for Udon of Khon Khaen.
No, Lao is not dangerous - only certain parts have uxos. These are primarily around Phonsavahn and the Plain of Jars - the site of the Ho Chi Minh trail. Despite the fact that the US bombed the hell out of these areas and lied about it to the world, there is no animosity to US citizens.

Very interesting stories about Laos the only two things that I had in my mind about the place was the Journo's that went missing there many years ago and the recent plane crash i have only lived in Udon for six months but plan to visit very soon.

Question Rufus you have lived there for 9 years what type of visa do you have and what is the compliance required as an ongoing visa, I know I could of googled but it is better from some one that lives there.

rufus wrote:I have lived in Lao for 9 years and still do so. I would much rather live there than in Thailand. The people are friendlier and mor honest than the Thai.
Yes, people in rural areas are poor, however they are largely subsistence farmers. In the larger towns there are some very rich people. The cost of land in certain areas has literally quadrupled since I have been here. People sell land and buy a pickup; that is why there are so many on the roads.
There IS decent health care in Vientiane and Luang Prabang, though if I needed an major operation I would head for Udon of Khon Khaen.
No, Lao is not dangerous - only certain parts have uxos. These are primarily around Phonsavahn and the Plain of Jars - the site of the Ho Chi Minh trail. Despite the fact that the US bombed the hell out of these areas and lied about it to the world, there is no animosity to US citizens.

Yes, in my short time in Laos, I found the people to be friendly and welcoming to everyone. There are no hard feelings that I could see or hear toward the U.S.

There were certain areas on the Plain of Jars (Xieng Luang [Phonsavan]) that have not been cleared of uxos. One restaurant owner with a sense of humour had three unexploded bombs outside labelled, the father, the son and the holy ghost. I heard that solo travellers should be wary of banditry if they travel alone near Muang Sing going toward the China border. But, I found the people of Laos to be the friendliest I have met in my travels. And, they have a great sense of humour. Yes, they are very honest, sincere and helpful.

Savannakhet and Pakse seem to have health care facilities, but I have no idea of the quality of the care there.

macca46, I have a business visa and a work permit. The business visa gives me unlimited entry into Lao.
The Govt and organisations such as Milsearch do land clearing. When I worked at one of the mines we had a detnation afternoon every Thursday afternoon for uxos that were found.

I forgot to mention that the former Royal Palace Museum also contains a massive statue of former individual Sisavang Vattana.

Touts do exist in Luang Prabang and many of them hang around the Mekong riverside attempting to get punters to go for a boat ride for what I think was an excessive price. For instance, one guy wanted to take me to the Pak Ou Caves for 500,000 kip. He said the cost was high owing to the fact I would be his only guest. But, I was acquainted by tour prices enough by this time to know I could go with a group for 25,000 kip. And that is exactly what I did and paid.

This tour consisted of two middle-aged couples, myself and a 30-year old Japanese lady who I befriended. The rain was constant but not too bad. To board the narrow boat, one had to avoid getting stuck in the mud by walking on a thin plank to the craft. This was done successfully; however, I banged my noggin on the low roof while entering. This was the first in a long list of hitting my head on roofs, fans, low-riding signs, etc.

It was a two-hour ride to the caves running against the river current. The caves (Tham Ting and Tham Phoum) are located where the Mekong and Nam Ou rivers meet. They contain many statues of the Buddha, and are places of worship. On the way back, we stopped at the Whisky village (Ban Xang Hai). Only the Japanese girl sampled the 50% drink as she was cold and wet from the rain. I gave her my jacket for the ride back.

The ride back took just over 40 minutes as we were moving with the current. Much to my chagrin, the narrow plank had been swallowed up by the water so we had to leap off the boat and hope that we landed on a clump of grass rather than in the muddy ground. After that we scrambled up the slope for about 25 yards before we could get onto the steps leading to the top.

It should be noted that when I closed the door of my hotel room for the first time there was a message that was repeated in many hotels (not the Chinese-run hotels) in Laos. The message is something like this, 'Do not bring firearms, narcotics and members of the opposite sex into your room. If you violate this warning, you will have a fight with me'. It was signed by a member of the police force.

Nonetheless, on the edges of the Night Market, tuk-tuk drivers will ask you if you want to meet a Lao girl. They are not persistent. My answer was that I did not want to have a fight with the police. They told me not to worry. I responded that I was too old for such delightful pleasure. I can't remember, but the guy might have said the cost for an hour or less of fun was 150,000 kip (600 baht ?).

After a few days, people began to recognise me so we would engage in conversation. I guess you could say I can speak functional Lao now. But I had to ask many times, how do you say this or that in Lao. Luang Prabang was a good start for my trip to Laos. The next stop is Nong Khiaw.

rufus wrote:I have lived in Lao for 9 years and still do so.

Interesting post.

How do you deal with things such as visas? Are the arrangements similar to Thailand?

What about things like satellite TV and internet speeds?

Is it fairly easy to buy farang food in supermarkets?

I've visited Vientiane but wasn't concerned with the above being an occasional visitor.

Earnest wrote:

rufus wrote:I have lived in Lao for 9 years and still do so.

Interesting post.

How do you deal with things such as visas? Are the arrangements similar to Thailand?

What about things like satellite TV and internet speeds?

Is it fairly easy to buy farang food in supermarkets?

I've visited Vientiane but wasn't concerned with the above being an occasional visitor.

As of Jan -2013 this is Visa Requirements To Retire in Laos:

http://www.retireinasia.com/visa-requir ... e-in-laos/

Thanks, Dui Dui, good read. Interesting how farangs can't drive in Laos if they're on a tourist visa.

Foreigners can drive motorcycles and scooters, and pedal bicycles.

The nice point is they drive on the same side of the road as in Canada, but not the same as in Thailand or the United Kingdom.

I'll try and answer a few questions:

I found internet connectivity was terrible. Even with supposedly 3G, I often couldn't even use SKYPE, which was a major problem for me. Fax machines are few and far between. I found the best way to send a fax was to go to the telephone company office, very reliable and cheap (about $1.00\page).

Farang food is available, there are several mini markets in Vientiane that cater to foreign tastes. Between them you can get almost anything, but foods for foreigners is expensive, you have to shop around and compare prices.

On a positive note, good French wine is widely available, and very affordable! Also, excellent French bread is found everywhere, a legacy of the French occupation I guess.

Laos has some strange laws:

Technically, there is a permanent 10:00 PM curfew, but I never saw any evidence that it was enforced.

It's illegal to drive with your auto or motorcycle lights on during the daytime (?). For safety sake, I always did anyway, but I would switch them off when I saw a police checkpoint coming up. I got stopped for it once.

Oh, there are more or less permanent police checkpoints. If they're on duty, they'll pull over anyone, and find a reason to "fine" you. No helmet? Registration papers not in order? Whatever... You pay a small fine (20,000 kip), and you're on you're on your way. I actually argued my way out of it a couple times, they'd give up when they realized I lived there and wasn't interested in paying them.

It is illegal for foreigners to have sex with a Lao woman (to whom they are not married). This IS enforced, and the police will raid apartments frequented by foreigners, unannounced in the middle of the night. There is a warning poster about this posted in the US Embassy. If caught, foreigners are fined and deported. (This happened to a student of mine). This makes Nong Khai a popular weekend destination for couples

In spite of it's quirks, I'd highly recommend Vientiane for a visit, it's got great nightlife and excellent restaurants.

Earnest wrote:Thanks, Dui Dui, good read. Interesting how farangs can't drive in Laos if they're on a tourist visa.

I think you will find that Farangs can drive in Laos on a tourist visa I have done this several times and had my name put on the insurance Lao side. Never been stopped by Lao police but have stopped to ask directions and never been asked even to show my license. By the way this was in my Thai car and also if you can not drive as a tourist over there how do all the Thais get over with there trucks/cars.

Yes, westerners can drive on a tourist visa.

How do you deal with things such as visas? Are the arrangements similar to Thailand?
See above. I work here.

I don't know when UdonHoward lived here, but it must have been a while ago.

What about things like satellite TV and internet speeds?
Satellite TV is fine. Internet is expensive, but we have 4G, though very dear. I believe Thailand does not yet. You cn get decent connection speeds and Skype is rarely a problem. Most internet cafes have fax machines and I have never had a problem in sending a fax.

Is it fairly easy to buy farang food in supermarkets?
Very easy. There are a number of supermarkets that cater to western palates and an excellent cheese shop - Scoobydoo.
Foreign food is about the same price as in Thailand, though your average street food is a bit dearer than in Thailand.
Wine is very well priced and of course we do not have silly regulations which prohibit alcohol being sold at certain times.

"Technically, there is a permanent 10:00 PM curfew"
Actually it is 23.00 not 22.00. There are many places that stay open much later.

"It is illegal for foreigners to have *** with a Lao woman (to whom they are not married)." This used to be the case but is not really enforced now at all. It might still be in rural areas.

My plan was to take a slow boat up the Nam Ou to Nong Khiaw. It was expected to take 8+ hours; however, owing to the heavy rains the river was not navigable in three places so I ended up in a mini-van with 10 other foreigners. The journey, through some magnificent scenery, took just over 3 hours.

I do not possess words to describe the beauty of Nong Khiaw. I stayed at the Vongmany Guesthouse with a room that opened up to two high mountains.The view was stunning. At times it was enough to sit on the veranda and just look at the view.

The Guesthouse also has a restaurant, which serves western, Lao and Thai food. One specialty was local river seaweed that was delicious. By the way, western food is available almost everywhere in restaurants in Laos. Hamburgers are around 50,000 kip. But, I never had any of that.

It was my hope to go on a trek to the nearby waterfalls but this idea went awry when the tour company said it was designed for younger more agile trekkers as the climbing and descent would wreak havoc with my knees. So, he brought out a brochure that had a tour for 'old people', yes, those were the words, and it consisted of a ride to the Pathok Caves about 2.5-3 kms. away. I declined the offer and walked through the old town, which seemed to go on and on forever until I got to the bus station and turned back. Many of the people I passed shouted out 'sabai dee (hello, welcome)', and I chatted with some of them.

The next day I decided to walk to the Pathok Caves. It was really hot and by the time I was three-quarters of the way there, I was wilting in the sun. It must have something to do with my age and the state of my knees. At this point, a Lao man around 40 invited me to hop on his motorcycle and he drove me the rest of the way. The sign at the entrance asked that a ticket be paid for and then one can wander about at one's own speed. But, there was no-one in sight to collect the kip so I marched on until I got to a fast-flowing stream. Now, I had not known this obstacle would hinder my journey. Hmmmm. Leeches abound in Lao waters, and I was wearing long pants, socks and running shoes.

Meanwhile, I noted there were hundreds of butterflies fluttering around the bushes and flowers. Maybe I was dizzy from the heat but it seemed that the butterflies were attacking me. This cannot be possible, can it? After 30 minutes or so of this, I decided to return and not venture over the stream onto the caves where locals hid when the U.S. planes flew overhead during the Vietnam War.

As the guidebook states, '...the scenery becomes gradually more dramatic, with limestone karsts rising around you.' One passes 4 or 5 villages on the way, and you can get a good look at local life during the walk.

Later in the evening I walked over by the bridge that separates the new from the old town. The bridge is a gathering point for friends to meet, for young men to eye the girls and vice-versa.

Under the bridge I noticed 4 women gathering something. I could not tell if they were hand-fishing or gathering some plant-like vegetables. I yelled down to them, and they invited me to join them, but I was not dressed properly to be gathering food in waist-deep water. It turns out they were collecting plants of some kind.

Night comes early to Nong Khiaw, and this small town has little to offer the tourist looking for nighttime entertainment. That was okay as my old body went to sleep by 9 anyway. Even the opportunity to watch Lao luk thung and lum on tv was not enough to keep me awake.

My neighbours consisted of a lesbian couple - French and Korean - who found their own way to entertain themselves with a minimum of cries of joy and pain. 555+

The owner of Vongmany, his wife, their sister-in-law and their young children were great hosts. The wife eventually wheedled the e-mail address of my son from me while introducing her 20-year old niece. I kept asking her if she wanted my e-mail address for any desperate Nong Khiaw female friends, but she kept saying no, just the address of your son. 555+

reddevil wrote:I think you will find that Farangs can drive in Laos on a tourist visa I have done this several times and had my name put on the insurance Lao side. Never been stopped by Lao police but have stopped to ask directions and never been asked even to show my license. By the way this was in my Thai car and also if you can not drive as a tourist over there how do all the Thais get over with there trucks/cars.

There you go, I stand corrected.

I agree with Rufus about the satellite tv. It was everywhere through the places I visited including very poor villages.

I do not know much about the telephone system as I bought a cheap Lao Telecom just for placing and receiving calls. Almost all of the Lao I saw on buses had a telephone of some kind. Samsung seemed to be reserved for young people and I only saw a few with it. Unitel or something like that was the most widespread in use among the people. This, remember, is just an observation when riding the bus.

Peanut butter is more expensive in Laos than in Thailand but the French bread, which is really good, is not expensive at all. I only really went to one grocery store like Tops. It was in Pakse and there were a fair number of western items.

Ah yes, this is what I read.

Retirees staying in Laos on a tourism visa are also officially forbidden from using a motor vehicle in the country or applying for a driver’s license. As with many of the other regulations in Laos, this rule is also somewhat flexible and dependent on the mood of police – many foreign tourists in Laos buy cars and drive without issues.

http://www.retireinasia.com/visa-requir ... e-in-laos/

Many thanks for the info, chaps. Interesting how they have 4G up and running.

Laan Yaa Mo, great report. I enjoy reading this.

Thanks. Laos was great. I haven't had this much fun and adventure since I was in my 20s many, many moons ago.