Are there any lepidopterists' on here?

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 26, 2012, 8:01 pm

Can I, please, start by saying what I know about butterflies & moths could be written on the back of a postage stamp in 10ft high letters, so if I'm making a fool of myself so be it!

About 2 and a half years ago I moved onto a development, close to Udon Airport, I've become fascinated by what I think are none nocturnal moths, which appear for about 3 months of the year.

These can be are very large, with a wingspan of up to around 8 or 9 inches and a body that is thicker than a man's thumb.

Those that I have seen all have a basic dark wing/body colour (it could be black/dark grey/dark brown or dark green) which, sometimes (the body) appears to be camouflaged in the way that a second world was bomber was, with taupe being the alternative colour.

Others (so I think cannot be the same species) have, splashes of yellow on, either, the wings or body.

One trait that they all have in common is that they do not flutter and fly more like birds.

This means they flap their wings (2 or 3 times) and then glide, whilst also being prepared to fly above the level of the poles providing support for the electricity cables.

One point I have not mentioned is that they all have "swallow" tails but would appear to be much, much larger than Swallow Tail Moths found in Thailand.

Does anyone have any idea what they are?

Any help will be much appreciated.

Post by **Shado** » July 26, 2012, 8:29 pm

Might be an Atlas Moth.

Post by **lepidoptra** » July 26, 2012, 8:48 pm

Zoomzoom,
South east Asia is well known for the abundance of moths and butterflies. Some of the moths are rarely seen as they fly at night are magnificent and belong to the silk moth family of the Saturniidae group The largest moth found in Thailand is the Attacus Atlas moth which can have a wingspan of up to 12 inches. Thailand is also home to the Moon moths which belong to the same group and have long tails. These silk moths are from the old world and have no proboscis( tongue tube) so they do not feed and only live a few days feeding on the fat from when when they were caterpillars. When they fly I can only describe as ' lopping along' The second largest groups are the hawkmoths Sphingidae. They fly fast and are often mistaken for bats. The Orleander hawkmoth is very common and a beautiful olive green with yellowish brown markings. Wingspan of about 5 inches. They do feed on the nectar of flowers. There are many sites on the internet which describes and photo's the different types. I have been told that the most densely population for butterflies and moths is around the Chang Mai area.
best wishes

Post by **parrot** » July 26, 2012, 8:50 pm

We get atlas moths every year........the caterpillars feed off of our santol trees and no other. The caterpillars are huge.......one was in our tree a few days ago.....easy to spot as they leave a pile of droppings down below.
Each year in Dec or Jan our wassana วาสนา plant flowers and attracts hummingbird-like moths. They're half the size of my pinkie, dart in and out of the flowers, hover in the air, and have big feathery antennae. I swore they were hummingbirds.....but I've been told by bird fanciers that there are none in Thailand.

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » July 26, 2012, 9:11 pm

parrot wrote: Each year in Dec or Jan our wassana วาสนา plant flowers and attracts hummingbird-like moths. They're half the size of my pinkie, dart in and out of the flowers, hover in the air, and have big feathery antennae. I swore they were hummingbirds.....but I've been told by bird fanciers that there are none in Thailand.

I also thought that what I saw was a miniature hummingbird the first time I saw this moth. I asked a plant guy what the little hummingbird was, and he laughed and said Thailand does not have hummingbirds...it was a moth. Now this moth flies like a hummer, looks like a hummer and eats like a hummer, so it is VERY easy to mistake it for a hummingbird, except it is very small, and there are no hummingbirds in Thailand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNqdQ2J ... r_embedded

However, that does not answer the OP's question.

I also have seen very large butterflies and/or moths here. They are the size of a medium bird, but they also seem to be impossible to get a picture of.

KB

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 26, 2012, 9:32 pm

Many thanks for the replies, so far, but I can say that what I have seen do not resemble Atlas Moths.

Imagine a second world war Lancaster bomber, with the wing shape of a first world war Albatross and then it starts to get there.

Yesterday, I was sitting outside having a cigarette and (for the first time) one approached me, flying vertically, and came within two feet of my face, displaying itself, but then disappeared, immediately I exhaled, even though I was trying to keep the smoke away from it.

That one was (I think) almost black with the wing membranes clearly visable and the only change in its' colour was in the two bright yellow patterns it had (one on each wing).

I have never been that close to one before and have never even seen one alight on a plant.

Without going overboard, it was amazing!

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » July 26, 2012, 9:55 pm

I have seen jet black butterflies with swallowtails, and with vivid yellow patches on the bottom part of their wings, but they are not as large as the bird-like ones I have seen. I will try to get a picture of these, as they do seem to hang around a bit more than the big ones. It really looks like a swallowtail from the States, except for the bright yellow patches.

KB

Post by **maaka** » July 27, 2012, 3:18 am

Zoomzoom, are you sure it is not a Bat?

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 27, 2012, 11:05 am

maaka wrote:Zoomzoom, are you sure it is not a Bat?

I can say that I'm quite sure about that because it doesn't have the body/face or wing shape of a bat.

Also, I think I'm right in saying (though could be wrong) that bats all have ears and claws which these, definitely, do not possess.

Post by **maaka** » July 27, 2012, 11:39 am

rodger that....seems you may need to whip out the old Box Brownie, and take a couple of snaps so us resource managers now you have us all interested, so we can have a squizz at what your on about..you might need to do a Papillon..hahaha

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 28, 2012, 7:23 pm

maaka wrote:rodger that....seems you may need to whip out the old Box Brownie, and take a couple of snaps so us resource managers now you have us all interested, so we can have a squizz at what your on about..you might need to do a Papillon..hahaha

The problem is that they do not, often, appear and I fail to pick up on the "air raid" warnings, so am not prepared!

Must teach myself to implement scout training OR get the "Famous Five" to man all key vantage points, suitably equipped!

Can't have, unidentified, bandits invading my air space!

Post by **BobHelm** » July 29, 2012, 4:26 pm

I came across this pair during my stroll around the park today.
They were identical, it is just the one showing yellow was hovering, while the other was on the ground beneath it.
It is difficult to get any idea of the size, I tried to put my watch by the one on the ground, but it was off as soon as I got too close.
A minimum of 6 inches when on the floor would be my guess though..

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 29, 2012, 5:54 pm

BobHelm wrote:I came across this pair during my stroll around the park today.
They were identical, it is just the one showing yellow was hovering, while the other was on the ground beneath it.
It is difficult to get any idea of the size, I tried to put my watch by the one on the ground, but it was off as soon as I got too close.
A minimum of 6 inches when on the floor would be my guess though..

The one hovering is, definitely, close to what I'm talking about.

Those that I've seen seem to range from a wingspan of (around) 4" to a maximum of (around) 9" or 10".

As I, originally, posted the body is (typically) thicker than either of my thumbs and has a length of (about) 4", on the larger beasties.

Also, the similar sized ones (with the taupe coloured camouflage body markings & no wing markings) are almost identical in all other respects.

Does anyone have any idea what they are/might be?

Post by **parrot** » July 29, 2012, 6:46 pm

Two plants sure to attract a wide range of butterflies are the Mexican fire bush and the purple flowering plant shown in one of the photos below. Both are available in most all nurseries.
Attached are a few photos I've taken over the past few years in our backyard (PG-13)

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » July 29, 2012, 6:54 pm

Parrot...I have seen the first three, but not the others. There is one here that I want to get a picture of as it is as big as a medium sized bird, like a small Robin. Unfortunately, it does not appear to alight anywhere that I have seen, and tends to fly fairly high in the trees, so getting a picture is tough!

KB

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » July 29, 2012, 7:06 pm

Here is a not very good picture of one I thought was striking. It did not sit long, and I was shooting with a long lens, so focus, etc. is not good...but was the best I got.

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » July 29, 2012, 7:08 pm

KB_Texas wrote:Parrot...I have seen the first three, but not the others. There is one here that I want to get a picture of as it is as big as a medium sized bird, like a small Robin. Unfortunately, it does not appear to alight anywhere that I have seen, and tends to fly fairly high in the trees, so getting a picture is tough!

KB

Judging by the size of the mating pair in your photos, they may be what I am seeing. Heheh, I guess that is one way to get them to stay put for a bit.

KB

Post by **zoomzoom** » July 29, 2012, 7:43 pm

KB_Texas wrote:Here is a not very good picture of one I thought was striking. It did not sit long, and I was shooting with a long lens, so focus, etc. is not good...but was the best I got.

IMG_1004.jpg

That photograph is not of what I have seen.

My sightings have never contained red and are, also, a lot "stockier" (Solid) in the body.

That, to me, looks more like a butterfly.

I'm pretty sure that what I've seen are none nocturnal moths.

Post by **Tate** » August 9, 2012, 4:12 pm

To the OP....
From what you describe you may be looking at a subset of Papilonidae which have wingspans up to120 mm: two families seen regularly in thailand. The Birdwing (The Raja Brooke's Birdwing) fairly closely resembles one of the photos, with both the male and female shown. Or, a common Club tail. Without a heck of a lot more information its hard to tell. A photograph would help immensely. There are thousands of species of butterflies and moths known to exist here.

I doubt it is a moth since the only 'swallow' tail moths are light brownish hues that I know of.

Ref. Butterflies of Thailand 1st Edition Pisuth Ek-Amnuay is the Author.

A perusal through his website http://www.malaeng.com/blog/index.php might be helpful.

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » November 9, 2012, 1:13 pm

Saw one of these yesterday, and it was quite striking. I did not realize it was a moth until I found it in the pictures. It sits head down and the 'horns' are shaded to give a 3d effect and actually look a bit like horns.

Unfortunately, by the time I got the camera, he was gone.

: BAT MOTH

http://www.pbase.com/glazemaker/image/137664570

KB