The problem with this list is that it doesn't include the wishes of the party members who will ultimately vote in the new party leader and although he's not favoured by the party elite, JRM is way ahead of BJ with grassroot voters who in the main see Boris as a clumsy buffoon who lacks any sense of decorum. IF he'll stand its JRM for me by a country mile.

Nice to see Barnier picking through the rather obvious bones of the JRM-led European Research Group's recommendations on how relatively simple logistics management can make a post-Brexit Irish border both EU and UK Customs-friendly while not imperiling the enduring peace process. Mind you, I reckon having a sitting government in Stormont would go a long way towards that latter aspect. However, with the DUP as another leg on the already wobbly Tory milking stool, I am not surprised at the reticence of either party in moving towards addressing the primary reason behind the collapse of the NI Executive. I guess that suits Arlene just right.

Anyway, I digress...

"Most checks could take place away from the border and ports,..."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 43906.html

Not so nice to see the Governor of the BoE talking housing price crash if there's no deal but then pulls a claimed £16 billion windfall out of his snap-frozen Yank ass if we all embrace Chequers. I wonder what color of bus he plans tootling around the country in?

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 20, 2018, 12:20 pm

The problem with this list is that it doesn't include the wishes of the party members who will ultimately vote in the new party leader and although he's not favoured by the party elite, JRM is way ahead of BJ with grassroot voters who in the main see Boris as a clumsy buffoon who lacks any sense of decorum. IF he'll stand its JRM for me by a country mile.

You're right and the Telegraph, where I lifted the picture from, have handily edited out the lower part which is labeled 'Candidates ex-Cabinet' which if 'ex-' means former, it would be those who have already been blackened in previous, flawed May administrations? If 'ex-' means all those outside the cabinet and all the back-benchers then of course it would unhelpfully (for them) illuminate JRM's rising star.

It's a pity that the 1922 Committee is the arbiter of change and the popular vote is rather diminished by having to chose someone who only they think is fit for purpose.

With JRM's popularity at an all time high they'd be hard pressed and perhaps rather foolish to overlook him but politics is anything but straight forward as we well know.

I don't think at this stage it matters who is in charge so to speak there are huge divisions on Brexit and no way one person can bridge the gaps and unite the house. I don't think anyone thought this out carefully enough and the British people were badly misled.

I disagree, as they say in America, it's not over till the fat lady sings, a lot of people, including me, would be far happier with JRM at the helm during these closing stages.

TM had here Chequers ass handed to her by the EU in Salzburg. Just 2 weeks to go to the party conference as well.

dunroaming wrote: ↑

September 20, 2018, 5:40 pm

the British people were badly misled.

Agree. Very poor leadership all around. The insecurities and myriad foibles of the hapless British are showing through the seams. They don't seem to grasp that the world has moved on without them.

giggle don't quote me I would beat you to within an inch of your life if I knew who you were, you hide within a computer but in the real world u would run, you can always pm me to meet in person!

Paul, don't fret it with this plum, he's like so many other keyboard warriors that ain't worth spit.

Giggle wrote: ↑

September 21, 2018, 7:12 pm

dunroaming wrote: ↑

September 20, 2018, 5:40 pm

the British people were badly misled.

Agree. Very poor leadership all around. The insecurities and myriad foibles of the hapless British are showing through the seams. They don't seem to grasp that the world has moved on without them.

dunroaming wrote: ↑

September 21, 2018, 9:02 pm

giggle don't quote me I would beat you to within an inch of your life if I knew who you were, you hide within a computer but in the real world u would run, you can always pm me to meet in person!

Giggle ..Poor choice or things to say ,,sir , im sure you think you are being amusing or "alternate" , is life that empty that you have to sit in home alone n constantly click the UM / UT refresh icon ?? ,, alas most members both on UT and UT are now fully aware of your many usernames and constant shitstirring postings ,, U REALLY AR R A SAD FOOK .

Moving on ..

Giggle wrote: ↑

September 21, 2018, 7:12 pm

dunroaming wrote: ↑

September 20, 2018, 5:40 pm

the British people were badly misled.

Agree. Very poor leadership all around. The insecurities and myriad foibles of the hapless British are showing through the seams. They don't seem to grasp that the world has moved on without them.

Ah yes, Giggle,... the thinking man's turd.

I’m from Ireland and when I was growing up there was a heavily militarised border to the next major city. Twenty years ago it changed almost overnight by the signing of an international treaty known as the Good Friday Agreement and our economy exploded (in a good way) as a result. Everyone has been happily getting along since more-or-less.

Brexit will break that international treaty and Brexiters like Jacob Rees-Mogg suggest the Irish border could be observed as it was during “the troubles”. Oh My F***ing God!

The Irish border issue is not a trivial EU negotiating tool. It’s a very real threat to peace and stability in Ireland and the UK.

Keep calm and carry on.

Theresa May demands respect from EU over Brexit as pound falls

"Theresa May has accused the European Union of not treating the UK with respect in a deliberately combative address that prompted a sharp fall in the pound amid fears that it made a no deal Brexit more likely.

Twenty-four hours after her Salzburg humiliation, the prime minister gave a hastily arranged televised Downing Street statement in an effort to reassert herself.

Going on the offensive, she blamed EU leaders for the “impasse” in negotiations, a phrase that spooked the currency markets and led sterling to fall 1.5% against the dollar, its biggest one day drop this year."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... gotiations

Mayday! Theresa, my dear, even you should know you cannot demand respect. You must earn it. You haven't, dozy cow, and are getting the push back you so richly deserve. You might be afforded more respect if you carried out the wishes of the voters and hadn't turned this issue into a political Gordian knot. Inept leadership here on display for the world to laugh at.

You fail to say whether you are from Eire or Northern Ireland but as far as I can tell in the death there are only three options, one is a border where the EU can monitor for any duty due, the second option is Theresa May’s option where there is an element of cooperation between the EU and the UK and duty is collected and paid on trust using new tech and random checks for compliance and a third option which is a United Ireland and a customs border in the Irish Sea.... which I doubt will happen in the near future if ever, unless of course you can think of a different way? I’m very interested which scenario you favour?

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 22, 2018, 4:40 pm

You fail to say whether you are from Eire or Northern Ireland but as far as I can tell in the death there are only three options, one is a border where the EU can monitor for any duty due, the second option is Theresa May’s option where there is an element of cooperation between the EU and the UK and duty is collected and paid on trust using new tech and random checks for compliance and a third option which is a United Ireland and a customs border in the Irish Sea.... which I doubt will happen in the near future if ever, unless of course you can think of a different way? I’m very interested which scenario you favour?

Since Fear Rua says the Good Friday was good for his nation's economy, I would think he's from Eire. NI just muddles along as a vassal state like Wales and Scotland.

However, since NI's executive has been MIA well over 500 days, it is a bad time to be talking about borders of any sort on the emerald isle, especially when it's by European autocrats who haven't a bloody clue or couldn't care less about the tortured Irish history.

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 22, 2018, 4:40 pm

You fail to say whether you are from Eire or Northern Ireland but as far as I can tell in the death there are only three options, one is a border where the EU can monitor for any duty due, the second option is Theresa May’s option where there is an element of cooperation between the EU and the UK and duty is collected and paid on trust using new tech and random checks for compliance and a third option which is a United Ireland and a customs border in the Irish Sea.... which I doubt will happen in the near future if ever, unless of course you can think of a different way? I’m very interested which scenario you favour?

Don't leave us.

I'm from Southern Ireland and we'll be fecked without the UK in the EU. We don't really want to have to pay for a United Ireland just yet either.

The trade will be sorted out but if people are worse off who will they blame?

..usually the foreigners.

tamada wrote: ↑

September 22, 2018, 7:24 pm

Since Fear Rua says the Good Friday was good for his nation's economy, I would think he's from Eire. NI just muddles along as a vassal state like Wales and Scotland.

I'm an islander.

I'm from Ireland. Lucky me [/quote]

Don't see how May could have been surprised by Salzburg and the rejection of her Chequers plan. Here's the UK government information, pre-referendum, on what would happen if people voted leave:

I love Eire, I've been there many times, I used to go to Dublin and stay in Clontarf before Dublin became the tourist hotspot it is today drinking in Leason Street basement bars until early hours, I've travelled all the way round and seen sights that'll stay with me forever, particularly Killarney and Limerick. That said, I don't really give a toss about its economy, it's not our issue, it's the problem of the EU to ensure you're all fed and watered and whether you could afford a United Ireland or not, you can't by the way, there's enough hatred in the North to ensure it won't happen in our lifetime, I've met quite a few Orangemen and they loathe the Southern Irish, to the point of being slightly demented about it. My favoured scenario is pretty similar to Theresa Mays, to keep the border open using a trust based system and technology using ad hoc spot checks and banning any company from the arrangement if they are caught trying to beat the system, then we'd see if the Irish really cared about keeping the border open or not but you would have though peace was about the free movement of the Irish people not the free movement of goods but perhaps I'm over simplifying the problem, I'm not au fait with the troubles nor do I want to be, I found the intimidation in the Dublin bars by the "boys" to be unnecessary and the English soldiers at the border to be just as scary, offensive and nasty, two ends of the same nonsense stick you might think. All said and done, I'm a firm believer that we need to keep the Union together until such time as the majority of the people who live in Scotland, NI or Wales decide otherwise by the ballot box and that we shouldn't allow a unelected bunch of know nothings who don't really care about Ireland other than using it as a stick to beat the UK government to decide what happens.