everyone is missing the big picture, how about we reciprocate , how about we tell them ok make it a hard brit exit, well then, how about we return our guest workers to france , all of them. what I see here is the European federal state trying to annex the uk using political and economics strategies. the total lack of respect for democracy is glaring at us . it is in fact the completion of a process that started in 1939 by Germany. if we fail in this, then democracy fails. We as British need to face the fact that we are at war, not with any country , but with an idea. after the fall of communism all of expansion of state should have faded, but it went the other way, Europe expanded. with NATO busy moving troops and weapons next to Russian boarders and at the same time accusing Russia of aggression .
we have been fooled, led to believe the EU project was about harmony ,democracy and justice. its not,its about capitalism ,greed and control of the masses, this is not a conspiracy it a fact.
sadly its working, as our hope now relies with the Americans saving our ass from the European expansion.... hang on didn't we do this before ? a couple of times ?

Quite the opposite Papa.

The UK wants out of paying any bills for being a member of a club but still wants all the benefits of membership.
Quite rightly, in any circumstance, the remaining members of the club are going to tell them to get stuffed.

It is true that the UK can do 'tit for tat' in areas like 'guest workers' but that is going to leave parts of industry in the UK without any labour - as no UK person is going to take on the work with the bad working conditions associated with it. So there is not going to be any ejection of EU workers already in the country before Brexit that is for sure. The queen Bee in number 10 has already stated as much..

& anyone who thinks that the UK is going to get any economic favours from either Wall Street in chief Clinton or Isolationist in chief Trump is going to get a very severe shock. Either will have enough economic woes of their own to deal with back in the US of A...

what we need then Bob is to get out of the EU so those crappy jobs can be improved in conditions and pay. I've been back for a couple of month, I can assure you plenty of British are working in low paid hard work that British are said not to want, last month I visited a farm where they were finishing up for the winter. I was talking to a guy and his wife who run a market stall, and every morning he came to the farm to pick produce, while his wife worked at the market. as for the farmer, he admitted 50% of his pickers were probably illegal ,working for below minimum wage. and how it gets away with it... simply put up a sign saying PYO (pick your own), they pick fruit and then he buys directly from the pickers, no tax ,no national insurance and no responsibility to workers. and the best thing ,its not illegal either. a gang master brings them every morning, the farmer buys the picked fruit giving the money direct, when the gang master turns up to collect, he puts his hand out to every fruit picker for some cash for bringing them there and dropping them off . good for the farmer, good for the gang master ,but crappy for the British and European workers .and all possible under EU regulations

papafarang wrote:but crappy for the British and European workers .and all possible under EU regulations

There you are very wrong Papa. It is illegal under EU law.

One of the things that people do not realise is that for the last 15 years the only makers of laws that have attempted to protect the worker have been made by the EU. The British Government has done nothing - worse it has permitted things like zero hours contracts - things that are impossible to do in other European countries.
Anyone that thinks that the rights of workers will get better under Brexit has only to look at where the laws protecting workers rights have come from - none have come from the British Labour or Conservative Governments for the last 15 years - it is foolish to think that things are going to get better now - rather the opposite!!

The EU, for all its' faults is quite happy to stand up to the likes of Google, Apple & the large Chemical companies. The British Government, on the other hand, makes them pay taxation that is a criminal representation of what they should be paying.
The EU was one of the last chances for countries to stand up to multinationals, the British Government will be licking their shoes in no time at all...

well Bob I think we're pretty much up poo river what ever we do. as for those workers there seen as self employed, he don't even know their names ,and he don't care sadly. yes Bob that zero hour contracts is disgusting and the root of worker exploitation

Bob, if the rest of the members of the club were all paying the same membership fee then fair enough. This is why the EU is pissed at the UK leaving, who is going to make up for the 10 Billion shortfall ?? Probably not the surrender monkey's and the Germans are starting to say enoughs enough.

& areas like Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland got huge development grants off the EU budget as well..

Is Westminster going to match those, I doubt it - Parliament in Westminster have had little regard for anything outside the City of London for more years than I can remember!!!

Well,if the Pound slides much further then a bottle of Archa will be regarded as a treat for many Brits and a packet of McVities Chocolate Digestives out of reach for many over here !

Zidane wrote:Well,if the Pound slides much further then a bottle of Archa will be regarded as a treat for many Brits and a packet of McVities Chocolate Digestives out of reach for many over here !

and loads of Europeans heading home as the land of milk and honey turned sour. but we survived a 1000 years of wars, the black death and Maggie thatcher, leaving Europe will just be another hiccup .as for doom and gloom merchants ,get over it an crack on.

& areas like Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland got huge development grants off the EU budget as well..
Bob, do me a favour and remind me where these HUGE development grants went. But there are huge new buildings in Brussels and then we decamp for a week every month to some other city just to make sure we are fair????

Between 2014–2020, Wales will benefit from around £1.8bn European Structural Funds investment.

http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/2014-2020/?lang=en

EU funding programmes

European Structural Funds – Support people into work and training, youth employment, research and innovation, business (SMEs) competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, and connectivity and urban development.
Common Agricultural Policy – A £200m a year scheme providing payments to more than 16,000 farms in Wales to help protect and enhance the countryside.
Welsh Government Rural Communities - Rural Development Programme 2014-2020 – A £957m programme supporting businesses, farmers, the countryside, and communities in rural areas.
European Maritime Fisheries Fund – Supporting sustainable development within the fishing and aquaculture sectors , the conservation of the marine environment, and growth and jobs in coastal communities.

Other EU funds

EU funds are also available to organisations and individuals through other EU programmes:

COSME (external link) – Helps to increase business competitiveness with assistance to improve access to finance and markets.
Erasmus+ (external link) – Offers opportunities for UK participants to study, work, volunteer, teach and train abroad in Europe.
Creative Europe (external link) – Supports the cultural and creative sectors, enabling them to reach new audiences, develop skills for the digital age and safeguard cultural and linguistic diversity.
Connecting Europe Facility (external link) – Investing in trans-European networks and infrastructures in the sectors of transport, telecommunications and energy.
LIFE (external link) – Supports nature, biodiversity, conservation, environmental and climate change projects.
EaSI (external link) – Aims to support employment, social policy and labour mobility across the EU.

Scotland set to lose £200m a year in funding after UK leaves EU

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-s ... -1-4167989

EU Funding in Northern Ireland

https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/news ... eland-0_en
specifically the pdf file...

http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/sites ... 2020_1.pdf

So Poland, Greece, Spain, Italy are all giving us money to improve our lives. We put in about 20B per year and then someone decides that we can have back approx 50% on what some idiot thinks is important.

EU funding programmes

European Structural Funds – Support people into work and training, youth employment, research and innovation, business (SMEs) competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, and connectivity and urban development.
Common Agricultural Policy – A £200m a year scheme providing payments to more than 16,000 farms in Wales to help protect and enhance the countryside.
Welsh Government Rural Communities - Rural Development Programme 2014-2020 – A £957m programme supporting businesses, farmers, the countryside, and communities in rural areas.
European Maritime Fisheries Fund – Supporting sustainable development within the fishing and aquaculture sectors , the conservation of the marine environment, and growth and jobs in coastal communities.

Other EU funds

EU funds are also available to organisations and individuals through other EU programmes:

COSME (external link) – Helps to increase business competitiveness with assistance to improve access to finance and markets.
Erasmus+ (external link) – Offers opportunities for UK participants to study, work, volunteer, teach and train abroad in Europe.
Creative Europe (external link) – Supports the cultural and creative sectors, enabling them to reach new audiences, develop skills for the digital age and safeguard cultural and linguistic diversity.
Connecting Europe Facility (external link) – Investing in trans-European networks and infrastructures in the sectors of transport, telecommunications and energy.
LIFE (external link) – Supports nature, biodiversity, conservation, environmental and climate change projects.
EaSI (external link) – Aims to support employment, social policy and labour mobility across the EU.


Please read this rubbish and then think about the Butter Mountains, the Sugar Mountains,youth employment, the worst in living memory. "The conservation of the marine environment, and growth and jobs in coastal communities", the UK's fishing industry and communities have been decimated.

For me a significant reason/justification in the UK brexiting was to re-gain control over our own destiny, to regain our democracy. Thus I am happy with the outcome of the referendum.

The decision has been taken and it's a case of moving forwards from here.

Agree mate, just don't like being called a Turkey by B(W)
ankers

Well, 3 months on, and the only progress so far is a pound now 20% down on the beginning of the year ......

Leaving will not miraculously solve anything. People blame the decline in the fishing industry on the EU, but the reality is that the fishing industry peaked over 100 years ago - and most other countries in Europe have had catches decline by a much greater amount than the UK. What helped kill the fisheries was industrial fishing for fishmeal in the North sea.

It now turns out that right before he turned his coat, BoJo wrote that EU membership was a “boon for the world and for Europe.”
Who needs enemies with friends like that?

Rick
Do not disagree with your comment on industrial fishing, but why should it be Spanish, French boats that are allowed to do it rather than UK boats. We did not strip the Med, Brittany coastlines they did, and then were allowed to come into our waters on a quota basis to kill off the North Sea. As for the UK Pound decline by 20%, who apart from the City spivs and bookies can fathom that one out. We are still at least 2.5 years away from any real changes, just money grabbing as usual.

Yesterday the High Court ruled that the Prime Minister alone cannot trigger article 50 & start the Brexit negotiations.
The court ruled that only Parliament is authorised to do this - obviously after a discussion on the matter, resulting in an Act of Parliament.

The Government will appeal the decision to the Supreme Court which will take place next month.

If the ruling is upheld it will completely unravel the current Government's policy.
That is based on the ability to negotiate & conclude an agreement based on what the EU offers.
An Act of Parliament would greatly restrict the areas of negotiation as it would set out a 'non-negotiable' bottom line.

If the Supreme Court uphold the High Court decision then it could easily lead to a General Election based largely on what Brexit actually means,.
That would undoubtedly actually split the vote of the former Brexiters, between the Hard Brexit & Soft Brexit factions that have developed since the referendum.

Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.....

Boris Johnson promised yesterday to make a ‘Titanic success’ of Brexit.

• http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/bo ... ic-success