too many pillocks jackspratt - you'll never get smokers to see sense

falang breaks the law - taxi driver weighs them in - customs impose fine - must be a fiddle
how about abiding by the law instead?

A friend of mine, and his Thai girlfriend were also caught today in this scam being operated by Nong Khai customs at the Laos border crossing. My friend informed me that he and his girlfriend were returning from a visa run to Laos. They had been informed by the duty free shops at Laos that they could bring back 400 cigarettes each into Thailand with no problem. This was incorrect as the allowance is 200 per person. My friend was confronted by customs in the car park, and he suspects that the customs officers already knew that the limit for cigarettes had been over exceeded since only he was pounced on. He and his Thai girlfriend were taken to the Nong Khai customs office where he was threatened with jail unless he paid 20,000 baht on the spot. This was calculated at approx 484 baht per packet of 20 cigarettes and he was told that this was on the full amount being carried, 4 cartons, not on the 2 cartons over the limit. They said that all of the cigarettes were his, ferrangs and none of them could be his girlfriends or her allowance. This is because the financial penalty for excess cigarettes is much higher for ferrangs than for Thai, and so the amount of the fine would be higher if all blame was attributed to him. After hours of painful negotiation the amount was reduced to 12,,000 baht which he had to pay or face going to court, and they confiscated three of the four cartons, not even leaving them with 2 cartons, one for each as per their allowance. Please be warned that this is a well rehearsed and well practiced scam designed to extract huge amounts of baht from ferrang and applies even if you only slightly exceed the customs allowance. You will not be told of your rights, or given any translation of what is going on in your own language, and my friend was taken away without being cautioned or read any rights. My friend was also threatened with police arrest, being held in custody, and a Court trial and possibly not being able to enter Thailand again.

This is a scam in my opinion because:

1. The amount of fine at 484 baht per packet over 200 cigarettes is ridiculously high, and it is unfair that the fine is four times higher for ferrang than for Thai people.
2. The duty free shops are misleading ferrang about their allowances, and then I summise mabe even tipping off the customs.
3. In this case claiming that all the cigarettes were the ferrangs and none of them his Thai girlfriends is deliberate manipulation to maximise the amount the ferrang is forced to pay in this trap.
4. Too many cigarettes were confiscated, even the duty free allowance of 200 per person could not be retained.
5. Initially they tried to extort an amount based on the entire quantity in his possession and not just the amount above the limit.

My advice to any ferrang contemplating a Laos Visa run, or returning from Laos to Nong Khai would be to ensure that you do not cross into Thailand with one cigarette more than the 200 cigarette limit, and that you check very carefully what the current maximum quantity of alcohol, and or cigarettes you can bring in legally to Thailand !!!!!

Yep. They were scammed. Hope they reported it, not that it will do much good now.
As you said, do your own research, don't believe the vendors.
Here's what the Thai Customs website says:

However, there are limits on the amount of alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, cigars and smoking tobacco to which you may include in your duty free personal exemption as follows:
200 cigarettes or 250 grams of cigars or smoking tobacco; and
1 litre of alcoholic beverages.

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connec ... ancerelief

Section 27 bis. Any person whoever assists in concealing, disposing or making away with, purchases, takes in pledge or otherwise receives any goods, knowing that such goods are tax unpaid or restricted or prohibited goods; or that they were imported into the Kingdom without duly cleared through the Customs; or that they were imported into the Kingdom by evading duties, restrictions or prohibitions so related to such goods shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine equal to quadruple the duty-paid value of the goods or both the imprisonment and fine.

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connec ... dpenalties

My wife's house and land are in the same soi / village as many of the "customs" guys who do these busts live at.

They take the cigs & re-sell them, she notes that the whole village is like wall to wall "confiscated from farang cigs" in some houses & that the locals think it's all a big laff & a half as it's been going on as long as anyone can remember.

I'll have to ask for more details, no one in there lives posh that's for sure, so the "penalty" money must be going to someone a bit higher in the food chain.

RW

This is a bit puzzling to me .I understood that duty free goods were bought in duty free areas such as on board a ship ,Airoplane or the the duty free transit area of an airport where you have been deemed to have left the country.
The shops in Laos say duty free but are really not as they are inside Laos and beer ,Whisky and cigarettes are more expensive on the bridge than in Vientiane . The goods in Laos are cheaper than Thailand but i have never seen a tax exempt or duty free sign on anything i have bought on the bridge.
When i lived in Germany and came home to uk i could only bring the normal 200 cigs and 1 litre of spirits duty free but i could bring as much as i wanted that was bought in German shops and was already tax paid and not duty free.
As far as i can tell nothing bought in those shops is duty free.
There must be just rules for bringing any goods in Thailand from Laos , tax paid or not. TiT
ww

Yes they have started a formal complaint and also publicised this low life scam by these cheating Nong Khai customs officers. It would be very helpful to know the name of the village where they are disposing of the cigarettes they have stolen. No doubt they are corruptly aligned with the Thai mafia, or a big whig in the Thai Government.

I also have to warn others that these scum bags are operating out of the car park at Nong Khai and you can get busted even if you have just purchased one carton each, the legal limit for bringing back to Thailand. All it takes is for one of you to hold the others bag containing both allowances so that one of you is carrying to your car more than one persons allowance, and these customs photo you digitally. Even when your with a Thai lady they are all deemed to be your cigarettes. They will first of all try to force you to pay 40 times 480 baht for both cartons but maybe if your lucky will take 4800 baht total from you,The alternative will be being locked up in Thai jail awaiting Court and then having to pay a lawyer and bail money which will be much more than the fine. This is a Government backed scam too as the amount of 480 is much higher than Thais have to pay assuming they do ever catch any of their fine countrymen that is. This scam is also going on now at Swampy and I have even heard of it at Phuket, so seems like the latest National Thai scam aimed at foreigners. One of the customs guys involved in this only has one hand. Probably too much w......nking or maybe someone cut it off for stealing too much, or putting it in his mates pockets who knows ???

I

When you encounter these scammers you have to be thankful if you get away with only losing money, and no jail time. Read the book called Send them to Hell by Sebastian Williams and see just how easily they can stitch you up if they choose to plant narcotics, and how much he was being asked to pay in bribes to the Thai police to get off. He served 15 years rotting in Bangkok jail for drugs which a ferrang who had been caught overstaying planted on him as instructed by Thai mafioso police. Someone out here should come out with scam insurance cover for ferrangs, but hey maybe it wouldn't be too profitable for those offering the insurance, as with the amount of scams being operated claims would be arriving every day, and the premiums would have to be very high.

Sorry it is NOT a scam if you are caught crossing the border with more than the allowance.
In any country ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Each person is allowed 200 cigarettes if you stick to that nothing will happen to you.
I know because I have been stopped after crossing in at Nong Khai by these officers & was met with nothing more than disappointed faces when they searched my baggage & found just 200 cigarettes.
Stay within the law & people have little to fear from any Thai official. Step outside it & expect to suffer the consequences - which can often be very severe.

If you attempt to enter the UK with more than your allowance & are caught ALL your cigarettes are taken from you as well & you are fined and have to pay the duty that you tried to avoid.. I didn't know is no excuse there either...

I am sorry to have to disagree with you but this is a scam and I disagree with you when you say if you stick to the 200 cigarette limit nothing will happen to you. Try entering Thailand with a friend or group of friends, all buying one carton each as per your lawful allowance. Then you carry your friends cigarettes for them either at Swampy airport or at Nong Khai and see what happens to you and how much money you end up paying. Thailand also has a dual fine pricing system where foreigners are paying four times more when caught - this is also clearly scamming and discriminating against foreigners. Thirdly it is a scam to say that all the cigarettes are the foreigners in a group of Thai and foreign people making the crossing into Thailand. This is only done to maximise the take. they are also scamming since the fine in question exceeded the amount that they were entitled to fine for the quantity over the limit. If all of this does not constitute a scam then maybe the revelation that the cigarettes which were confiscated are reportedly being sold by the customs officers despite people being told they will be burnt. This is sir a disgusting scam, and abuse of power, and a costly trap which any foreigner can fall into - even those sticking to their allowance.

If one person entered the UK carrying ALL the allowance for a group of friends then they also would have a huge problem.

Disobeying the law of a country & then bleating about what happens does not constitute a scam.

For the last 10 years I have been entering Thailand (by a variety of routes) every 3 months. That is at least 30 occasions. I have had my baggage searched on numerous occasions. I have never, however, had any issue with any Officer. Neither have I had to pay 1 baht in fines nor had any goods confiscated..
Am I lucky??
NO - I obey the law.

What happens to confiscated material that people attempted to bring into the country illegally is a matter completely between the Government of Thailand & its' employees. If it is felt that officers will be extra vigilant if they are profiting from seized goods then that would seem to be a sensible approach to take.

If it IS a scam then kindly produce evidence of people who have suffered from it when obeying the law...

BobHelm wrote:Sorry it is NOT a scam if you are caught crossing the border with more than the allowance.
In any country ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Each person is allowed 200 cigarettes if you stick to that nothing will happen to you.
I know because I have been stopped after crossing in at Nong Khai by these officers & was met with nothing more than disappointed faces when they searched my baggage & found just 200 cigarettes.
Stay within the law & people have little to fear from any Thai official. Step outside it & expect to suffer the consequences - which can often be very severe.

If you attempt to enter the UK with more than your allowance & are caught ALL your cigarettes are taken from you as well & you are fined and have to pay the duty that you tried to avoid.. I didn't know is no excuse there either...

What a load of complete crap again ! I have never been robbed , murdered or had an accident in Thailand so it cannot possibly happen!! Mightyvan you are mostly correct it is a scam but not easy to say to the udon farang as they do not live in the same Thailand as the rest of us . Anyone who lives in Thailand who thinks the thai people on that bridge will not scam you they are living in cuckoo land .
I lived in europe for about 10 yrs and travelled to uk about 6 times a year , was always over the limit , got caught abut 6 times and was always given the choice of pay the duty or they confiscate the excess was never fined and the excess always made the goods a little more expensive than if i had bought them in uk so mr righteous Helm you are talking about something which as you say has never happened to you so you are posting about something that you know absolutely nothing about.
ww

Yes, scamming is endemic in SE Asia but I think Bob's trying to argue that you don't give them a chance to do such. Keep your nose clean in Thailand and stay under the RADAR.

Ah, I see Welsh Wizard, if you have a personal experience of something then it is valid & worthy of mention.
If I have a personal experience of something it is "a complete load of crap"...
Interesting...

However you have not pointed out how the enforcement of a law can be held up to be a scam.
It is exactly the same as being fined for not wearing a helmet. You are NOT fined if you are wearing one.
It is not a scam, it is called law enforcement.

I must be missing something here ... how can it be called a scam if you are breaking the law .

If you drive thru a red light and get stopped you pay a fine , its not a scam as you broke the law , how is bringing in more than your allowance of any items over the border different other than the way that the goods are " confiscated " , the value of the goods is the fine and if you have more than the legal limit you are breaking the law .. so wheres the scam ?

DM

Agreed.

As Bob pointed out:

Each person is allowed 200 cigarettes if you stick to that nothing will happen to you.
I know because I have been stopped after crossing in at Nong Khai by these officers & was met with nothing more than disappointed faces when they searched my baggage & found just 200 cigarettes.

I actually took great delight in hearing of the officers' disappointment upon reading it earlier.

Carry only 200. Don't carry your friend's cigs. Show us somebody who only had their allowance and got fined.

Ultimate solution, don't smoke.

The fine is a bit Draconian, but break the rules and the risk is up to you, being a farang means they can squeeze harder. Same with carrying more than 1 litre of spirits - were stopped last year, but no spirits, just lots of wine, they said 'only looking for whiskey' fortunately.
WW's experience in Europe was lucky - paying extra duty is at the discretion of the customs officer, they can take you to court if they wanted - just too much paper work for them.

Drunk Monkey wrote:I must be missing something here ... how can it be called a scam if you are breaking the law .

You right, They unwittingly broke the law. But it is a scam when a uninformed person is told by the duty free shop that the limit is 400 when they know its 200, then tips off his customs buddy on the other side so they can both profit from the fines.

They had been informed by the duty free shops at Laos that they could bring back 400 cigarettes each into Thailand with no problem. This was incorrect as the allowance is 200 per person. My friend was confronted by customs in the car park, and he suspects that the customs officers already knew that the limit for cigarettes had been over exceeded since only he was pounced on.

Also seems odd that every report I hear about people getting nailed by customs happens in the car park. Don't they have a proper checkpoint where you clear immigration? Of course they do, so why do they wait till they get you away from the crowd out in the parking lot if there not doing something that is somewhat of a scam?

Whilst I agree with Bob it can't be a scam if you are trying to evade duty and are caught, I must say the operation as described, taking place in the car park and even after a car chase as previously mentioned, certainly would appear to be a sting outside of normal customs procedure.

The reason they do this in the car park is because they are hoping that one of you may carry the allowance of another in your group. They pounce when one person is holding the bags. As a group of people or as a couple, the total of cigarettes you have may not exceed the groups allowances, but if one person is carrying then the customs quickly take a picture and claim possession is nine tenths of the law. All that the one unfortunate person is carrying will be deemed to be his/hers and everything over one pack of 200 will be liable for a whopping 480 baht per 20 cigarettes fine. It is a slimy and crafty practice, as in the car park area you are much more likely to pass bags between each other and if your a gent may offer to carry your lady or ladies bags. They are also doing this at Swampy airport where there has been many reports of ferrangs being confronted in the public areas after having passed through customs.

In response to Bob Helm's comments :

Yes it is correct that if one person was carrying others peoples cigarette allowances through customs in the UK they would have a problem, but only at the customs nothing to declare or bag inspection areas. In the UK you wouldn't see customs officers rushing to photograph you in the car park of Heathrow the minute you carried your partner/wife's bag for her containing her allowance. Also in the UK they don't have differing penalty rates for those that are caught. Maybe they should introduce in the UK a higher penalty rate for Thai people or for ex pats living in Thailand if caught and a rate four times lower for full UK citizens. How would you feel about that ? I also don't agree that the illegal profiteering from the proceeds of crime by Thai custom officers should just be a matter between the Thai Government and its employees. It is profiting from the proceeds of crime, and demonstrates corruption and dishonesty on those serving the Government.Profiting from the proceeds of crime is illegal and Internationally accepted as wrong. To suggest that custom officers should be incentivised by being allowed to sell off privately contraband or seized goods is not right either, as this would only lead to more corruption and dishonesty. This is why in the UK ceased cigarettes are destroyed. You have also failed to accept that my friend was charged a penalty far higher than the lawful and correct penalty of four times the rate of duty for the quantity of cigarettes - is that not scamming ??? I think that in this case the evidence speaks for itself, and if you cant see that then maybe you need to take your sun glasses off ! Whilst I am happy for you that you have never experienced any problems with customs, and I hope it continues that way for you, defending what is wrong and unacceptable is not acceptable to me, and I wonder what others on the forum think ? I note that some have already declared that they feel it was a scam. Maybe they read the evidence presented in the posts ???? I did like Welsh Wizard's response also, and I think that I should "bleat on" about this scam so that as many people as possible don't get scammed by the Thai Customs