Double glazed or single glazed????

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Marcosteffano
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Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 1, 2017, 12:24 am

Let's look at the difference between double and single glazed windows in Thailand.i have upvc windows that are single glazed.i use thermal lined curtains.window 1800 widex1100 high.cost 6,000b all in.sun comes through and because of liner in white does not absorbed the radiated heat from the sun.light is reflected and not converted to heat.hence my dark lined curtains to keep out the light are cool and not like radiators.now double glazing with dark curtains to keep out the light are getting on for twice the price and the light still travels through the twin layers of glass and heats up the dark curtains that actually don't keep out as much light as lined curtains.so in theory and price the single glazed and thermal lined curtains pee all over double glazed windows,unless you spend more on lined curtains aswell..now if I lived in a country in the northern hemisphere with low light levels I would be looking at double glazing with lined curtains for a steady form of insulation.lets get the ball rolling on this one.to me double glazing is to stop the conduction of cold or heat,not the radiation of heat or cold.im not a scientist im a brickie with a smudgen of summin.in other words don't go buying double glazing and wasting money,single glazing and lined curtains in this country with its sun are the way.ive only posted this topic because I've been talking to a pal who can't understand why he's got double glazing and his curtains are hot.its not rocket science.ohhh I've got a headache trying to explain this to my friend.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by sometimewoodworker » June 3, 2017, 6:13 pm

Marcosteffano wrote:Let's look at the difference between double and single glazed windows in Thailand.i have upvc windows that are single glazed.i use thermal lined curtains.window 1800 widex1100 high.cost 6,000b all in.sun comes through and because of liner in white does not absorbed the radiated heat from the sun.light is reflected and not converted to heat.hence my dark lined curtains to keep out the light are cool and not like radiators.now double glazing with dark curtains to keep out the light are getting on for twice the price and the light still travels through the twin layers of glass and heats up the dark curtains that actually don't keep out as much light as lined curtains.so in theory and price the single glazed and thermal lined curtains pee all over double glazed windows,unless you spend more on lined curtains aswell..now if I lived in a country in the northern hemisphere with low light levels I would be looking at double glazing with lined curtains for a steady form of insulation.lets get the ball rolling on this one.to me double glazing is to stop the conduction of cold or heat,not the radiation of heat or cold.im not a scientist im a brickie with a smudgen of summin.in other words don't go buying double glazing and wasting money,single glazing and lined curtains in this country with its sun are the way.ive only posted this topic because I've been talking to a pal who can't understand why he's got double glazing and his curtains are hot.its not rocket science.ohhh I've got a headache trying to explain this to my friend.
You seem to be rather selective in your comparisons. Of course in the examples you choose you are absolutely correct.

However if you add in a few other factors it is rather less black and white, in fact IGU's are probably a good option.

First double glazing (IGU's) when installed when you are building only adds about 20% to the cost of windows. This is not usually an aftermarket product as is common in the west and so very expensive there.

Second on the radiation of heat Low-E glass, with or without a tint,(which can certainly be used in IGU's and may be useable in single glazing) is quite effective. Though even better is to have the windows shaded from direct sun, specially after about 9a.m.~10a.m. then you don't need thermal lined curtains. FWIW our house has a 2.5 metre minimum roof overhang specifically for this.

Third' a point you have overlooked, IGU's (specially if you use different thicknesses of glass) dramatically reduce noise.

Forth double glazing is not only to stop the conduction of cold or heat it is to give a more even temperature in a room. so a room with good double glazing is more comfortable, and incidentally less expensive to cool.


So I would say that if you have to use thermal lined curtains for much of the time then your building design is not nearly as good as it could be.
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 4, 2017, 8:01 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
Marcosteffano wrote:Let's look at the difference between double and single glazed windows in Thailand.i have upvc windows that are single glazed.i use thermal lined curtains.window 1800 widex1100 high.cost 6,000b all in.sun comes through and because of liner in white does not absorbed the radiated heat from the sun.light is reflected and not converted to heat.hence my dark lined curtains to keep out the light are cool and not like radiators.now double glazing with dark curtains to keep out the light are getting on for twice the price and the light still travels through the twin layers of glass and heats up the dark curtains that actually don't keep out as much light as lined curtains.so in theory and price the single glazed and thermal lined curtains pee all over double glazed windows,unless you spend more on lined curtains aswell..now if I lived in a country in the northern hemisphere with low light levels I would be looking at double glazing with lined curtains for a steady form of insulation.lets get the ball rolling on this one.to me double glazing is to stop the conduction of cold or heat,not the radiation of heat or cold.im not a scientist im a brickie with a smudgen of summin.in other words don't go buying double glazing and wasting money,single glazing and lined curtains in this country with its sun are the way.ive only posted this topic because I've been talking to a pal who can't understand why he's got double glazing and his curtains are hot.its not rocket science.ohhh I've got a headache trying to explain this to my friend.
You seem to be rather selective in your comparisons. Of course in the examples you choose you are absolutely correct.

However if you add in a few other factors it is rather less black and white, in fact IGU's are probably a good option.

First double glazing (IGU's) when installed when you are building only adds about 20% to the cost of windows. This is not usually an aftermarket product as is common in the west and so very expensive there.

Second on the radiation of heat Low-E glass, with or without a tint,(which can certainly be used in IGU's and may be useable in single glazing) is quite effective. Though even better is to have the windows shaded from direct sun, specially after about 9a.m.~10a.m. then you don't need thermal lined curtains. FWIW our house has a 2.5 metre minimum roof overhang specifically for this.

Third' a point you have overlooked, IGU's (specially if you use different thicknesses of glass) dramatically reduce noise.

Forth double glazing is not only to stop the conduction of cold or heat it is to give a more even temperature in a room. so a room with good double glazing is more comfortable, and incidentally less expensive to cool.


So I would say that if you have to use thermal lined curtains for much of the time then your building design is not nearly as good as it could be.
I have paid 4,400 baht for a single glazed 1800x1100mm uvpc unit from do home,don't know what glass is in the but they have a green tint.im just about to start my 3rd bungalow and would be really grateful if you can point me in the right direction to buy the double glazed units at 20% higher so costing 5,500baht.also im not worried about noise as I live on the outskirts of nong wua so in a cul de sac and like the sound of the jungle,yes we do have soi dogs but thankfully not in my soi.as for design I have just completed two refurbishments so I got the roofs and overhang that came with them.i will look at installing double glazing on the front and any other windows that get direct sunlight and for the extra 1,000baht per window will use thermal lined curtains.any advice on where to get double glazing will be appreciated.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by sometimewoodworker » June 4, 2017, 8:53 pm

Marcosteffano wrote:I have paid 4,400 baht for a single glazed 1800x1100mm uvpc unit from do home,don't know what glass is in the but they have a green tint.im just about to start my 3rd bungalow and would be really grateful if you can point me in the right direction to buy the double glazed units at 20% higher so costing 5,500baht.also im not worried about noise as I live on the outskirts of nong wua so in a cul de sac and like the sound of the jungle,yes we do have soi dogs but thankfully not in my soi.as for design I have just completed two refurbishments so I got the roofs and overhang that came with them.i will look at installing double glazing on the front and any other windows that get direct sunlight and for the extra 1,000baht per window will use thermal lined curtains.any advice on where to get double glazing will be appreciated.
You probably bought a mass produced item that has been built down to a price and in large quantities. I don't say that it is a bad product but it certainly isn't great, good enough in the short term probably, long term you may well find it doesn't stand up very well.

The tinted glass is almost guaranteed not to be low-e though the tint may somewhat reduce the heat transmitted.

AFIK. You may find mass produced windows with IGU's in somewhere like GlobalHouse. I have no idea of the quality of the IGU's but they are probably not the best.

If however you want better quality custom sized windows the difference between good single and double glazing should be in the 20% range unless the suppliers are making an unreasonable markup.

You also need to take care that the glass you are getting is good quality and not a cheap import.
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 4, 2017, 9:42 pm

Looked everywhere for double glazing.because my to jobs were refurbishments I cut the hole to fit the off the shelf windows..but if I had known bespoke double glazed with low e glass were available for 20% more I would deffo had them for sure.as for the quality of the glass they had a German sounding name but that means nothing out here,a bit like any guarantee.i had a salesman tell me I got a 15 year guarantee with a curtain paint I was choosing last week.so I said if go bad after 14 years can scrape off wall and bring back.????? Anyway please forward the double glazing company as I'm drawing up plans and budgeting at the moment.thanks.

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by sometimewoodworker » June 5, 2017, 7:35 am

Marcosteffano wrote:Looked everywhere for double glazing.because my to jobs were refurbishments I cut the hole to fit the off the shelf windows..but if I had known bespoke double glazed with low e glass were available for 20% more I would deffo had them for sure.as for the quality of the glass they had a German sounding name but that means nothing out here,a bit like any guarantee.i had a salesman tell me I got a 15 year guarantee with a curtain paint I was choosing last week.so I said if go bad after 14 years can scrape off wall and bring back.????? Anyway please forward the double glazing company as I'm drawing up plans and budgeting at the moment.thanks.
If you are doing refurbishing and then selling on then you should probably stick to the premade mass produced off the shelf DG units sometimes available in GlobalHouse (I've seen them in the Khon Kaen branch maybe even in Udon). You will not get any custom windows for anywhere near those prices.

Guarantees can mean something but you have to get a company that stands by their product. Our window company does but everyone who uses them will tell you that they are not cheep. You can see them in action on page 7 of my building story, the company name is on the shirts.

The glazing were originally quoted was (Laminate Green Low E Glass 3mm+PVB1.52 + Clear Low E 4mm+Argon 8mm+Clear Float Glass 5mm) We used Laminate Clear 4mm+PVB1.52mm+LowE Clear 4mm+Argon8mm+Clear5mm

The company who installed the windows does not manufacture the IGU's, I have no idea if the IGU manufacture deals directly with end users.
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by glalt » June 5, 2017, 10:16 am

I'm not sure if I would spend the extra money on double pane windows. It is money much better spent to have a large roof overhang to prevent the sun from shining in your windows. Double pane windows are great for reducing noise if you live in a noisy area. They will also save you considerable money on heating bills. Unfortunately our big problem is cooling and not heating. Double pane windows do very little for cooling. There is a lot of information on the Internet regarding double pane windows. Collect all the information you can before you make a decision.

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by fatbob » June 5, 2017, 11:31 am

I got a local to make our alum windows on site, cheap and still good ten years on, if I have a problem he comes and fixes it, why cheap and basic? I'm in Issan not Sydney Harbour, I don't intend to sit in a chair looking and worrying about my house in Issan, it's dead money, much better things to do with my life. Best thing is eaves and lots of tree's for shade...

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 5, 2017, 12:01 pm

Well after all the thought I'm going with the upvc single glass with lined curtains and inverter air cons and still will save a fortune and I see this is the best way in this climate.double glazing is ok but nothing beats shade and lined curtains.one thing I am blessed with is about 40 mature palm trees around the 3 houses.also double glazing is not 20% more expensive than single glazed,it's more like 2-3 times the price.as I'm sat in my lounge diner now I have 3. 6x4 ft windows and a 2x2 metre patio door.i would say it would cost me in the region of25-30,000b extra for these to be double glazed but then I have a 18,000 but air con that was about 10,000b more than the standard air con,maybe 12,000b I can't remember in the uk I had a double glazed front door,the hallway was still cold-hot but soon as I stuck a thermal curtain on it things changed.

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by parrot » June 5, 2017, 2:01 pm

I'm a believer in single story, large overhangs, and house more or less oriented E to W with the carport on the long western end, and large overhangs on the east and southern ends. Works for us after 20 years, my only regret is not making the east overhang larger than I did. But quick growing palms nipped that problem in the bud. If you can (you can) keep the sun off of your four walls, then you don't deal with the problems of walls baking long after the sun goes down or windows too hot to touch.

I don't want to take the thread off-topic, but quick question: If the heat from the sun gets through a window and is stopped by a thermal curtain, doesn't the heat remain in the room (in one form or another)? I can understand that a curtain (really, any kind of curtain) would prevent the sun from heating up the nearby flooring/furniture......and can understand that the area next to a non-thermal curtain might be hotter than next to a thermal curtain........but isn't the heat in the room once it gets through the window? Just curious.

There are a multitude of websites that you can use to track the sun angles for any lat/long. Living in our home here has given me a better understanding of just how much the sun angles over the course of 6 months.......from e to s (Jun - Dec) and back again s to e (Dec - Jun). If you can design your home so that the sun never hits your walls/windows, you'll be way ahead of the heat game.

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by sometimewoodworker » June 5, 2017, 2:37 pm

glalt wrote:I'm not sure if I would spend the extra money on double pane windows. It is money much better spent to have a large roof overhang to prevent the sun from shining in your windows. Double pane windows are great for reducing noise if you live in a noisy area. They will also save you considerable money on heating bills.
Yes, and yes.

They can also reduce any need for security bars by incorporating a laminated pane, though you can also do that with single pane windows.
glalt wrote:Unfortunately our big problem is cooling and not heating. Double pane windows do very little for cooling.
Not really. There is no difference between keeping hot in or keeping it out. The only factor is that the required air temperature difference is not so great in Thailand.

Heat (which we want to reduce) is transmitted by conduction, convection, and radiation. IGU's by design do well on the first two, however the third is the one we need to be more concerned about in Thailand. So for that we need low transmission of IR radiation. Common glass doesn't do a great job at that, fortunately the glass technology has options for that, they can spray silver on to the glass (not a mirror plating but nanotechnology called Low-E) you get a significant reduction in radiated heat, the glass can be also tinted and you can combine the two, add an extra sheet of treated glass and the reduction is even better.

glalt wrote:There is a lot of information on the Internet regarding double pane windows. Collect all the information you can before you make a decision.
I agree, always good advice.
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 5, 2017, 10:15 pm

parrot wrote:I'm a believer in single story, large overhangs, and house more or less oriented E to W with the carport on the long western end, and large overhangs on the east and southern ends. Works for us after 20 years, my only regret is not making the east overhang larger than I did. But quick growing palms nipped that problem in the bud. If you can (you can) keep the sun off of your four walls, then you don't deal with the problems of walls baking long after the sun goes down or windows too hot to touch.

I don't want to take the thread off-topic, but quick question: If the heat from the sun gets through a window and is stopped by a thermal curtain, doesn't the heat remain in the room (in one form or another)? I can understand that a curtain (really, any kind of curtain) would prevent the sun from heating up the nearby flooring/furniture......and can understand that the area next to a non-thermal curtain might be hotter than next to a thermal curtain........but isn't the heat in the room once it gets through the window? Just curious.

There are a multitude of websites that you can use to track the sun angles for any lat/long. Living in our home here has given me a better understanding of just how much the sun angles over the course of 6 months.......from e to s (Jun - Dec) and back again s to e (Dec - Jun). If you can design your home so that the sun never hits your walls/windows, you'll be way ahead of the heat game.
The darker the curtains that face the window the more they will absorb light and convert it into heat.light coloured curtains are ok for reflecting light but you'll suffer from insomnia if you know what I'm saying,any window single or double glazed needs therma curtains if the sun hits them.also yes the heat once inside your room will stay inside the room unless you ventilate..and we don't actually get heat from the sun like a heater,we get light that turns to heat to put it basically.otherwise the whole of space would be warm,hot or like udon,fffff hot.

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by sometimewoodworker » June 6, 2017, 5:18 am

Marcosteffano wrote:..and we don't actually get heat from the sun like a heater,we get light that turns to heat to put it basically.otherwise the whole of space would be warm,hot or like udon,fffff hot.
I think you must have missed physics 101 :)

We do get heat directly from the sun. It produces full spectrum electromagnetic radiation. The infrared part of that spectrum is known as heat and when it hits an object that absorbs it that object gets hot.

So as the majority of space contains very few objects it isn't hot, however if you put black object into space it gets very hot

Marcosteffano wrote: The darker the curtains that face the window the more they will absorb light and convert it into heat.
Well a very tiny amount will, but they mostly absorb infrared radiation and that is heat.
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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by fatbob » June 6, 2017, 7:04 am

Marcosteffano wrote: I have a 18,000 but air con that was about 10,000b more than the standard air con,maybe 12,000b I can't remember in the uk I had .

There is no such thing as a standard A/C, the BTU rating of the units is dependent on the cubic metres of the room it's going in, ahh that's right your a brickie.....

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Re: Double glazed or single glazed????

Post by Marcosteffano » June 6, 2017, 7:37 am

fatbob wrote:
Marcosteffano wrote: I have a 18,000 but air con that was about 10,000b more than the standard air con,maybe 12,000b I can't remember in the uk I had .

There is no such thing as a standard A/C, the BTU rating of the units is dependent on the cubic metres of the room it's going in, ahh that's right your a brickie.....
Oh sorry I forgot to say my aircon is a inverter type compared the the,usual,standard,old energy inefficient type.yes I am a brickies and not an expert on ac but I thought the but was the rating of the air con unit and not the size of the room.please enlighten me more,I am all ears.

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