Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Long distance relationships, mixed relationships etc...
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StupidFarang
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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 3, 2017, 4:19 pm

Tartempion wrote: First: the bad news:
greedy parents, a child, far away relationship does NOT work.
Who is keeping who on the line?
For 40K baht?
Not me sir, 10k would be enough to keep the meter running.
Obviously we are not longer talking 40 000. She's happy with 10 000. Or so she says. Of course I am not expecting a distant relationship to work. I plan to visit her in two months, and then see what to do next. If all is still okay, and no more red flags of course.
Tartempion wrote: Who am I?
Visited Thailand 20x between 1990 and 2001.
Fell in love at least 40X, but was not willing to run a far away relationship.
Retired and moved to Thailand January 2002.
Invited a childless woman to live with me I met late 2001.
Took me 5 years to build a house far from the madding crowd, as was in my dreams.
16 years later I loathe her family, greedy bunch of people, did not meet the family the first 4 years.
Paid the family 500K over the years to keep some alive or out of prison.
Someone is paying me back slowly, will take an other 2 years to get 250K back, if ever.
I will not pay any more to the bloody family, except the stupid mother I give her 1k monthly to survive.

Am I happy?
Yes, fairly, but could do without the continuous family problems: drug addicts, casino addicts, in debt with loan sharks...
Sorry about your struggle with the family. I totally get your frustration. As of now, no problems with family or sick buffalo...but of course can turn up later. I am on close watch for any of this, thanks to all you guys advice on this board.

zothman wrote:[-X
Dont put your hands in Thai mud ... you will regret and cry all your life .. my own experience
Thanks for the warning. I'll take it real easy, see how it goes.



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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by 86Tiger » February 4, 2017, 5:50 pm

I have read through the thread and I gotta say have heard OP story from many guys and experienced same myself. The thing is, every time you go to Thailand you will have the time of your life. It may take couple days but if search about you will find the most beautiful girl you have ever seen and she will give you the best time of your life, every time. That is why we keep going back. Some of us for many years.

What you gotta understand is every day life { i.e. long term relationship} is not a 2 week holiday and will not leave you with the same "time of my life" feeling. And when you enter a long term deal with a Thai woman you are not getting just her, you get the whole family; drunk Dad, gambler Mom, jailbird brother, unwed mother of 4 sister and all the aunt's and uncles and cousins, as well as several neighbors and older folks in the village.

So what you must do before any long term commitment, emotional or otherwise is know all the players and ask "are these the people you want to tie your life too for the foreseeable future?" As opposed to western culture where it is this the woman I want to tie myself too?

I had a great girl take care of me 2-3 weeks twice every year for about 4 years. We were great together and I had the time of my life every holiday. 2013 I planned a stay in Thailand for full year. I got a flat and she moved in. It is a totally different life than holiday hotels with room service, maids, etc. Before end of first month I saw this was not going to work and sent her on her way. It was tough to do because we had so much history, but when I decided there was no way it could be long term I cut her loose.

I am now married to a wonderful lady for 2 1/2 years. We have 2 beautiful boys and she wants at least one more. She was 33 when we met, never married, never had a kid. She supported herself with "real" job since she was 21. All her sisters are college grads and support them selves or have professional Thai husbands. Her dad is retired teacher with pension and her mom works the farm every day. I am very blessed on many levels to have found her.

I say all that to say, you gotta be sure of her situation and go into it with eyes wide open. Do you want to yoke yourself to her family? Because that is exactly what you are doing with a Thai lady for better or worse.

Oh wow! Never intended to type that much but if you make it thru, thanks for reading!

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 4, 2017, 11:19 pm

Thank you 86tiger for taking the time to write. I understand what you are saying. I am planning to go down there in april and visit her. I promise to go into this with my eyes open. If I'm not comfortable with the family, I'll have to do a proper round of thinking. But it will be an adventure anyway, driving around Isaan, and maybe visit Cambodia too...no matter how this turns out. It will be a blast :)

I'm sure you by now have understood that I like the girl. Im still wary, but she may be the sweetest thing I have ever met! And I still cant fault her on anything...other than the initial problems, which some may (or may not) have been caused by other influences or misunderstandings. Im not stupid...but I still believe one thing (like security) does not necessarily exclude the other (love). I know most people here do not agree...and I will find out for sure one day. But one thing is certain...life will never be the same after Thailand for me! After walking around the last 8 years as a zombie, in a cold and dead relationship, i feel like I have new opportunities in life, regardless of the outcome of this particular situation :)

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by dezzer111 » February 5, 2017, 12:51 am

StupidFarang wrote:Thank you 86tiger for taking the time to write. I understand what you are saying. I am planning to go down there in april and visit her. I promise to go into this with my eyes open. If I'm not comfortable with the family, I'll have to do a proper round of thinking. But it will be an adventure anyway, driving around Isaan, and maybe visit Cambodia too...no matter how this turns out. It will be a blast :)

I'm sure you by now have understood that I like the girl. Im still wary, but she may be the sweetest thing I have ever met! And I still cant fault her on anything...other than the initial problems, which some may (or may not) have been caused by other influences or misunderstandings. Im not stupid...but I still believe one thing (like security) does not necessarily exclude the other (love). I know most people here do not agree...and I will find out for sure one day. But one thing is certain...life will never be the same after Thailand for me! After walking around the last 8 years as a zombie, in a cold and dead relationship, i feel like I have new opportunities in life, regardless of the outcome of this particular situation :)
Try an agony aunt fella you sound like you need to
"You'll Never Walk Alone"L.F.C.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 5, 2017, 1:38 pm

Okay Udon Map...I see that it may be the right time to close this thread now...if you would please. Thanks for all your advice people, appreciate it! Regards to all, thanks a bunch! :wave:

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 4, 2018, 8:16 am

Hi again! I see the thread is still open, and could not resist the temptation of telling you how all this turned out. For those of you who are still interested, and a little bit for my own sake, just to get it out of my system :)

I'll keep a loooong story short. It's been a ride, I can tell you. As you told me it would be. First half year was full of worries and mistrust. After she came to me first time in June last year, all this mistrust was gone, and we have been very happy together since.

No boyfriend on the side, I know 100% she has not had, even if i am the most sceptical man on earth. No contact with other farangs, or potential thai boyfriends. Dont say anything, I just know it.

During the year since we met, she has visited me two times, both three months at a time. She is infact here now. I have met her parents about 7 times now in her home village, and although i never really liked her father, her mother seems okay. But i dont really know for sure what they are saying about me. And I dont really care either. Because i have no plans on moving to the village.

I have to tell you that she is the sweetest girl i have ever met. She has a jealousy problem, but no more than I can handle. She never seemed like the type who was interested in money after the initial problems we had, which seemed to settle down after a short while. I got the impression that she understood that in my country i am by no means rich, even if i do okay. She has been really sweet and caring, i believed 1000% she was truly genuine and in love. I mean really in love. We have been on trips together, and had fun all the time. I have showed her my country, and we have been together all the time when i was not working.

So I've been one of the lucky 5% right. Well, hold on just a second.

So for a months time we have been planning to get married. And everything has been just great. Apart from one thing. Iv'e always had a feeling in my gut that something is not quite right. I could never put my finger on it, but your inner alarm bell tells you that you should be wary. You know the feeling, right?

She has told me before that some farang idiots have been paying Sin Sod for some other ladys from the village in order of 400 000 up to 1 000 000 bath. This made me suspicious right away. I know her aunt got 400 000 from a stupid German who's mother payed everything so the son could get a girlfriend. I kid you not. She was from the same background. Bar girl, one kid from before. Same family. So he set the bar (pun intended) for the rest of us, thank you very much.

So I have held off the Sin Sod conversation, because we were doing fine, and i knew that this could be potential trouble. That may have been stupid.

So today we were talking about the marriage visa. And i thought what the heck, its time for some talk about Sin Sod, this had to be settled before marriage. Because i knew she was expecting something. I told her that 400 000 is out of the question. I sad that i dont really understand why Farang have to pay 10 times Thai. I will have no part of such a stupid ripoff (the rip-off bit i did not say out loud hehe). I did not say i wouldn't pay anything, but said 400 000 was just not happening.
So she looked a bit uneasy, and asked me what I was willing to pay. I said you know I am currently laid off work, but things will pick up again soon, Im sure. "But its not the end of the world, because we love each other right?" I said while smiling.
She asked again how much I was willing to pay. I could have said 200 000...but i was going to test her a little bit. So I said: I pay for the wedding, we send your parents 10 000B every month, and with these conditions i think 100 000 should be a generous Sin Sod. When you learn the language and get a job your free to send more if you want, i said.

Guess what happened.

Tears of course. Blah blah bla Thailand Thai tradition only girl etc etc etc. Then she said no i will not marry you. And she will go home. Thats the end of that.

Man i could not believe my own ears. I know 100 000 is not an enormous sum of cash in Sin Sod...but 10 000 every month to her parents and kid...and wedding costs in addition...it adds up! And with the work situation...

So I said to her in a calm voice..."so this is what you call love in Thailand...I see."

So she is walking away from a caring and faithful boyfriend, secure easy life, guaranteed money for her family...because 100 000 was too small Sin Sod. I have trouble fathoming all this. But i refuse to be taken advantage of. I could have raised it to 200 000 then and there, but i will not do it. If she is not happy with the offer she does not love me. And her family will always be her priority over me. I dont want this.

I could have never guessed. If someone would say to me this relationship is about money, I would just laugh. Oh no...not her. She's special. She is the sweetest girl i have ever met (she is too!)

So this is how it ended people. You all were right. Feel free to say "i told you so!"I can just take comfort in that no kids got involved, and I did not get cleaned out for more than I could afford to loose. A broken heart will heal. But a hard lesson learned. Be careful when messing with bar girls!!

StupidFarang
Last edited by StupidFarang on February 4, 2018, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

86Tiger
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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by 86Tiger » February 4, 2018, 10:29 am

Welcome to the club.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 4, 2018, 10:50 am

I think it would have been better to offer nothing. You see giving 100,000 baht in front of friends and family in the village would be a huge insult. Even poor farmers can usually give 200,000 baht. In other words, to offer 100,000 baht would demonstrate stinginess and show that you were not serious about the lady. The monthly offer to the family is generous, but you embarrass her and her family with the paltry amount of sin sod in the eyes of the villagers. This is why she had to say no. Don't just consider your feelings, have some regard for her too.

The fact that she was a bar girl has nothing to do with it. What matters is how you feel about one another.
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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 4, 2018, 11:04 am

Well if this is the case and I am in the wrong, Im sorry. I guess I have a lot to learn about Thailand. Maybe i should stick to what I know. Thanks for the input.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by Marcosteffano » February 4, 2018, 11:14 am

Mine would of liked every penny in my bank and sent me back with holes in my flip flops.ive done her family a favour taking their fat lazy uneducated daughter off their hands.they want it all and can turn on tears like a light switch.i used to hear her say oh I want big white wedding and all that crap.since when has a white wedding been Thai tradition.i went to a Thai wedding and we all sat around eating jungle food in a mud hut while the family sold off the daughter for a few thousand baht and that was that.i say sin sod em.ps how do you make a Thai lady fat,answer marry them..mine ain't stopped eating since we got married.anyway good luck to stupid farang that appears to be not so stupid.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 4, 2018, 11:21 am

You have nothing to be sorry for. It is your life and your decision. It is just sometimes we have to think what the impact of our actions might be on others. Good luck.
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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by jai yen yen » February 4, 2018, 11:54 am

StupidFarang wrote:
February 4, 2018, 11:04 am
Well if this is the case and I am in the wrong, Im sorry. I guess I have a lot to learn about Thailand. Maybe i should stick to what I know. Thanks for the input.
You are not wrong, sin sod is a Thai thing, you are not Thai. If she wants a Thai lifestyle let her marry Khun Somchai. Western cultures do not pay sin sod but the brides family usually pays the wedding costs. Did you ask for that,no you did not. Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that. I married a nice Thai lady and we discussed these things before we were married and we are doing great, ten years now. I have helped her mom a little through some tough times but I would never commit to another permanent payment. My wife has a very good life now and has never complained. Don't fall into their bs trap.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by Udon Map » February 4, 2018, 12:22 pm

jai yen yen wrote:
February 4, 2018, 11:54 am
Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that.
Depends on how you look at it. 10,000 baht is USD $317. Not really all that much for someone who's worked his whole life in the U.S. and is collecting social security. And compared to living in the U.S. with an American wife, a bargain, IMO.

Regarding the sin sod, it's not uncommon here to pay the requested amount for the ceremony in order to allow the family to save face with the rest of the village; then the parents return a large part of it to you afterwards. There has to be a certain level of trust, obviously, for that to work.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by trubrit » February 4, 2018, 12:38 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
February 4, 2018, 10:50 am
I think it would have been better to offer nothing. You see giving 100,000 baht in front of friends and family in the village would be a huge insult. Even poor farmers can usually give 200,000 baht. In other words, to offer 100,000 baht would demonstrate stinginess and show that you were not serious about the lady. The monthly offer to the family is generous, but you embarrass her and her family with the paltry amount of sin sod in the eyes of the villagers. This is why she had to say no. Don't just consider your feelings, have some regard for her too.

The fact that she was a bar girl has nothing to do with it. What matters is how you feel about one another.
I know you recently married so must be talking from experience LYM, but I have to disagree with your comments, my Thai wifes daughter married a Thai business man just 5 years ago. She was 22 never married no kids , educated good job. I wasn't too happy about the whole sin sod thing so kept out of negotiations. The father of the groom offered 100k which was about my estimate to put on the sort of party sufficent to give face to both sides, I might add the father was a retired govt official, the mother a retired head mistress, no way near a poor farming family and the guest list reflected that .In fact the party cost approx 150k, but the envelopes from guests contained a further 100k, so there was a 50k surplus which was given to the newly weds to start married life with .In this area it was considered "A good do"Most other sin sods seem to be about the 50k mark plus a bit of gold, borrowed for the occasion, which is hastily returned to the shop next day .As the "father" of the bride this compares very favourably with my expenditure when my English daughter married over 30 years ago, so I was quite chuffed .
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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by StupidFarang » February 4, 2018, 12:46 pm

Udon Map wrote:
February 4, 2018, 12:22 pm
jai yen yen wrote:
February 4, 2018, 11:54 am
Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that.
Depends on how you look at it. 10,000 baht is USD $317. Not really all that much for someone who's worked his whole life in the U.S. and is collecting social security. And compared to living in the U.S. with an American wife, a bargain, IMO.

Regarding the sin sod, it's not uncommon here to pay the requested amount for the ceremony in order to allow the family to save face with the rest of the village; then the parents return a large part of it to you afterwards. There has to be a certain level of trust, obviously, for that to work.
Well Udon Map...lets just say that after getting to know her parents a little im pretty confident that i would never see a single bath returned. I helped them quite a lot, both financial and otherwise. But never a simple thank you has ever been spoken. Not that im too hung up about this, but just a minimum of appreciation would be most welcome.I guess the welfare of their daughter is of last concern too, as long as the money comes rolling in.

I would be happy to put 400 000 on the table with no worries if this was the case. She could easily have solved the situation by telling me this, but there were no mentioning of it. And I think i know the reason.

Dont get me wrong, im not bitter or angry, i just dont't get the logic behind this. Who wouldn't prefer long term financial security over a quick payout? I guess we're different in that way.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by glalt » February 4, 2018, 12:55 pm

There are a lot of good informative posts in this thread. Some from happy guys and others from bitter guys. There are not a whole lot of logical posts. Let's face the fact that your girlfriend/wife likely came from a very poor family. If she falls in love with a broke phony farang, she is not worth having. She should be looking for a man who can support her. Love is way over rated. Security and a kind thoughtful mate are the most important things. Then there are at least two fatal faults in Thai women. First is if she gambles, run away, not just walk away. She is addicted and will never give it up. Second is insane jealousy. It may seem cute at first but it will kill any relationship. She may be able to give up drugs and alcohol but she will always gamble and be jealous. Don't rule out bar girls. Two of my good friends married bar girls and both couples have been happily married for more than 12 years. The third friend married a simple farm girl and they too have been happily married for about 20 years. All three couples still live here in Thailand.

Maybe the most dangerous thing is being obsessed with young eye candy. A young lady marrying an old man is obviously a recipe for disaster. Very few work out. Many years ago a wise educated Thai man told me that the old rule for a successful marriage is half your age plus 7 years. He said that Thai people will not think you are a fool and the chances for success are fairly good, at least as good as the percentage of failed marriages.

When I was a young man back in farang land, I married a jealous virgin. The big mistake was that she had no experience at real life and apparently wondered what she had missed out on. She turned out to be a genuine slut. Unlike Thai bar girls she gave it away rather than being paid for it. Sin sot is a Thai thing and Thai men pay it also. The bigger the pile the bigger the face. Often arrangements are made in advance where the money and gold are on the table and after the ceremony, most of the money and gold is given back to the groom. Also quite often the family will give the couple land to build a house and maybe also build the house for them. The money and gold are often borrowed. That is another plus for finding an older lady. There usually is no sin sot especially if she has children.

The best test is to live with your chosen one for a minimum of 6 months and even better for a year. They are excellent actresses but after being with them 24/7 a minimum of 6 months, the warts will come out. At best, always have a plan "B". Never put all your eggs in one basket. One never knows for sure. After being married to my Thai wife for more than 12 years, I still have a plan "B". I could be thrown out tomorrow and still have a roof over my head and not miss any meals.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by arjay » February 4, 2018, 4:19 pm

SF, Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, but If she is a farmer's daughter with no education then even 100K is too much. If she had a university education, was employed, or had great employment prospects, then yes, 100K plus could be argued.

Judging by her reaction and responses it sounds like she was simply after the money. If she really loved you, one would expect her to explain, negotiate, plead, cajole, etc. If face was a big issue for her and her family, then she could have offered things like cash back after the ceremony. It sounds to me that she sees you as an investment and wants the pay off sooner, rather than later.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by neeemu » February 4, 2018, 5:29 pm

I've been married for 10 years and the father in law never asked for a penny. Anyone with any sense would of seen that as a warning sign!

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by skinner » February 4, 2018, 8:14 pm

Sin sod for a bar girl, you can not be serious.

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Re: Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 4, 2018, 9:08 pm

trubrit wrote:
February 4, 2018, 12:38 pm
plus a bit of gold, borrowed for the occasion, which is hastily returned to the shop next day .
I forgot about the gold 555

There seems to be a misconception that Thai men, and Lao men for that matter, do not pay sin sod to previously married women with or without children. This is not true. I know many Thai/Lao men who have paid sin sod to previously married women. For example, one Lao man who works in sales and plays football for a club gave gold, and mucho sin sod to a 40+ year old lady with 3 grown children from a previous marriage. In the end, it is up to you. As to a set rule about sin sod, there is none. You and the prospective bride work that out.
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