Brexit and Leadership.

Post by **Lone Star** » July 15, 2018, 9:41 am

vincemunday wrote: ↑
July 15, 2018, 7:46 am
. . .

Theresa May’s belligerence will only result in UKIP gaining more of the vote, it’s impossible to see how she can survive unless she capitulates to the will of the people, stands by the result of the referendum and her manifesto but I think she’s far to arrogant to do that so my guess is it’s bye bye Mrs May who will go down in history as one of the worst Home Secretary’s and PM’s of all time, there will be a lot of talk on the back benches tomorrow.

Vince, I don't know the difference between a Tory and anything else in the UK (but I do know the relationship between UKIP and Farage), but it stands to reason that if the People of the UK get anything less than what they voted to occur, there will problems -- not to mention that it undermines the legitimacy of their vote and any subsequent election referendum by the People.

It's difficult to watch any country betrayed by its leaders.

Big government legislatures always claim to "fix" the things that they damaged in the first place.

Post by **vincemunday** » July 15, 2018, 9:54 am

A Tory is a conservative, a bit like a republican and Labour are more like your democrats, UKIP is a party that leans to the right but not extremely (despite fake news coverage) that worked hard to exit the EU. Farage, myself and hundreds of others traipsed the streets day after day canvassing for Brexit, some like myself stood for election for local government and were voted in on a scale that was unprecedented, I gave up my portfolio and being a town and district councillor after my mother died and I moved here but I’ve remained very politically active since, particularly to ensure Brexit means Brexit. Myself and Farage go back a long way, he and I worked at an American futures brokerage, he’s a very astute, dedicated and honest man, a rarity among politicians.

Post by **Lone Star** » July 15, 2018, 10:29 am

vincemunday wrote: ↑
July 15, 2018, 9:54 am
A Tory is a conservative, a bit like a republican and Labour are more like your democrats, UKIP is a party that leans to the right but not extremely (despite fake news coverage) that worked hard to exit the EU. Farage, myself and hundreds of others traipsed the streets day after day canvassing for Brexit, some like myself stood for election for local government and were voted in on a scale that was unprecedented, I gave up my portfolio and being a town and district councillor after my mother died and I moved here but I’ve remained very politically active since, particularly to ensure Brexit means Brexit. Myself and Farage go back a long way, he and I worked at an American futures brokerage, he’s a very astute, dedicated and honest man, a rarity among politicians.

Thanks for that knowledge and feedback.

I've been a fan of Farage since he came on the scene with UKIP.

Post by **vincemunday** » July 15, 2018, 12:46 pm

Will Mrs May wake up and smell the coffee? No, I don’t think she will, this poll clearly demonstrates how people are feeling at the moment, I fear she’s about to feel the wrath of her back bench and the Tory (Conservative) voters, it seems that as there’s more bad news coming out she’s digging her heels in even more, this reminds me a bit of the demise of one of my all time political heroes, Margaret Thatcher who did pretty much the same over poll tax. Let’s hope she goes sooner rather than later, the damage will be much less if she does.

Post by **MrFixer** » July 15, 2018, 10:35 pm

Not heard of 'Europe Elects' polling before and I doubt the veracity of their 'Opinium Poll', however any revival of the UKIP
vote will be welcomed by Labour....

Post by **vincemunday** » July 16, 2018, 3:05 pm

The poll is by Opinium, Euro Elects is just the blogger.

Post by **Lone Star** » July 19, 2018, 8:25 am

Yes, interesting polls in the UK these days.

A poll by YouGov polled over 4,000 asking who comes closest to being the "Leader" of those in favor of Brexit. Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were the top vote getters.

The poll also revealed that more Tories see the former UKIP leader as head of the Brexit movement than their own leader.

Who do you think comes closest to being the ‘leader’ of those in favour of Brexit?
There is no leader: 34%
Boris Johnson: 15%
Nigel Farage: 13%
Theresa May: 10%
David Davis: 3%
Other: 2%
Michael Gove: 1%
Liam Fox: 1%

There is widespread opposition to May's Brexit plan, keeping the UK tied to EU rules and regulations, with twice as many Brits wanting a clean exit from the EU than those who want May’s “soft Brexit”, according to a poll out earlier this week.

A recent opinion poll for the Observer newspaper had Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party on 40 percent support with the Conservatives trailing on 36 percent – a six-point fall since the beginning of last month.

UKIP, meanwhile, was up 5 points to 8 percent support.

Post by **GT93** » July 19, 2018, 2:38 pm

There doesn't seem to be much discussion of Merkel and Macron in here. They are the other side (behind the scenes) in Brexit. They seem to me to be the big players in Brexit. Brexit meant a short to medium term power shift to the EU. The EU was always going to be the casting vote in these negotiations. I think the UK pollies are in gagaland if they think otherwise.

Merkel and Macron determine what jobs leave the UK and in the short term it might be a lot of skilled jobs. May being a woman probably has a ready hotline to Merkel. She can run things by Merkel but it's so damn complicated Merkel probably can't just say yes or no. But she can be a sounding board for a "green" British government. As time runs out, I think these kind of channels count for more. Merkel and Macron are probably quite happy that the UK fiasco deters others from leaving.

Post by **Lone Star** » July 20, 2018, 9:26 am

Another resignation reached PM May's desk.

Philip Davies packed his bags due to the “soft Brexit” plan. Trust is waning that May can follow through with a clean Brexit break since her Chequers white paper continues to lock the UK into EU rules on goods.

“Politics is all about trust and once it is lost it is impossible to win back. Many people have told me that as a result of this they have lost trust in the PM to properly and fully deliver the referendum result. It is with much sadness that I have to say that I have also lost trust in her to deliver the referendum result.”

“Failure to keep our promise to the electorate will almost certainly lead to the catastrophe of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister and I cannot sit back and allow that to happen.

“Therefore I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that I have no alternative but to send a letter to the Chairman of the 1922 Committee asking him for a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister.”

Post by **vincemunday** » July 20, 2018, 11:57 am

Both Macron and Merkel are fighting for their political lives and certainly won't have any say in what jobs remain or leave the UK, that decision will be made by the companies themselves.

Post by **Sport** » July 20, 2018, 12:11 pm

vincemunday wrote: ↑
July 20, 2018, 11:57 am
Both Macron and Merkel.................................. certainly won't have any say in what jobs remain or leave the UK, that decision will be made by the companies themselves.

Correct.

Post by **rick** » July 20, 2018, 3:15 pm

The leadership will come from the big companies in the autumn when they start downsizing UK operations. The planning is now underway in earnest. Some banks have already done this, Nomura started this last year, making my daughter redundant as a result. Lots more to come.

Post by **vincemunday** » July 20, 2018, 4:26 pm

Rick, lots of financial institutions are scaling down anyway, they are becoming risk averse and shying away from what is essentially gambling with their customers money, I very much doubt a bank would move much of its operation away from London which is still the number one financial centre of the world because of Brexit. Scandals like my old boss misreporting to the US Fed by a billion dollars doesn’t help the industry either, it puts financials in a bad light. By the by, the operational move by NMU to Frankfurt to service the DTB was tiny, it hardly made any difference to the London office at all but I’m sorry it affected your daughter, it’s not nice being made redundant.

Post by **rick** » July 22, 2018, 5:02 pm

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. So far any downsizing has been cautious, with them hoping for a good deal. With the prospects of any real deal rapidly diminishing, I think in the Autumn the banks will bite the bullet and start building up their European subsidiaries, as a precaution.

AS you know I was a remainer but i think a no deal is about 50/50. There does still seem to be a blind spot among the hard brexiteers as to what could go wrong - especially as no preparations for it seem to have been done. All i know is it will not be good for me in my remaining lifetime, or probably my children. Maybe my grandchildren (if any) will benefit.

I'm sure this government's handling of Brexit will go down in history as the most incompetent in the last 100 years - it will also wreck the conservative party.

Post by **GT93** » July 23, 2018, 7:48 am

Neville Chamberlain will be relieved.

Post by **tamarlane** » July 24, 2018, 12:17 am

there was quite some turmoil about brexit in the last few weeks. Carl Bildt,a former PM of Sweden and a highly regarded diplomat , tweeted this : ' a country who showed the world so much leadership for so many decades, cant even manage its own country anymore. ' ... How sad it is to see a country disappearing like that from the world stage!

Post by **Lone Star** » July 24, 2018, 9:19 am

Latest YouGov poll shows that only 16% support May's Brexit plan. Almost 1/3 of those polled are prepared to back a new conservative-leaning party that would be committed to what was voted upon in the Brexit referendum.

It is believed that May's "soft" Brexit would keep the UK tied to the EU's goods rules, severely limit the nation’s ability to control trade policy, and continue to allow migration.

34% support Boris Johnson for prime minister. 24% would support and anti-immigrant, anti-Islam party.

Other recent polls show the Tory party falling behind Labour in voter support since Mrs May announced her “soft” Brexit plans, with UKIP picking up support.

Meanwhile, a survey from last week showed more of the British public view Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson as a “leader” of people who back Brexit than they do Theresa May.

Post by **Chuchi** » July 25, 2018, 2:50 pm

Manufacturers will benefit from Brexit because a “more competitive pound” can boost exports, Jeremy Corbyn has said as he pledges to bring jobs back to the UK after leaving the European Union.

Unveiling a protectionist scheme to bring jobs back from abroad and stimulate the manufacturing industry, Mr Corbyn said Labour would ensure that exporters were able to “take proper advantage” of Brexit.

Launching the plan in Birmingham on Tuesday morning, the Labour leader promised to abolish the public sector outsourcing “racket” and provide protections for British exporters to prevent them losing out to foreign firms who are able to exploit “cheap labour” to drive down prices.

Interesting comments from jezzer just as TM announces she’s taking charge of negotiations,to be honest he sounds a bit like Donald Trump,only difference being one wants to drain a swamp whilst the other would like to create a bigger one.Wonder how this will play out with the British Public?

Post by **rick** » July 25, 2018, 4:36 pm

Outsourcing is a swamp - a lot of it has been disastrous, only benefits those companies involved - although half of them have managed to bankrupt themselves as well. The public pays for it all as usual.

Post by **rick** » July 26, 2018, 7:42 pm

On something related - if we do hardish Brexit we need to tout for trade - unfortunately the government has become so obsessed with 'the deal' that they are neglecting the potential markets. This week, both Xi Jinping and Modi turned up in Rwanda on the SAME day - touting for business. Modi went on to Uganda, and also announced 14 new Ambassador's for African countries. They know where the best prospects for increased trade are. Also. Macron has been to Africa 6 times since elected. He has his eye on the ball too .....

And the UK? Have ANY senior ministers, let alone the Prime minister, visited this year? Africa has been neglected for years, and continues to be so. My son on a 3 month trip to Ghana, only saw one product he remembers as British - digestive biscuits. But a number of foods from Italy, Holland, and both drinks and biscuits from Thailand. 50 years ago it would have been very different.

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