Estimates of tourism receipts directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from 9 percent (one trillion baht) (2013) to 17.7 percent (2.53 trillion baht) in 2016.[1][2] When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP

oh yes pesky tourists bringing in 2.3 trillion baht and there's a few bad apples putting such a strain on the government resources, especially those stupid ones that get themselves killed on motorbikes or go out on dodgy boat trips, swimming
or even eating thai food.
I read that unpaid hospital bills came to just over $21,000,000. well rocket scientists will be able to work out that if you divide that by the 30,000,000 tourists that come here ,well you can work it out. thing is the government should cover it , it's a dangerous country due to poor safety standards...again just people in power shirking responsibility to guests in this country
the problem with compulsory insurance is this, they floated the idea of a $15 payment....$450,000,000 in the kitty to cover $21,000,000. how about a compulsory $1. and that's what we are talking about , this strain of a few cents

A couple of things
I have used the same pfd letter for the last 10+ years, just update with any new info. This time when getting it Notarize, he checked the info against my passport, then he ask me what this was, I was a little dumbfounded by the question, and answered.

So using the link the Embassy supplied, I download a new letter yesterday.
New letter

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $____________________ from sources in the United States. I am applying for a Thai visa/extension of a current Thai visa, and any assistance you can provide in this request will be greatly appreciated. The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein.

The red text is a new added sentence, but should have been a known fact to any American who signs a Notarized document.

I also ask if they would be doing these "OutReach" next year, his answer was yes, "people can get other doc's Notarized, renew passport, ect". Was going to say easier to mail for passport renewal, but said thanks & bye.
This was the longest "Time wise" that I have seen, and the number was normal, or as someone said, "Not a record".

When leaving, said to wife "last time I can can get this letter". Guess we will need to go to Lao, as in Move to.
She said she would check with cousin in Bangkok.

I've seen some Expat videos on the internet talking about what documents are required to substantiate monthly income for the retirement extension. In the video they supposedly had a translated copy of the original Immigration Police Order that lays out in detail certain documents as in a pension letter, a government document on how much social security you get and others. I tried to find a link to the "translation" but couldn't find it. I did find a link to Thai Immigration Police Region 1's website where they have a FAQ section which says:

2. Question : What is the required age of the alien wishing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;
1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.
- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)
- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or
2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;
2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

No listing of any other approved documents for monthly income in it.... Until clarification of the policy comes down that will accept perhaps a U.S. 1099R (Pension Tax document) or 1099S (Social Security tax document) or some other alternative looks like we're stuck with the rules as above. That is of course taking into consideration the last call is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer adjudicating your extension.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

tamada wrote: ↑

November 9, 2018, 10:35 pm

And there you have it AGAIN. The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements. Having Consular staff copy and paste numbers from UK paperwork for the Britishers isn't a verification. The hand-on-heart malarkey for the Americans and Australians even less so.

The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot Be bothered to do the work to VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements.

My opinion is that the amendment above is probably a more accurate statement of the BE position and attitude towards the people who they should be looking after.

papafarang wrote: ↑

November 9, 2018, 6:37 am

.... I read that unpaid hospital bills came to just over $21,000,000 ....

I did mean to include unpaid hospital bills in my earlier post, suggesting that WAS one thing about farangs being a drain on Thailand. But from your post, the total is not really a significant figure, is it? (A CONFIRMED figure of 300,000 baht per day for a friend's intensive care in a top hospital here is, nevertheless, individually a bit frightening!) I wonder if your figure includes money owed to government hospitals, as I was under the impression that the private sector would ship one off there as soon as possible, once they discovered you hadn't the money to pay. :-"

Lone Star wrote: ↑

November 8, 2018, 2:06 pm

1. There's nothing carved in stone yet. May not ever be, but things haven't completely filtered down to local immigration offices. We are not going to get many answers there yet. I've been and asked and had some Thai contacts ask for me. Lots of hems and haws.

2. Taking advice in here is good to know what everyone is hearing and experiencing, but it's still best to check on your own. We all know that whatever happens for you or me or someone else today, may not happen for any of us tomorrow -- or only for some of us. I sure as hell am not going to show up on renewal day armed only with what I hear on any forum. Get to your local immigration office and start greasing the wheels.

=====

When I first heard about this, I made contact with one of my police buddies of 10 years in Khon Kaen. He called his wife in BKK, who is an officer with Immigration.

This is what I was told.

The good falangs are suffering for the bad. This is an effort to get rid of falangs who can't afford to be here due to the economic strain that it has put on the private sector and government bureaus. Those who can meet the requirements will be allowed to stay. The rest will not be able to stay. This a purge. Plain and simple. There are also plans to be more thorough in investigating marriages to insure they are legit.

The money requirements as they stand today from my source is that 400,000 or 800,000 has to be in the account at least 3 months prior to renewal and remain in the account for 3 months after renewal (supposedly, to prove that it's yours and that you really have control over those funds).

That was it. When asked about monthly deposits/withdrawals to show a specific amount, nothing was indicated that this is something they are planning to use. Of course, that could all change tomorrow and might be changing today as I type this.

I plan to make my deposit about four months before renewal, and I'll go to work making some special deposit arrangements after that.

In the meantime, I plan to have an ongoing routine follow-up with Udon Immigration and my contact in BKK about every 30 days until I renew; and I would advise everyone to do the same until Immigration puts something in writing. But we know that even if something is in writing, the IO has final word on anything anyway. Anything in writing would help though. For those who have been through it, keep your options open. Be ready to adjust.

Good luck to all.

If funds need to be in account 3 months prior and three months after, makes it difficult to maintain a good standard of living if this is a good portion of one's pension. I hope in the future they will except monthly deposits of income rather than a lump sum being the only option.

My sentiments exactly!! Three embassies have already stated that they cannot certify income. Sounds to me like the only alternative is put the required funds in a Thai bank unless TI changes their requirements. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.

tamada wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 8:04 am

Deposit the lump sum, satisfy Thai Immigration's current requirements,

I have always had the needed amount, until SWMBO decided to buy a car and will be bringing my account back to the need amount well before the deadline for seasoning.

The income method was never an option for me due to the enormous magnitude of the OAP.

semperfiguy wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 9:28 am

parrot wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 8:59 am

I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.

Parrot, I think it's always been a foregone conclusion that our government is not keen on its citizens living abroad and spending their US based income and other government payouts outside the US economy. No doubt they throw us in the same boat with the millions of illegal aliens that earn in the US and send their money back to their families outside our country. If they really cared about us they would find a way to allow us to use our Medicare entitlements abroad. Well-known and respected groups have been lobbying in Washington DC for years to get this reversed and our government has done nothing to help us.

They use to allow my health insurance to be used abroad however, the magnitude of fraud was overwhelming which forced the insurance company to end claims abroad. However, Bangkok Hospital seems to have the ability to get expats reimbursed for all or partial claims in the US.

Much as I've moaned at the UK Embassy to be more helpful, I feel we have to accept proving expats income absolutely would be a time consuming exercise. As suggested, the fact that several Embassies have decided to give up on the income letter, it's not just a question of pressure of work at an individual Embassy. Then, of course, there's Thai pressure and the legal factor. I must say I'm a bit surprised at comments about the US Embassy, as I thought the service with e.g. Outreach as an example,particularly in 'falling over' to assist its' ex-serviceman (and that's NOT a criticism). was far more helpful than anything offered by the UK.
(With over 30 years administrative, local government service equating to Civil Service, I've offered my services to the British Embassy in retaining the income letter and my role would be to confirm, as it were, guaranteed income statements. Working from home (maybe Bangkok), UK salary, which would be more than covered by fees. I'm awaiting a reply. [-o< )

Well, it was nice while it lasted...same as ACH money transfer via Bangkok bank in NYC.

If only you guys lived in Nong Khai. We went through all this five years ago. Many laughed and said we were making it up, or that the reason they were grilling us is because we didn't wear a tuxedo to the extension renewal with a gift box of Dom Pérignon Rose Gold. We saved our satangs and have been proving the required deposits for many years now. Come on Udon expats, get your ---- together, YOU CAN DO IT!

Don Quixote's Impossible Dream

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star
This is my quest, to follow that star
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far
To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march
Into hell for a heavenly cause

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY

semperfiguy wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 9:28 am

parrot wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 8:59 am

I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.

Parrot, I think it's always been a foregone conclusion that our government is not keen on its citizens living abroad and spending their US based income and other government payouts outside the US economy. No doubt they throw us in the same boat with the millions of illegal aliens that earn in the US and send their money back to their families outside our country. If they really cared about us they would find a way to allow us to use our Medicare entitlements abroad. Well-known and respected groups have been lobbying in Washington DC for years to get this reversed and our government has done nothing to help us.

Why would the US government want to help its citizens live overseas.....outside the US economy? I count my blessings that I'm able to have my Social Security deposited into a Thai bank (if I choose), to be able to use TRICARE overseas - even after 65, if you're enrolled in medicare, to be able to easily move money between my US based accounts and my Thai ones, to be able to step back on US soil after being here for xxxx years and have instant access to my Medicare benefits, to get COLA increases on my Social Security and military pension, to be able to renew my US drivers license online while overseas, and to have the luxury of ACS visits to Udon for the past 22 years since the consulate in Udon closed. Oops, forgot......for the past 20 years, we've been able to obtain our income letter without the hassle of proving our income (yes, yes, I know, we're responsible for the misery set upon everyone today). Oops, forgot, there's a VFW in town for US veterans that help out many tens of widows of veterans who have died.......and many expat veterans who are befuddled about the way social security or veterans benefits work.
Expats from all countries are not treated equally. Count your blessings.

parrot wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 3:08 pm

semperfiguy wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 9:28 am

parrot wrote: ↑

November 10, 2018, 8:59 am

I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.

Parrot, I think it's always been a foregone conclusion that our government is not keen on its citizens living abroad and spending their US based income and other government payouts outside the US economy. No doubt they throw us in the same boat with the millions of illegal aliens that earn in the US and send their money back to their families outside our country. If they really cared about us they would find a way to allow us to use our Medicare entitlements abroad. Well-known and respected groups have been lobbying in Washington DC for years to get this reversed and our government has done nothing to help us.

Why would the US government want to help its citizens live overseas.....outside the US economy? I count my blessings that I'm able to have my Social Security deposited into a Thai bank (if I choose), to be able to use TRICARE overseas - even after 65, if you're enrolled in medicare, to be able to easily move money between my US based accounts and my Thai ones, to be able to step back on US soil after being here for xxxx years and have instant access to my Medicare benefits, to get COLA increases on my Social Security and military pension, to be able to renew my US drivers license online while overseas, and to have the luxury of ACS visits to Udon for the past 22 years since the consulate in Udon closed. Oops, forgot......for the past 20 years, we've been able to obtain our income letter without the hassle of proving our income (yes, yes, I know, we're responsible for the misery set upon everyone today). Oops, forgot, there's a VFW in town for US veterans that help out many tens of widows of veterans who have died.......and many expat veterans who are befuddled about the way social security or veterans benefits work.
Expats from all countries are not treated equally. Count your blessings.

You forgot Nexflix and Lazada!

I have had a reply from the British Embassy to my 'moan' letter. I was hoping it might nail a few things down, but it really only tells us what we know already. The vagueness, at present, remains and we have to rely on Immigration for accurate, clear information. Oh hell.

Dear Mr Davis
Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay in replying.
I am happy to hear that you have found our service useful in the past.
The British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues an income/pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application or extension of stay. The Thai authorities confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which we are unable to do. We would refer such requests to the issuing authority. Therefore, the current letter issued by us does not fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.
In order to apply for a marriage or retirement visa or apply for an extension, British Nationals will now be required to have the minimum funds required for their visa in a Thai bank account. This is not a change in the requirement on the Immigration side; the lump sums and monthly amounts remain the same. The difference from January 2019 is that British Nationals will now have to prove their income by having these minimum funds in a Thai bank account where they can be verified by Thai Immigration. In fact, Immigration’s own website makes no mention of a letter from an embassy being used as proof of income.
As the requirements for a Thai visa are dealt with by the Thai Immigration department we are unable to comment on what income they will accept. However, Immigration’s own website states the minimum funds required for each visa type. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/s ... ension_all services 22 and 18
For a retirement visa

• Must be at least 50 years old

• Must have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the application for a visa or

• A monthly income of at least 65,000 THB

• Further info: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Requirements for a marriage visa are:

• Must be legally married to a Thai national

• Must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year

• Further info: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18
It is therefore advisable to speak to Thai Immigration directly. You can contact the Immigration Call Centre on 1178 and they will be able to answer all Thai immigration questions.
The Ministry Of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and Thai Immigration in Bangkok are aware of the changes being made by the British Embassy. It is the responsibility of the MFA to broadcast changes to their own Immigration offices around the country to ensure all changes to rules and regulations are being followed.
Thai Law states that the income/pension letter supplied by Embassies in Thailand is valid for 6 months. However, it is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer whether they will grant you your visa/extension.

Kind Regards
Stacey
Pro Consul
British Embassy Bangkok

What is a little funny to me is the requirement to have funds in a Thai bank account, but based on another thread it is very difficult to open a Thai bank account so for new applicants trying to get permission to stay based on retirement or marriage. What's also kind of weird is they require more for one individual vs 2 or more if married.