patriot wrote:Pete, could I just ask is the situation
(a) that she won't get the family's blessing to go to Oz or
(b) that they are not letting her go,
If b) how can they possibly stop her seeing as she is relativley independent.
Am I missing something here.
This is not a sarcastic post because I am, after all, British. (Cue Texpat)

(a) above. In reality they can do nothing to stop her but my understanding of the bond (and expectations) within Thai families is that it is a lot stronger than we in the west are used to and I am reluctant to break that bond if the family is otherwise decent (which it is).

Tilokarat wrote:It is fairly obvious why the mother of the girl does not want her daughter to be with this guy in Australia. He exudes arrogance and hostility. She is thinking of the welfare of her daughter, and understands him quite well.

As for advice, change your attitude to people, and you may find that the mother may even come to like you, but it is going to take a lot of work on your part judging by your posts.

Nice piece of online psychoanalysis. You have never met me, never will meet me, and haven't a clue what you are talking about. FYI, her mother likes me a lot, but why let the truth get in the way of another sarcastic and bombastic reply?

Well, you never know, stranger things have happened. I mean about the meeting part.

In answer to your initial question Pete, I don't think you can, (get the family to change their mindset etc).

You have probably gathered by now that the Thais are very traditional, stubborn, stuck in their ways, family orientated etc, and the family matriarch is the head honcho so invariably what she says goes. Unless your g/f is prepared to go against her mothers wishes and virtually cause a massive rift in the family, I think you're fighting a losing battle here....well in the short term anyway...things may change if you can prove your worth over time and as the Mother gains more confidence and trust in you, and of course you can provide the lost income the daughter generated for the family. Yes she is a commodity, another form of providing income, you will have to get used to this idea because no matter were the g/f goes with you, if she is a good daughter she will always endeavour to send as much money to the Mother as she, (or rather you), can afford. It is a good system, it has worked in Thailand for many hundreds of years, I don't think you will be able to change it but good luck in your quest.

Thank you Eazy Going and Rick for your sensible and considered replies.

Pete, I think you forget a few things re your gf.

Having a good government job (army major is such one) has very important advantages.
Firstly there is a continuation of the job ( you can't be sacked) and of the money involved. In contradiction of your opinion 20K baht is quite some money for a Thai and enough to feed a whole family if necessary. In the same advantage package is the guarantee to have a military pension once your gf is leaving the army for age reasons.

Secondly anyone working for the government can have bank loans without any problem, eg financing a car, buying a house or land. This is very important for Thais as it makes them "higher" in their society.

Now look what she will lose when coming to you:
No secure job
No secure income
No independency (because of job)
No high position in society
No family around
No friends around
No ability to speak the language properly
No Thai culture

Just to name what comes into my mind.

Perhaps you can see this part of the "deal" and not only your own benevolent (money) part. Money cannot buy all that is needed for a happy life and your gf has a happy life for a Thai. Your point that you earn in a week what she earns in a month is BS as you pay much more to live in Oz than she does to live in LOS!
Family ties are very very strong in Thailand (my marriage broke up partly because of that) and any farang coming to take a daughter away out of the country has a hard time.

Now you say where is the solution?
I would advise to sit down with the family and talk in a friendly and constructive way (you are too negative now). Understand their concerns, NOT talk about money as their daughter/sister is more important to them. Try to make the future visible and understandable for them. Don't forget your gf has nothing left if she returns without you!

I wish you the wisdom to find the right words and solutions.

Cheers
Joe

Thanks Joe

In one of my earlier posts I mentioned about her debt as a result of her ex husband. Unfortunately because of this she is not able to secure a loan. I have sorted out using solicitors another loan which she was liable for having gone guarantor for her ex (or husband at the time), and the thing is in reality she could never, ever pay the loan out. She was therefore technically in debt/owing the bank 10 million B. Like I said, I have sorted things out and in 4 years she may be able to get a credit rating again. Having said that, in all honesty she couldn't afford any more loans.

It is not BS about the money. Things in Oz are not 4 times the price as Thailand, apart from houses. In addition there is my (and would be hers) 19 day working month, 35 days leave a year, 15 paid sick days a year which accumulate, job security, paid overtime at double time, employer contributed superannuation of 9% of your wage, salary sacrafice to save on tax, a clean, safe and multicultural environment, reliable infrastructure, transparent processes, no visa run...I could go on.

There is quite a sizable Thai population where I live and a Thai society, Thai restaurants and Thai food stalls. She doesn't socialise much at home, working late and having a son to take care of, so a huge gathering of friends is not her greatest need. Her English is good, and will improve while living here, sufficiently to work as a nurse, with the associated money and conditions mentioned above.

Can I once again point out that she doesn't have the problem coming here, it's her mum and brother. She can see the advantages, not least to her child's education, and our original plan was to be 20 years until the boy was sorted out, but I revised my plan to a 5 year plan to see if that would win approval.

I realise I will have to negotiate with the family and that the family is number one. Last night I had a brain storm...when she comes across here for a holiday to see Oz, bring mum with her. Sometimes seeing the grass can be greener for everyone involved including her grandson, can be the catalyst for change. I have to be honest, I can not think of any better place in the world for a kid to grow up than in Oz, and that will become apparent to all visitors. My plan broke don because they do not trust 'uncle' (who isn't part of the family), to steal things from the house and sell them when they are away. Of course I told her the options, like warning 'uncle' to do the right thing or be out on his ear, but it seems the level of mistrust is that high!

It looks like I may have a long and hard time persuading mum and brother that her living with me is the best all round.

Thanks for your best wishes.
Cheers
Pete

I would imagine the family looks at the 38-year-old Army major nurse as their goose who will continue to lay golden eggs through good times or bad, for better or worse -- unless she moves off to Oz with some paleface.

She is insurance to them -- especially mother. And Thai children are beholden to their parents -- owe their parents.

If she moves away -- out of sight, out of mind ...

Until you can convince her that life in Oz would be better than the life she has known for 38 years in Thailand, it'll be rough sledding. How many years till you're ready to hang up the stethoscope?

Getting visas for the whole family to visit might prove an enormous hurdle.

Are you currently subsidizing her salary?

Is it really that easy to get a Thai girlfriend and her child a visa / residency / work permit etc for OZ ?
It would be very difficult for her to get a visa for her and her child to live in the UK considering you are not married, its not your child and she cannot support herself or child. I have to jump through hoops including showing financial statements proving I can support my Thai wife and son when taking them for holidays in the UK for just a couple of weeks.

OT.............

Texpat wrote:I would imagine the family looks at the 38-year-old Army major nurse as their goose who will continue to lay golden eggs through good times or bad, for better or worse -- unless she moves off to Oz with some paleface.

She is insurance to them -- especially mother. And Thai children are beholden to their parents -- owe their parents.

If she moves away -- out of sight, out of mind ...

Until you can convince her that life in Oz would be better than the life she has known for 38 years in Thailand, it'll be rough sledding. How many years till you're ready to hang up the stethoscope?

Getting visas for the whole family to visit might prove an enormous hurdle.

Are you currently subsidizing her salary?

I am 46 years young and can work until I drop! I enjoy my job immensely and it gives me great satisfaction. To be honest I am not ready for retirement for another 14 years at least.

Am I subsidising her salary? Yes 10K/month, and have just forked out 14K for 5 new tyres for her ute.
She also hates her current job and the people she works with, but I suppose until she sees Oz she won't know if she can live here or not. Visa question in the next post.

old-timer wrote:Is it really that easy to get a Thai girlfriend and her child a visa / residency / work permit etc for OZ ?
It would be very difficult for her to get a visa for her and her child to live in the UK considering you are not married, its not your child and she cannot support herself or child. I have to jump through hoops including showing financial statements proving I can support my Thai wife and son when taking them for holidays in the UK for just a couple of weeks.

OT.............

The visa for residency would go under the spouse visa, which has some conditions attached to it to protect the Aussie, but in all honesty it doesn't appear that hard to get, having spoken to friends. Yes, I will have to show financial statements etc, and I am prepared to go through all that BS.

In theory, she could work in Oz under what is called a 457 visa. This is a visa that allows foreign nationals to work in Oz if there is no Australian to do the job basically. Many, many nurses I know from India, Zimbabwe, the Phillipines, Canada, USA, Germany and more are on 457s and they then get the hospital to sponsor them for full residency, because there is a chronic shortage of nurses in Oz, and moreso up here where I live in the tropics. Unfortunately she would not at this stage pass the IELTS test for English proficiency, so a 457 is out, however it would be my intention to let her live and work here under the spouse visa, and study English. Indeed, the Australian govt gives free English classes to migrants.

Getting the holiday visa could again seem problematic, but because (and I hear my critics saying-see, govt job, army etc, it pays off!) she is in the position she is in and can get a letter from her employer to the effect that she is who she is and has a job to go back to, with the rest of the BS a holiday visa should be easy. The Australian govt is only worried about overstayers and Asian girls getting into prostitution, but with her credentials she should be a good risk.

Visas are not my concern OT because they are achievable goals, my concern is the future.


Now, what I could do is get my TEFL qualification and live in UT for say 9 months of the year and return to Darwin to work as a nurse for say 3. I say 3 because I can get nurses accommodation for only up to that period of time for $260/fortnight and considering with shifts I'll be clearing $1800-1900 a fn, I can save loads. I would rent my house out to pay off the mortgage and keep it as an asset. That is an option, but basically my final one as it has no long-term security or financial benefits compared to her living here, but we'll see. Anyway, if I live in UT in the near future I'll have ex-pats queuing up to give me a kicking

Ah you intend to be a teacher, so I am assuming that an arrogant self opinionated person like you will be able to teach the poor children we have here in Thailand, they will then if I assume correctly be taught by a far more superior being as you have indicated that anyone working in Thailand if they get a pittance ( your words ) can do far better in Australia.
Well pete, live on your dreams judging by your posts you may have the command of the language but interpreting that for the assimilation of Thais is another question entirely.
You asked for this post to be closed, yet you still post even more twaddle on how you will deal with the current and all future situations.
So get on with it and stop boring us with your tirades.

Mnay of us I have stated before have tried to assist you but you still give the impression many of us wasted our time, newbie you certainly are, stupid that is still up for discussion, enjoy Australia, I am sure it deserves you.

Khun Paul wrote:Ah you intend to be a teacher, so I am assuming that an arrogant self opinionated person like you will be able to teach the poor children we have here in Thailand, they will then if I assume correctly be taught by a far more superior being as you have indicated that anyone working in Thailand if they get a pittance ( your words ) can do far better in Australia.
Well pete, live on your dreams judging by your posts you may have the command of the language but interpreting that for the assimilation of Thais is another question entirely.
You asked for this post to be closed, yet you still post even more twaddle on how you will deal with the current and all future situations.
So get on with it and stop boring us with your tirades.

Mnay of us I have stated before have tried to assist you but you still give the impression many of us wasted our time, newbie you certainly are, stupid that is still up for discussion, enjoy Australia, I am sure it deserves you.

Well, I have rattled your cage. Like I said to another poster, you don't know me, you have no idea what I am like IRL. I have spent my entire working life dealing with people in all sorts of circumstances. I am a nurse now and I will tell you what, my patients love me. Don't mistake assertiveness online with my empathy IRL.

I asked for the post to be closed but it wasn't, and I got a few good replies, until your negativity once again prevailed, tell you what Khun Paul, if I am boring you, ignore me, easy really, and there ends my first lesson.

petemcc, you are going to have to move to UT or things are not going to work out between you and this bird. Even then things won't be what you expect.

OT...........

Yes, and have no money, boo hoo.

so she makes 20k and you add another 10k, no wonder they do not want her to go !!!!
6k-10k being a salary most thai women work long days for

She does not want to go, no matter what she tells you. If she wanted she would go (after selling the benefits to her mom)

Sorry but at the age of 38 as stated by someone else she has her own mind ,, and if she REALLY wanted to be with you she would be ,,,,,, she could be hiding behind the family excuse for not wanting to go or mabe like some Thai girls is genuinly married to her family in which case your wasting your time ,, I had a similar experience with a lovely girl , but her family would allways come before me , it would never had worked out so I cut my losses ,, and am now married 2 years to a little peach !
Having said all that I left the bigger thai sites to get away from trolling ,,,,havent seen much on here , untill now ( mabe )

So I am a troll now?

Pete,you keep stating that we don't know you!In person,that is true.But what we do know is that you come on the forum as a newbie,seemingly humble and asking for advice on many topics,we longterm expats give you our advice and some ,even,expertise regarding your topics.

Immediately ,we learn alot about you;not so humble,argumentative,already an arrogant thinker of expertise in fields where you asked for advice,defensive against criticism,very egotistical about personal perceived or real ability to master things quickly,jump around to various ideas of employment or business ideas without any real basic understanding of the legality of certain jobs or employment regs regarding Thai employee mandates with no seeminly understanding of the ''real'' customer base or ideal business location and practices etc.etc.!

And you actually wonder why some are started to ''feel'' that you might be doing some ''trolling''???

My personal perception is that.whether you are goodhearted or not,you are probably very controlling,self important and think you know best for not only yourself(your right),but also for your Thai GF,her family and her future(not your right ,and you could be very wrong).Which is another way of saying the your Western arrogance has not yet been recognized by yourself(very and almost absolute trait in most of us,taking many years of living here to change for some,including myself)!

You invite extra criticism as a newbie ,when you ask for advice,then argue and criticize the answers!Maybe ,it might help you to understand us(if you have any real interest"),if you go back and reread your posts and responses!
I have lived here continuosly for 13+ years,married 10+ and have a stepdaughter 18 1/2 who is prepping for University.I also hold a BS in Nursing with 3 other majors including psychology,worked many years as a Psych nurse and Unit supervisor with several years as a drug and alcohol rehab counselor before that!Does that make me right and an expert,NO,but I do have many years of life experience to share as I have related to and with life,which you can accept or reject,so be it!Most of us learn by our mistakes,I am absolutely no exception to this,I would suggest you look for your ''mistakes'' and listen to the experience of those you chose to seek advice from,there is no reason to argue with responses,unless that is your pleasure