Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by **Jing Jing** » June 16, 2014, 1:06 pm

In September, 2010, with the Iraqi government stalled by inconclusive parliamentary elections, a group of [Iraq] political leaders was invited to the Iranian holy city of Qom for a celebration of the Eid al Fitr holiday. Once there, they were quietly summoned to a meeting of another sort. Their host was Qassem Suleimani, the head of the Quds Force, the Iranian paramilitary corps. For nearly a decade, Suleimani had loomed over Iraq as a powerful, shadowy influence: he had flooded the country with agents, brokered political deals, and smuggled in sophisticated bombs to kill American soldiers. Iran’s goals in Iraq were twofold: to bleed the Americans and to bolster the power of its Shiite clients.

Post by **jackspratt** » June 16, 2014, 1:56 pm

I managed to track down where JJ's C&P above came from:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014 ... ntPage=all

It is a long read, but well worth the time if you are interested in some background to what is currently happening in Iraq.

Post by **parrot** » June 16, 2014, 2:43 pm

Thanks for the quote, Jing Jing.....and the link, js.......Dexter Filkins was on Meet the Press last night along with David Ignatius and Paul Wolfowitz. He won a Pulitzer and has many years of war zone experience behind him. Should be a good read tonight!

Post by **parrot** » June 16, 2014, 7:28 pm

Read the article. And followed that with an article in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... feafdd1394.

I suppose Obama could call the various factions together, offer them free movies and free World Cup viewing, and a variety of 'Don't Worry, Be Happy' activities to dampen the mood for violence......but I can't imagine we as a country(s) will ever be able to work out the problems in that region. Once we leave, things will quickly return to ?normal?.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » June 16, 2014, 7:32 pm

Canada did not join the festivities in Iraq and most Canadians do not feel ashamed about that at all.

Post by **jackspratt** » June 16, 2014, 9:15 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Canada did not join the festivities in Iraq and most Canadians do not feel ashamed about that at all.

Of course, that was when Canada was under the stewardship of a far more enlightened PM.

As for the current incumbent:

Though the leader of the Canadian Alliance Party, Stephen Harper, objected to the Prime Minister's position on Iraq, stating that Canada should be fighting alongside the US,..............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War

And whilst not as involved as the two main lapdogs (Blair and Howard), as the above wiki article explains, Canada still had a pretty substantial indirect involvement.

Post by **bumper** » June 17, 2014, 8:02 am

parrot wrote:Read the article. And followed that with an article in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... feafdd1394.

I suppose Obama could call the various factions together, offer them free movies and free World Cup viewing, and a variety of 'Don't Worry, Be Happy' activities to dampen the mood for violence......but I can't imagine we as a country(s) will ever be able to work out the problems in that region. Once we leave, things will quickly return to ?normal?.

There is the answer. your not going to change this region. I'm not ashamed it was a different time and there was a bogey man in every closet in those days. Not anymore true then there is one in you closet now. But none the less it was believed. The first time through with Kuwait, I think justified. But, that is where it should have stopped. It took years to get Ben Laden and it didn't happen on a battle field.

What a shame's me is our leaders seem to know very little about world history, if they did they would no intervention in this area will only make things worse. Sometimes it's their business not ours. No matter who runs these countries they will sale oil, if that is the motivation.

But, never forget you have to turn a blind eye to what these folks do in their own countries after they take over. It's been years, But, I have never forgotten the image of the woman being executed in on the soccer field. But. there ha been a heck of a lot more killed since then. We will never stop the oppression in the world and when we try we become the oppressors. It's a no win.

I would rather see the assets used to control our own borders.

Just curious did Canada go to Afghanistan?

Post by **dingdong** » June 17, 2014, 8:14 am

Yeap the Canucks were in Afghanistan

Post by **bumper** » June 17, 2014, 9:13 am

I was thinking they were just not sure.

Post by **Jing Jing** » June 17, 2014, 9:57 am

Who are you to believe . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... raq-maliki
http://abcnews.go.com/International/gho ... d=24161191
http://www.aljazeera.com/video/middleea ... 82801.html

so much for all the money spent in Iraq.

Post by **dingdong** » June 17, 2014, 11:23 am

Bumper
Here are some facts regarding the Canadians who unfortunately left Afghanistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%27s ... nistan_War
158 dead
and what Canadians or at least this one, one of the great Videos concerning the returning of war heroes by a band called The Trews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrkgV5bl7kQ

Highway of Heroes[edit]

On August 24, 2007, the MTO announced that the stretch of Highway 401 between Glen Miller Road in Trenton and the intersection of the Don Valley Parkway and Highway 404 in Toronto would bear the additional name Highway of Heroes (French: Autoroute des héros), in honour of Canadian soldiers who have died,[121] though Highway 401 in its entirety remains designated as the Macdonald–Cartier Freeway.[122] This length of the highway is often travelled by a convoy of vehicles carrying a fallen soldier's body, with his or her family, from CFB Trenton to the coroner's office at the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto. Since 2002, when the first fallen Canadian soldiers were repatriated from Afghanistan, crowds have lined the overpasses to pay their respects as convoys pass.[123]

A bridge showcased against the sky, with the ground not visible. Lining the bridge are people, some holding Canadian flags.

Canadians line overpasses along the Highway of Heroes to pay their respects to the fallen soldiers who pass.
The origin of the name can be traced to a June 23, 2007 article in the Toronto Sun by columnist Joe Warmington, in which he interviewed Northumberland photographer Pete Fisher. Fisher, along with Bob Jenkins, an emergency dispatcher, were responsible for organizing the first bridge salutes following the loss of four soldiers on April 18, 2002.[124] Warmington described the gathering of crowds on overpasses to welcome fallen soldiers as a "highway of heroes phenomena".[125] This led a Crahame Township volunteer firefighter to contact Fisher on July 10 about starting a petition, leading Fisher to publish an article which was posted to the Northumberland Today website.[126] The online article eventually caught the attention of London resident Jay Forbes. Forbes began a petition, which received over 20,000 signatures[121] before being brought to the Minister of Transportation on August 22.[127] Following the announcement on August 24, the provincial government and MTO set out to design new signs. The signs were erected and unveiled on September 7,[122] and include a smaller reassurance marker (shield), as well as a larger billboard version.[128]

Hope this helps
Ding
I know this thread concerns Iraq but a couple of you asked about Afghanistan facts and here they are

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » June 17, 2014, 7:27 pm

jackspratt wrote: Of course, that was when Canada was under the stewardship of a far more enlightened PM.

***** was not that enlightened. As for Harpo, he wrote a very readable book about ice-hockey. This might not put him in the wholly enlightened range, but it does demonstrate that the current PM has talents of a sort. The sad thing is that it does not seem to have sold well nor has any Canadian high school added the tome to its library.

Post by **dingdong** » June 17, 2014, 8:08 pm

Jean Chretien (the Canadian Prime minister at the time) in your words "may not have be enlightened" but he saved hundreds of Canadian lives by not entering the Iraqi war. Standing up to Bush "Either your with us or your against us" He, in my experience/opinion was one of the World Leaders to say, go give your heads a shack. It, the invasion did not have the sanction of the UN (United Nations) so go for it BUT not with us. Finally a World Leader enlightened or not said, (Apologies) "P-ss off"

Post by **jackspratt** » June 17, 2014, 8:11 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
jackspratt wrote: Of course, that was when Canada was under the stewardship of a far more enlightened PM.
***** was not that enlightened. As for Harpo, he wrote a very readable book about ice-hockey. This might not put him in the wholly enlightened range, but it does demonstrate that the current PM has talents of a sort. The sad thing is that it does not seem to have sold well nor has any Canadian high school added the tome to its library.

I see that the on his recent visit to Canada (et al), our misogynist lying PM (Abbott) hit it off famously with your equally conservative incumbent.

That alone would be enough to give Mr Harper (who urged going to war in Iraq) a score close to 2/10 in my book.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » June 17, 2014, 10:46 pm

jackspratt wrote:I see that the on his recent visit to Canada (et al), our misogynist lying PM (Abbott) hit it off famously with your equally conservative incumbent.

That alone would be enough to give Mr Harper (who urged going to war in Iraq) a score close to 2/10 in my book.

Well, two is better than zilch.

Most Canadians would give the Prime Minister a 3 and maybe even a 3.2. Yes, I noticed that Mr. Abbott came calling but I don't know if anything of substance came of the meeting between these two Conservative stalwarts (note that I did not write 'Progressive Conservatives'). The visit, unhappily, did not seem to garner much interest with the political pundits in the First Dominion.

Post by **JimboPSM** » June 18, 2014, 10:37 am

The Sunday talk shows and the media appears to be overrun with exactly the same Richard Heads giving advice as those whose spin, distortions, lies and peddling of manufactured evidence in 2003 laid a large part of the groundwork for where we are today.

Back in 2003 the media not only spectacularly failed to undertake a proper due diligence of the case for war, quite disgustingly many of them (in particular the Murdoch empire) were guilty of actively cheerleading for it.

A “refresher” from Jon Stewart for some of those afflicted with highly selective amnesia:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/a6yqr ... about-iraq

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/7v01w ... love-story

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/4384n ... sed-people

There is a short (moronic) ad at the start of the first two links above.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » June 18, 2014, 6:46 pm

This U.S. writer for a Canadian newspaper wrote against the invasion of Iraq at the beginning and predicted the mess that would be created:-

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... -iraq-war/

http://ericmargolis.com/2014/06/the-all ... s-in-iraq/

Post by **Jing Jing** » June 18, 2014, 8:10 pm

The invasion of Iraq was the culmenation of decades of US meddling in Iraq. Saddam was basicly installed by the CIA.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/14/opini ... aking.html
The American public has been fed one bs story after another. Obama no different than other Presidents. They all lie.

Post by **dingdong** » June 18, 2014, 8:43 pm

OH OH LOOK OUT
The way it should have been dealt with in the first place from within

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/saudis-appare ... 38829.html

Post by **jackspratt** » June 18, 2014, 8:59 pm

dingdong wrote:OH OH LOOK OUT
The way it should have been dealt with in the first place from within

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/saudis-appare ... 38829.html

Hilarious - the Saudis, who are financing and arming the Sunni ISIS, telling Shi'ite Iran not to "interfere".

Where does this leave the US? My friend's friend is my enemy..... that has a certain ring about it. $\:D/$

Ya' couldn't make it up - thanks again GW ......... =D> =D> =D>