BobHelm wrote:Yes, she is one of the 25 Executive Directors of the World Bank & would appear to be maybe a little too close to see the trees from the wood...

I was right @Bob, perhaps you should do your home work first before making above remark.

Sri Mulyani Indrawati is the managing director at the World Bank and responsible for the institution’s operations in all regions. In addition she oversees other administrative vice-presidencies and functions, including the Integrity Vice Presidency, Sanctions Board Secretariat and the Office of Evaluation and Suspension.

To understand the Job title Managing Director of the Worldbank perhaps this example is explaining.

Since 1995, Caroline has worked in various positions in the World Bank including: Country Director for the Caribbean; Director of Media Relations and Chief Spokesperson; and Assistant and Speechwriter to World Bank President, James D. Wolfensohn. In November 2007, she was appointed by President Robert B. Zoellick to the position of World Bank Chief of Staff. Then on July 1, 2010, Caroline was appointed as Vice President, External Affairs. She held that position until her appointment as Managing Director on September 19, 2011. As Managing Director, Caroline has special responsibility for the Bank’s operational services, policy and systems and its modernization drive, continuing her commitment to make the Bank an open, results-based and effective organization. She also has special oversight on gender issues.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNA ... 07,00.html

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNA ... 08,00.html

WE posted nearly at the same time,so I did not see your previous post ....

My remark about her being too close is, however completely accurate.
As she was Finance Minister in Indonesia until she took the job at the World Bank she is hardly going to stand up & say that the Government institutions are corrupt, is she??
I would sooner believe what the independent facts appear to say...

BobHelm wrote:Wikipedia says on the subject..

In January 2012, it was reported that Indonesia has lost as much as Rp 2.13 trillion (US$238.6 million) to corruption in 2011. A study conducted by Indonesia Corruption Watch, a non-profit organization co-ordinated by Danang Widoyoko, said that embezzlement accounted for most of the money lost and that “government investment was the sector most prone to graft

@Bob,
Perhaps she let this task to the KPK (Indonesia Corruption Watch) who is now daily on the (TV) news and they are
NOT afraid for the 'High Powers'. Every citizen and/or organizations can report corruption of any level, even by sms.

To give an example: I hardly see traffic cups in Jakarta making money anymore like in UdonThani.
If you are not wrong people dare to protest and the cups earn nothing. If you are wrong that's a
different story , like in Europe. Arriving at the airport at the passport &visa control and
I saw a big sign, NO CORRUPTION HERE and please report. Another example, during the Suharto period
one of his (far) family want to work at City Bank as a trainee. A minister called one of the boss and he was
(must be) hired. Nowadays, if he does not qualified for the job, forget it.

The journalists are watching and reporting corruption also, that's a good sign.

But, the world corruption index table shows that Indonesia is still somewhere in the middle and I'm confident
that this country will improve.

Hmmm, perhaps corruption in present-day Indonesia is not as widespread as it once was under Suharto, but Indonesia still has a long way to go in eradicating the problem, and I doubt that posting signs at the airport for tourists to read will improve the situation much.

What is the military budget? The problem since independence was that the Indonesian military do not get much in the way of money, and had to look to the private sector for financing. This led to the 'cukong'-military partnership.

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:...I doubt that posting signs at the airport for tourists to read will improve the situation much.

The sign was clearly visible above an Immigration counter. So it refers to the immigration desk only.
I hope that such signs will be clearly visible at the Immigration office in Udon Thani ...hehehehe

Wikipedia:

Pondok Indah is an ultra upscale residential area in South Jakarta, Indonesia. Dubbed the 'Beverly Hills' of Indonesia, this is a much sought-after suburb by expatriates due to the proximity to the Jakarta International School,the beautiful planning, safe surrounding, and the clean air. Ciputra, one of Indonesia's pioneer real estate developer and the Metropolitan Kentjana Group built Pondok Indah in the 70s into the most prestigious and complete residential complex and commercial area in Indonesia.
Reportedly, the median salary for expatriate residents is US$357,200 annually plus benefits; however, this is difficult to verify as the Indonesian government does not publicly release these figures. Houses in this suburb can run upwards to millions of U.S. dollars. Many mansions in the area comprise one to three floors, with designated quarters for household staffs. Many of the larger mansions are inhabited by ultra wealthy Indonesians.The 'Jakarta Post' estimates that 74.5% of residents in Pondok Indah are expatriates, following their annual survey of Indonesia.

About expensive schools in Indonesia:
Laan Ya Mo : 'I suggested that these children were, for the most part, the offspring of Chinese elites.
I dare to say that also many Indonesians with no chinese backgrounds go to such schools.

If you see above description about Pondok Indah and you have never been there you think a lot
of foreigners live there. There are only some foreigners who live there and they rent it from the
Indonesian owner.

What I want to say is that some information are misleading. Did you see many foreigners at that class room
picture?? I also dare to say that some school books are spreading misleading info about Indonesia. I have
experienced it myself when i went to school in Holland.

Yes, I agree that Indonesia does get misrepresented in school books, and the media. The Dutch felt humiliated when they had to give up the Dutch East Indies and turn it over to Sukarno and the P.N.I.

The classic movie about Indonesia, and it is a good one, 'The Year of Living Dangerously', got some things right about the country and its politics, and got some things wrong. But, that's Hollywood. If they had left the romance out, the movie would have even been better.

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Yes, I agree that Indonesia does get misrepresented in school books....

Never mind @Laan Yaa Mo, Indonesian Management Trainers are now training CEO's and managers in Thailand
and other parts of the world. Isn't that great.

http://www.superiormanagementtraining.c ... n-bangkok/

BobHelm wrote:The top 5 richest people in Indonesia are:

Budi Hartono $11B
Susilo Wonowidjojo $8B
Eka Tjipta Wijaya $6B
Martua Sitorus $3.2B
Anthony Salim $3B

Look up any of them in Wikipedia & you will find that it calls each of them

Chinese Indonesian businessman

I would say that it looks like Uncle has called it exactly correctly...

Indonesia now has more billionaires than Japan, as Southeast Asia’s largest economy’s expanding middle class continues to ignore the global economic slowdown and shop, pushing up the value of the companies that sell them new stuff and services.
Forbes Indonesia’s latest list of the country’s richest people, released this week, sets its billionaire tally at a record 32 people and families, edging out Japan, which Forbes says is home to 28 billionaires. Last year Indonesia had 26 billionaires, according to Forbes’ calculations.
While the archipelago’s crowd of coal magnates was hit hard by a plunge in coal prices, the commodities collapse was more than offset by the growing wealth of the people behind the country’s top retail, media, banking, food and tobacco companies.

Read More:
http://goodnewsfromindonesia.org/indone ... han-japan/

@Bob, indeed many of Chinese origin and they began like @LaanYaaMoo explained but now there are also
new (local) ones coming up.

I would think that all, or most of these wealthy people even the young up and comers, are Sino-Indonesians.

@Laan Yaa Moo,
You began this thread about Cukongs and their relationship with ex-president Soeharto.
I dare to say that with or without the backup of the high officials Asians with Chinese origin
are the very top business people.

As an example the richest of 3 other countries:

Malaysia:
Robert Kuok Hock Nien (traditional Chinese: 郭鶴年; simplified Chinese: 郭鹤年; pinyin: Guō Hènián, born 6 October 1923 in Johor Bahru, Johor), is an influential Malaysian Chinese

Thailand:
The Chearavanont family (Thai:เจียรวนนท์) is a Thai Chinese business family based in Bangkok, Thailand, and has ancestral roots from Shantou, China.

Philipines:
Henry Sy, Sr. (Chinese: 施至成; pinyin: Shī Zhìchéng; born December 25, 1924) is a Chinese Filipino businessman with interests in retailing, real estate, hospitality, banking, mining, education including healthcare services.

As Indonesia is doing well at the moment and a lot of managers and entrepeneurs did study abroad skills are nowadays more important than backup from high contacts.

I see, Interesting...

McKinsey Global Institute

http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/mgi/re ... go_economy

Most international businesses and investors know that modern Indonesia boasts a substantial population and a wealth of natural resources. But far fewer understand how rapidly the nation is growing. Home to the world’s 16th-largest economy, Indonesia is booming thanks largely to a combination of domestic consumption and productivity growth. By 2030, the country could have the world’s 7th-largest economy, overtaking Germany and the United Kingdom.

However for a solid look at what the country is now, rather than what it may become in 18 years time...
Look no farther than the USA Department of Trade current analysis...

http://www.state.gov/e/eb/rls/othr/ics/2012/191999.htm

Much of the future growth depends on the infrastructure plans that the Government have. Without them getting funding & being able to fully convert the funding into action, rather than letting it drift away in corruption.

There are, undoubtedly, opportunities for Indonesia in the future, there are also equal opportunities for growth in other South East Asia countries & it will be interesting to see who succeeds & who fails..
A stumbling block to Indonesia's future growth could be who it actually finds in the future to trade with.
USA & Europe seem diminishing markets that are already well serviced by China.
It is difficult to see that Indonesia could effectively go head to head & beat China in a trade war game with the developed nations.
There are, already mumblings about competitiveness of Indonesia due to rising wages & it is only just starting out on this road...
http://english.sina.com/business/2012/1218/539179.html

BobHelm wrote:However for a solid look at what the country is now, rather than what it may become in 18 years time...

Ok @Bob, but the growth is already higher. From the 16th largest economy ranking, richest country, to the 15th is Indonesia now just below Canada.

Thailand nr 23.

See http://www.aneki.com/

It rather depends how you like to measure things George.
Uncle started this thread with the concept that a few in Indonesia owned much & most owned little.
Something that you declared was no longer true & that the country was the sleeping economic giant of the region.
If your claims were true then.
1. I would expect a large number of 'newly rich' people within the country. The top 10, at least, tends to suggest that is not true. The richest people in the country are not newly rich, they are families that have been that way for a long time.
2. Corruption that existed before would have disappeared as new found general wealth provided bounty for all. The American Department of Trade most recent analysis suggests that is far from the truth & that corruption is still a huge stumbling block against outside investment.
3. That the economic surge that you describe - just below Canada now - would be reflected in a per capita increase in GDP. After all you are not talking about an economic bounty for the few that Uncle suggested, but a general increase in wealth.
There Indonesia fails badly. Number 116 in the world, with an average of $4,668 per capita. Even Thailand is number 92 with nearly double at $8,703.

For Canada it is $50,826 over 10 times as much...
The position you describe - an expanding economy with few benefiting - is exactly what Uncle suggested was wrong with the country & you insisted was no longer the case....

Sorry George, a huge way for the country to go yet before it can compare with any of the major democracies. As China is discovering, as wealth increases so do the expectations of the huge majority of the members of the country & suddenly competitiveness goes out the door...

BobHelm wrote:....I would expect a large number of 'newly rich' people within the country. The top 10, at least, tends to suggest that is not true. The richest people in the country are not newly rich, they are families that have been that way for a long time.

Of course there are a lot of new rich, but the top richest are still on top. So? Heineken's daughter is also still on top in NL. Do you really think that the top/biggest corporations will sink fast after the fall of Suharto?

I think businesses run by people with Chinese backgrounds are the top in almost every Asian Country, whether before they had back up from high officials and the military or not is irrelevant.

Corruption that existed before would have disappeared as new found general wealth provided bounty for all. The American Department of Trade most recent analysis suggests that is far from the truth & that corruption is still a huge stumbling block against outside investment.

True.....Indonesia is doing their best to fight against corruption and the KPK already have some success against corrupt officials. Recently even a minister has been accused of corruption and was forced to resign and could be sentenced to jail.

Before the military had a stong influence in politics but now It's reassuring that the military can no longer interfere with politics. This was achieved by the current president in his formal position, although he was an ex-general himself. (he has also a degree in business administration from the USA and is well known as the thinking general)

And, do not forget that Indonesia is the fourth populated country in the world with a lot of problems (from the past) to be solved but they are heading in a positive direction. Its up to you @Bob how you interpret figures per capita.

Significant is when a country like Indonesia or Thailand plan to raise the minimum wages suddenly western countries are worried. Why?

George if you want to believe that everything in Indonesia has changed & that it has a future as the land of milk & honey OK. That is your opinion & you are fully entitled to it.
My point is that it has, in reality, only just started along a very difficult & arduous journey, with many possibilities for failure as well as success along the way.
It might be improving but that does not mean that improvement will continue, or even speed up.
History shows that things rarely go as planned, except in nations that are ruled by a strong arm dictator, as people often have different interests than those 'running' a country.

Your assessment is that everything is roses, the USA Department of Trade assessment is that the country is facing a number of difficulties. Many investors will side with the USA & 'wait & see'..

I think that your assessment that Western countries are worried when minimum wages rise is way off the mark.
Western companies that manufacture in the region will certainly be concerned, the countries couldn't care less.
The companies will just pull out when the costs rise too far & move into another country, there are still enough untapped with low wages not to worry them.
While I was buying electronic components we moved from Japan to Korea, then Singapore, then China, then Malaya & they are probably now looking at Vietnam & even Myanmar.
Large companies don't care, they just adapt.

Let me react with these two video's. First video is really interesting. Take you time @Bob.

The last reaction in Youtube of a certain 'TheJuwitata' 9 months ago was:

What time u took these picts?..i think indo has changed more modern than that..

A young proud Indonesian woman I think.



Talking about young ones, they are the future.