ClimateGate busts things wide open

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ronan01
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Post by ronan01 » November 26, 2011, 8:23 pm

BobHelm wrote:Oh deary me ronan01 you really do have a reading comprehension problem don't you...

It says Could not Will.

The same as I could win the lottery this week!!

& yes the science is settled...
A human being can last about a week without water, so anything that denies a large proportion of the population drinkable water will kill them ALL - VERY quickly...
Oh deary me Bob you really do have a logic problem dont you ...

Go read the IPCC Summary Reports - they are littered with COULD and IF. Nearly every prediction or "forecast" from a model is prexfixed by COULD and IF.

Does not say much for the IPCC according to your logic.

Do you expect 4.5 billion people to die by 2012? The science is settled on that?

======================================================================================
Udon Thani Elementary School Assessment Report

Student: Bob Helm
Subject: Logic 101
Grade: Fail
Teachers Comment: Bob is trying ... very trying



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Post by BobHelm » November 26, 2011, 10:29 pm

ronan01 I did not post the article on here suggesting that it was true.
You posted it on here claiming that it said something that it did clearly does not.

Your mathematical attempts at saying it was impossible were laughable - or are you suggesting that people can actually live longer than 7 days without water.

To suggest that you are an academic, suitable for supplying assessments of anyone (even kindergarten) is quite laughable...If you cannot understand the difference between what MIGHT happen & what WILL happen then no wonder life confuses you...

I do not expect a huge number of people to die by 2012 (not even the author of the piece does, if you actually bother to read anything except the headline) however it is possible if a set of conditions fell into place.
Exactly the same as it is possible that I would win the top prize on the lottery if another set of circumstances fell into place... With about the same set of probabilities of either of it happening....

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Post by ronan01 » November 26, 2011, 11:18 pm

BobHelm wrote:ronan01 I did not post the article on here suggesting that it was true.
You posted it on here claiming that it said something that it did clearly does not.

Your mathematical attempts at saying it was impossible were laughable - or are you suggesting that people can actually live longer than 7 days without water.

To suggest that you are an academic, suitable for supplying assessments of anyone (even kindergarten) is quite laughable...If you cannot understand the difference between what MIGHT happen & what WILL happen then no wonder life confuses you...

I do not expect a huge number of people to die by 2012 (not even the author of the piece does, if you actually bother to read anything except the headline) however it is possible if a set of conditions fell into place.
Exactly the same as it is possible that I would win the top prize on the lottery if another set of circumstances fell into place... With about the same set of probabilities of either of it happening....

Nutjob!

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Post by rick » November 28, 2011, 12:00 am

Ronan,

I would have to agree it is a poor article - gives no explanation of why they say 2012 - sensationalism i expect -and uses some very dubious figures - the clathrate levels they mention are i believe 20-30 year old estimates and now estimated to be much lower. maybe the 2012 date was worked out 20 years ago......

The Clathrate issue is important because yes, it is a positive feedback - higher temperatures cause Clathrates to break down releasing methane (also like methane is being released from permafrost).that bit of science is correct (figures excepted). But do not worry, only a couple of degrees so shouldn't worry you and will take some time....

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Post by ronan01 » November 29, 2011, 9:13 am

rick wrote:Ronan,

I would have to agree it is a poor article - gives no explanation of why they say 2012 - sensationalism i expect -and uses some very dubious figures - the clathrate levels they mention are i believe 20-30 year old estimates and now estimated to be much lower. maybe the 2012 date was worked out 20 years ago......
The Clathrate issue is important because yes, it is a positive feedback - higher temperatures cause Clathrates to break down releasing methane (also like methane is being released from permafrost).that bit of science is correct (figures excepted). But do not worry, only a couple of degrees so shouldn't worry you and will take some time....
Even if the 2012 date was worked out 20 years ago it is still wrong and alarmist.

============================================================================================

ALI MOORE: Just a final question. This week starts the mark of a UN - or the UN, I should say, climate change talks in Durban. Would you describe yourself as a climate sceptic?

DAVID MURRAY: Ah, yes. A sceptic is not the word you should use when you disagree with somebody. You should say you disagree. And I don't think there is sufficient evidence to take the sort of risks that are being taken around the world. I've always thought that with the global population growing as fast as it is, that there would be real pressure on energy prices and people would correct automatically by using energy much more sparingly and that would start to self-correct - if there's a problem.

ALI MOORE: So you don't rule out there being a problem; you're just not convinced there's a problem.

DAVID MURRAY: No, but with these things one looks at probability and severity. And you look for actions you can take which would reduce the severity if the problem is there. But if we're not certain that the problem's there, then we don't - we shouldn't take actions which have a high severity the other way.

ALI MOORE: What evidence do you look at to counter the other evidence that there is climate change? Is there something in particular that you focus on?

DAVID MURRAY: Well, the extremeness of the claims is one thing. For example, people talked about the ocean rising by seven metres, which is just an astounding level.

ALI MOORE: But what about the more ...

DAVID MURRAY: The science talks about 20 to 30 centimetres. So these exaggerated claims. When people make a movie and get on a ladder to get to the top of the chart, that's Hollywood, it's not science. And when scientists start arguing amongst themselves, as we've seen with some of these reports, that is not good. Science is meant to be above all of that with true scientific method. So that really bothers me. And the claims are unreal and ...

ALI MOORE: Are all the claims unreal?

DAVID MURRAY: Well, it's not clear to me which comes first: temperature or carbon - carbon dioxide. I'm not sure which does come first. There is much evidence to say one way or the other. So, when I look at all this, I become extremely concerned and I become concerned at the cost of mistakes.
ALI MOORE: David Murray, I think that's a debate for another day, but many thanks for talking to Lateline tonight.

DAVID MURRAY: Thank you.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 378644.htm

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Post by jackspratt » November 29, 2011, 9:30 am

ALI MOORE, PRESENTER: Here is our interview tonight. David Murray has been chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund, since it was set up in 2006. Before that, he was the head of the Commonwealth Bank.
I guess everyone has an opinion on climate change - some (ie the scientists) are just far more qualified to comment than others (ie the bankers).

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Post by ronan01 » November 29, 2011, 10:58 am

jackspratt wrote:
ALI MOORE, PRESENTER: Here is our interview tonight. David Murray has been chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund, since it was set up in 2006. Before that, he was the head of the Commonwealth Bank.
I guess everyone has an opinion on climate change - some (ie the scientists) are just far more qualified to comment than others (ie the bankers).
Typical pratt grubby utterance.

He is Chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund:

The Future Fund was established by the Future Fund Act 2006 to assist future Australian governments meet the cost of public sector superannuation liabilities by delivering investment returns on contributions to the Fund.

Investment of the Future Fund is the responsibility of the Future Fund Board of Guardians with the support of the Future Fund Management Agency. The Board and Agency also invest the assets of the Building Australia Fund, the Education Investment Fund and the Health and Hospitals Fund which were established by the Nation-building Funds Act 2008.

http://www.futurefund.gov.au/

The Nation Building Fund is used to fund major (infrstructure) projects across Australia: roads, bridges, airfields/ports, hospitals, water supply. These funds are distrubuted in a highly structured way to ensure transparancy and equity.

I would be very unhappy to see the chairman invest "public money" in the same manner the influential "scientists" *(the ones that support the "cause") use their time and funds (usually from the public purse).

I am glad he looks at "probability and severity. And you look for actions you can take which would reduce the severity if the problem is there. But if we're not certain that the problem's there, then we don't - we shouldn't take actions which have a high severity the other way".

I would hate to see my savings being invested on the basis that 4.5 billion will die by 2012 as a result of climate change (related causes). Or any similar alarmist article that contains similar rediculous portends of doom.

I am glad we have a steady hand on the future fund tiller, and not the hand of a "cause" inspired scientist convinced the end is nigh (... or coming ... or nearly there ... or last chance ... just give us more money and we will save you ...)

The point is "And when scientists start arguing amongst themselves, as we've seen with some of these reports, that is not good. Science is meant to be above all of that with true scientific method. So that really bothers me. "

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Post by jackspratt » November 29, 2011, 11:18 am

Wow onan - your level of debate has deteriorated quite significantly of late.

Bob is a "nutjob", and I am "grubby". :D

You really ought to lift your game. =D>

ps any updates on the earth-shattering Climategate 2?

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Post by ronan01 » November 29, 2011, 11:23 am

Correction:

He was Chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund:

The Future Fund was established by the Future Fund Act 2006 to assist future Australian governments meet the cost of public sector superannuation liabilities by delivering investment returns on contributions to the Fund.

Investment of the Future Fund is the responsibility of the Future Fund Board of Guardians with the support of the Future Fund Management Agency. The Board and Agency also invest the assets of the Building Australia Fund, the Education Investment Fund and the Health and Hospitals Fund which were established by the Nation-building Funds Act 2008.
http://www.futurefund.gov.au/

The Nation Building Fund is used to fund major (infrstructure) projects across Australia: roads, bridges, airfields/ports, hospitals, water supply. These funds are distrubuted in a highly structured way to ensure transparancy and equity.

I would be very unhappy to see the board invest "public money" in the same manner the influential "scientists" *(the ones that support the "cause") use their time and funds (usually from the public purse).

I am glad he looks at "probability and severity. And you look for actions you can take which would reduce the severity if the problem is there. But if we're not certain that the problem's there, then we don't - we shouldn't take actions which have a high severity the other way".

I would hate to see my savings being invested on the basis that 4.5 billion could die by 2012 as a result of climate change (related causes). Or any similar alarmist article that contains similar rediculous portends of doom.

I am glad we have a steady hand on the future fund tiller, and not the hand of a "cause" inspired scientist convinced the end is nigh (... or coming ... or nearly there ... or last chance ... just give us more money and we will save you ...)

The point is "And when scientists start arguing amongst themselves, as we've seen with some of these reports, that is not good. Science is meant to be above all of that with true scientific method. So that really bothers me. "
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Post by ronan01 » November 29, 2011, 11:31 am

jackspratt wrote:Wow onan - your level of debate has deteriorated quite significantly of late.

Bob is a "nutjob", and I am "grubby". :D

You really ought to lift your game. =D>

ps any updates on the earth-shattering Climategate 2?
No - I said typical pratt grubby utterance, meaning a grubby utterance expected from a typical pratt. You like to dish it out, but dont like it when it comes back at you! Dont be so precious. As usual - you dont focus on the content - you just play the man - "Smokescreen Jack".

Bob! His words speak for themselves.

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Post by BobHelm » November 29, 2011, 11:37 am

ronan01 wrote:Bob! His words speak for themselves.
What that you cannot even comprehend the difference between the words
will
and
could

If that makes me, in your eyes (because I can comprehend the difference) a 'nutjob' then I would be glad to be one...

Anyone has has to suffer to read through the unmitigated garbage that you feel the need to continually post on here in support of your 'cause' is well aware who the 'nutjob' is.... :D :D

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Post by jackspratt » November 29, 2011, 11:41 am

ronan01 wrote:Correction:

He was Chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund:

The Future Fund was established by the Future Fund Act 2006 to assist future Australian governments meet the cost of public sector superannuation liabilities by delivering investment returns on contributions to the Fund.
<snipped>
Oh dear - are you going to correct your correction? :D
Mr David Murray AO (Chair)
Mr Murray was first appointed on 3 April 2006 for five years and reappointed for one year from 3 April 2011.

http://www.futurefund.gov.au/about_the_ ... r_profiles

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Post by ronan01 » November 29, 2011, 12:10 pm

jackspratt wrote:
ronan01 wrote:Correction:

He was Chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund:

The Future Fund was established by the Future Fund Act 2006 to assist future Australian governments meet the cost of public sector superannuation liabilities by delivering investment returns on contributions to the Fund.
<snipped>
Oh dear - are you going to correct your correction? :D
Mr David Murray AO (Chair)
Mr Murray was first appointed on 3 April 2006 for five years and reappointed for one year from 3 April 2011.

http://www.futurefund.gov.au/about_the_ ... r_profiles

oh jack, you are so clever!!! And that changes the content of the posting in what way? :

He is Chairman of Australia's sovereign wealth fund, the Future Fund:

The Future Fund was established by the Future Fund Act 2006 to assist future Australian governments meet the cost of public sector superannuation liabilities by delivering investment returns on contributions to the Fund.

Investment of the Future Fund is the responsibility of the Future Fund Board of Guardians with the support of the Future Fund Management Agency. The Board and Agency also invest the assets of the Building Australia Fund, the Education Investment Fund and the Health and Hospitals Fund which were established by the Nation-building Funds Act 2008.
http://www.futurefund.gov.au/

The Nation Building Fund is used to fund major (infrstructure) projects across Australia: roads, bridges, airfields/ports, hospitals, water supply. These funds are distrubuted in a highly structured way to ensure transparancy and equity.

I would be very unhappy to see the board invest "public money" in the same manner the influential "scientists" *(the ones that support the "cause") use their time and funds (usually from the public purse).

I am glad he looks at "probability and severity. And you look for actions you can take which would reduce the severity if the problem is there. But if we're not certain that the problem's there, then we don't - we shouldn't take actions which have a high severity the other way".

I would hate to see my savings being invested on the basis that 4.5 billion could die by 2012 as a result of climate change (related causes). Or any similar alarmist article that contains similar rediculous portends of doom.

I am glad we have a steady hand on the future fund tiller, and not the hand of a "cause" inspired scientist convinced the end is nigh (... or coming ... or nearly there ... or last chance ... just give us more money and we will save you ...)

The point is "And when scientists start arguing amongst themselves, as we've seen with some of these reports, that is not good. Science is meant to be above all of that with true scientific method. So that really bothers me. "
ronan01

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Post by rick » November 29, 2011, 8:12 pm

The point is "And when scientists start arguing amongst themselves, as we've seen with some of these reports, that is not good. Science is meant to be above all of that with true scientific method. So that really bothers me. "
I thought the scientific method was all about scientists disagreeing about cause and effect, then collecting and presenting data to support their case. Maybe he doesn't understand Scientific method.

Of course, Climate science has unfortunately fallen foul of economics and financial greed, so a lot of dissent is not about science, but retainers from think tanks for supporting anyone who disagrees with the main stream. And of course these days anyone with a 'news worthy' 'science' article can get publicity - even if the science is crap. Bit like politics really.

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Post by ronan01 » December 1, 2011, 12:16 pm

Climategate 2: A consensus emerges

Anthony Cox

The latest batch of emails from the University of East Anglia [UEA] has been released and has produced the usual stark divisions in response. The pro global warming side [AGW] state they have been taken "out of context" and invest the release with the usual nefarious financial motives.

The sceptics are naturally outraged.

However the second release should be seen as an opportunity, not an intensification and widening of the gap between the pro and anti-AGW camp.

In legal disputes about complex matters, the parties can be obliged to prepare a Statement of Agreed Facts which acts to narrow the dispute down to its essential elements.

The latest emails reveal several issues which show the position of the email authors and the sceptics are very similar. Given this welcome convergence of opinion, a Statement of Agreed Facts can be prepared showing what aspects of AGW are essentially resolved and which issues remain in contention.

1. The Tropical Hot Spot [THS]. The THS is an essential element of AGW theory; AGW says more CO2 in the atmosphere will cause more evaporation and since water is a powerful green-house gas the extra water will cause greater warming. This will be most pronounced in the Tropical atmosphere since the Tropics have the most water.

In email 1939 Peter Thorne, a prominent AGW scientist says:

Observations do not show rising temperatures throughout the tropical troposphere unless you accept one single study and approach and discount a wealth of others.

Despite Thorne's reservations the IPCC published a major diagram, Figure 9.1, in its 2007 AR4 report purporting to show a THS caused by greenhouse gases. As is plainly visible the pattern of a THS from greenhouse gases is very different from Tropical heating caused by other factors.

Thorne has contributed to two other major studies on the THS done after AR4. In the first study in 2008 Thorne et al concluded that the model predictions and observations about a THS were in good agreement and that pre 1979 radiosonde temperature data, which is from weather balloons, had been responsible for any disagreement.

In his second 2011 study Thorne et al concluded that the observations since 1979 disagreed with the model predictions but when the observations from the radiosondes from 1958 were added the models and observations were in reasonable agreement.

Everyone is allowed to change their minds.

However, Thorne's latest paper disagrees, in varying ways, with studies by Paltridge 2009, Christy et al 2010, McKitrick et al 2010, McKitrick et al 2011, McKitrick et al 2011 and Fu et al 2011.

So, this is the first agreed fact between AGW scientists and sceptics; there is no THS “unless you accept one single study” which is Thorne’s.

2. The Hockeystick [HS]. The HS is another essential part of AGW theory because it is a temperature record stretching back 2000 years which shows temperatures in the last 60 years are the warmest. If the HS is wrong then it cannot be claimed with certainty that current temperatures are the warmest.

The seminal HS study is by Michael Mann et al in 1999. Mann used tree-rings as a substitute for thermometers. Converting tree-rings to temperature is a bit of an art and can depend on what tree-rings you use. One of Mann’s original co-authors, Ray Bradley, in email 4207, had this to say about Mann’s selection of tree-rings in writing a follow up paper in 2002:

You commented that the Chinese series of Yang et al (GRL 2002) looked weird. Well, that’s because it’s crap.

In fact Mann's HS has been critiqued not only because of what tree-rings he used but also the statistical methods he used. McShane and Wyner look at both of Mann's HS studies and find that even if you use Mann's tree-rings you still can't say today's temperatures are the warmest.

So this is the second agreed fact; the HS is "crap".[/b]

3. The climate models and clouds. Clouds reflect heat from their tops and "trap" heat underneath them. Clouds cover the globe. Understanding the net effect of clouds on temperature and whether they cool or warm, is crucial to understanding whether AGW adds to temperature.

In email 4443 the head of the UEA's Climate Research Unit [CRU], Phil Jones said this:

Basic problem is that all models are wrong- not got enough middle and low level clouds. Problem will be with us for years, according to Richard Jones.

That was in 2004. Have the models got better? The models in 2009 concluded that the net effect of clouds is to warm. That has been modified by Dessler 2010 who says that even a slight cooling by clouds cannot offset warming from AGW.

The problem with the above papers is that observations, what actually happens in the real world, are contradicting the models. In the real world clouds cool. This was known as far back as 1989 in a study by the doyen of clouds, Ramanathan.

Ramanathan has been subsequently confirmed by Spencer 2007, Dupont 2008, Lindzen and Choi 2011, Allan 2011 and Spencer and Braswell 2011.

All of these papers contradict the models. So, this is the third agreed fact: the models are wrong; they don't have enough clouds.

4. Natural variability [NV]. NV is the change in weather patterns which occurs as a result of the change between El Nino which is hot and dry and La Nina, which is cool and wet. The position of AGW science was that the effect of AGW dominated NV and temperature increased as a result.

The emails show some diverse views about NV; for instance in email 1255532032 the UEA scientists, in an attempt to reach their own agreed facts, regard NV as a rather meaningless term. In email 4548 NV had greater importance.

When McLean, De Freitas and Carter suggested NV could explain temperature they were hailed down by many of the AGW scientists.

Now it seems that NV is accepted at the highest levels of AGW science. So, this is a fourth agreed fact; that NV dominates climate.[/b]

That leaves what is still in disagreement between AGW supporters and sceptics. There appears to be just one area of disagreement.

1. Peer Review. Professor Lewandowsky probably sums up the AGW public view of peer review best. Of particular interest is his comment:

Science is also resilient to wilful subversion of the scientific process.

Email 3052 presents a slightly different approach, the private view of AGW. In this email Professor De Freitas is accused of promoting "fringe views". The irony is that De Freitas was a co-author of the NV paper which is now the AGW view. In respect of his "fringe views" he has otherwise been vindicated.

In a way, therefore, Lewandowsky is correct; the attempt to wilfully subvert the science of De freitas has failed.

So, it would seem that even this area of disagreement between AGW and sceptics can be resolved.

The leaker of the emails has indeed performed a public service in bringing together such disparate groups.

Note: Hyperlinks to references available on original article at:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3707172.html

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Post by jackspratt » December 1, 2011, 12:44 pm

ronan01 wrote:Climategate 2: A consensus emerges

In legal disputes about complex matters, the parties can be obliged to prepare a Statement of Agreed Facts which acts to narrow the dispute down to its essential elements.

<snipped>

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3707172.html
Statements of Agreed Facts are prepared and agreed by both parties, not just, in this case, the secretary of The (Australian) Climate Sceptics (Party) - yes, a registered political party. :D

http://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Repre ... s/3730.htm

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Post by ronan01 » December 3, 2011, 10:02 am

CLIMATEGATE 2 - THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED?

They lost all the original data - lost never to be retrieved.

Not very scientific considering an essential element of the scientific method is independent replication of an "experiment" using the same data and described method to produce the same result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eToR5oOv ... r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_LpmLqF ... r_embedded

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Post by ronan01 » December 3, 2011, 10:19 am

It seems we may not get the huge sea level rises promised by the IPCC!

Rising credulity
Nils-Axel Mörner3 December 2011

The truth about sea levels? They’re always fluctuating

But the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report (2007) tells a different story about sea levels worldwide and is worth quoting in some detail: ‘Even under the most conservative scenario, sea level will be about 40cm higher than today by the end of 21st century and this is projected to increase the annual number of people flooded in coastal populations from 13 million to 94 million. Almost 60 per cent of this increase will occur in South Asia.’

This is nonsense. The world’s true experts on sea level are to be found at the INQUA (International Union for Quaternary Reseach) commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (of which I am a former president), not at the IPCC. Our research is what the climate lobby might call an ‘inconvenient truth’: it shows that sea levels have been oscillating close to the present level for the last three centuries. This is not due to melting glaciers: sea levels are affected by a great many factors, such as the speed at which the earth rotates. They rose in the order of 10 to 11cm between 1850 and 1940, stopped rising or maybe even fell a little until 1970, and have remained roughly flat ever since.
So any of the trouble attributed to ‘rising sea levels’ must instead be the result of other, local factors and basic misinterpretation. In Bangladesh, for example, increased salinity in the rivers (which has affected drinking water) has in fact been caused by dams in the Ganges, which have decreased the outflow of fresh water.

Even more damaging has been the chopping down of mangrove trees to clear space for shrimp farms. In one area, 19 square miles of mangrove vegetation in 1988 had by 2005 decreased to barely half a square mile. Mangrove forests offer excellent protection against the damage of cyclones and storms, so inevitably their systematic destruction has drastically increased local vulnerability to these problems.

At Tuvalu in the Pacific, I found no evidence of flooding — despite claims in Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth that it was one of those ‘low-lying Pacific nations’ whose residents have had to ‘evacuate their homes because of rising seas’. In fact the tide gauge of the past 25 years clearly shows there has been no rise.

But the best-known ‘victim’ of rising sea levels is, without doubt, the Maldives. This myth has been boosted by the opportunism of Mohamed Nasheed, who stars in a new documentary called The Island President. The film’s tagline is ‘To save his country, he has to save our planet’. It is a depressing example of how Hollywood-style melodrama has corrupted climate science. Nasheed has been rehearsing his lines since being elected in 2009. ‘We are drowning, our nation will disappear, we have to relocate the people,’ he repeatedly claims.


http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/74386 ... lity.thtml

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Post by ronan01 » December 5, 2011, 6:58 am

Climategate (Part II) A sequel as ugly as the original.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... ?nopager=1

For example, a 2003 email from Michael Mann of Penn State summarily dismisses one variation of the solar story: “I’m now more convinced than ever that there is not one single scientifically defensible element at all [in this]​—​the statistics, supposed climate reconstruction, and supposed ‘Cosmic Ray Flux’ estimates are all almost certainly w/out any legitimate underpinning.” And yet the basis for the idea he dismisses was largely vindicated a few months ago in a major study from CERN, the European lab that is behind the Large Hadron Collider, which found a significant role for cosmic ray flux in cloud formation. The imperatives of climate orthodoxy came immediately into view when Rolf-Dieter Heuer, the director of the CERN lab, told a German news-paper, “I have asked the colleagues to present the results clearly, but not to interpret them. That would go immediately into the highly political arena of the climate change debate. One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.”

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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by jackspratt » December 5, 2011, 2:10 pm

Steven Hayward (PhD in American Studies), a deeply conservative member of the heavily Exxon funded, conservative American Enterprise Institute, writing a op piece for the neocon, Murdoch owned, The Weekly Standard. :shock:

Make what you wish of it. :D

Climategate II struggles on. =D>

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