The regulation is from 22 October 2010 and can be found here:
http://www.thailawonline.com/images/doc ... 20Thai.pdf

Some Living Wills can be very simple. I've seen others of 20 pages. I wouldn't advise in Thailand to have a document too complex. Bangkok Hospital have their form. The one we provide free on Internet is Thai and English, respect the regulation of 2010 and was done by attorneys with experience in this matter. Remember that before the health act of 2007, there was nothing.

We had a client refusing treatment somewhere 2 months ago. He was lucid and knew what he was doing. He made a Last Will and a living Will. He refused all treatments and the hospital didn't do anything. He died about 3 weeks later.

There are conditions to respect in the regulation. Like the witnesses should not benefit of the death of the person making a last Will. They must also write their relation, who is the writer of the document and others.

Because of that regulation, we also modify our LAST WILL to reflect some of these conditions in case the law changes in the civil code. We just wanted to uniformise what the government asked.

Hope this help.

Thanks issanlawyers. I just downloaded your forms.
One question, I was told I didn't need to have the "Living Will" notarized? Seems odd...

No. In Thailand, notaries have a strange status. They are lawyers and I think there is no law about them. Notaries study 4 days in Bangkok to get their license.

The health act and regulation do not mention it has to be notarised. Same as a Last Will with 2 witnesses. But there are more conditions about the witnesses, like giving their address, etc.

We translated the regulation in English and I think it's the only one available: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/doc ... awyers.pdf

I was working on living Will today and saw that topic. But I am not often on Udon Map.

Bangkok Hospital information can be found here:
http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/ex ... 20form.pdf

I have used Issan Lawyers for my will and very professional.

jingjai wrote:One question, I was told I didn't need to have the "Living Will" notarized? Seems odd...

"Notary" can mean different things in different places. In most states in the U.S., notarization means that the notary has positively identified the person signing the document, usually by photo ID. The purpose of notarization is to ensure that the person signing the document is that actual person and not an imposter. But I believe that there are a few states where it is slightly different. It may be different in different countries, too.

In some places, the seal makes it official; but that can vary. In some U.S. states, for example, it is the signature of the Notary Public which makes it official. The seal is just for show, and has no legal significance.

Actually the seal is not just for show, as it proves, unless someone has simply had a seal press made, that it is the original. As copies can easily be edited or changed on any computer. If seal is simply a inked stamp, then yes, fairly useless.

Good luck trying to copy a pressed seal......

Notaries here are simply 2 signatures on a form, verifying the signature of form, did sign and agree to the 'subject' of the form. Ripe for fraud and corruption, and was surprised how silly it all was.

12345 wrote:Actually the seal is not just for show, as it proves, unless someone has simply had a seal press made, that it is the original. As copies can easily be edited or changed on any computer. If seal is simply a inked stamp, then yes, fairly useless.

In one jurisdiction in which my firm practices, the seal can be a simple rubber stamp with ink.

Back in the US I was an authorized Notary Public in Texas and in Tennessee. In both cases I had to make an official application to the State, post a bond fee and the press seal was delivered to me by the State authorities.

It may be worthy of note that no Federal or State document submitted for official business in the US will recognize a notarization from anyone in Thailand other than the US Embassy.

semperfiguy wrote:Back in the US I was an authorized Notary Public in Texas and in Tennessee. In both cases I had to make an official application to the State, post a bond fee and the press seal was delivered to me by the State authorities.

That is a much more sensible way to do it. In Massachusetts, where seals aren't required at all and have no legal significance, private companies sell the seals and anyone can buy one. On the other hand, if you're a lawyer but not a notary and "notarize" a document, you will be disbarred, as some poor, unfortunate fellow found out a few years ago. He had a seal and everything!

semperfiguy wrote:It may be worthy of note that no Federal or State document submitted for official business in the US will recognize a notarization from anyone in Thailand other than the US Embassy.

That hasn't been true in my case.

My state pension required a notarized seal from Thailand on all state document paperwork signed by my spouse when I was still working in the US. There was no requirement to have any of the documents notarized by the US Embassy. An attorney here in Udon notarized and stamped everything. No hitches. No problems. Done.

That was almost a decade ago.

Lone Star wrote:

semperfiguy wrote:It may be worthy of note that no Federal or State document submitted for official business in the US will recognize a notarization from anyone in Thailand other than the US Embassy.

That hasn't been true in my case.

My state pension required a notarized seal from Thailand on all state document paperwork signed by my spouse when I was still working in the US. There was no requirement to have any of the documents notarized by the US Embassy. An attorney here in Udon notarized and stamped everything. No hitches. No problems. Done.

That was almost a decade ago.

And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.

semperfiguy wrote:And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.

Well, I just sent documents notarized by the same attorney regarding a succession in the State of Louisiana. All of those were accepted by the courts in the past eighteen months. I don't want to take your money or make you pay for any donuts.

Every state has their own way of doing things. What's true in one state is not necessarily true in another. It's that way in both civil and criminal proceedings along with guns laws, drivers licenses, et al. What is true in Texas or Tennessee, may not necessarily be true in other states.

Tragically the recent 2 expat fatalities seemed to have had delays in the release of the deceased.

Seems to me that the hospitals are insisting on embassy clearance and not other documents such as a.Living Will.

wazza wrote:Tragically the recent 2 expat fatalities seemed to have had delays in the release of the deceased.

Seems to me that the hospitals are insisting on embassy clearance and not other documents such as a.Living Will.

There can be more than one Will, which is what creates the problems. Thai officials (and hospitals) want to cover themselves, and I don't blame them. I'm sure they've been burned enough in the past to have learned a lesson. Just ask immigration how many bogus "arrangements" they run across.

The Will is great for making sure who your beneficiaries are, but it pretty much has nothing to do with when remains are released.

Lone Star wrote:

semperfiguy wrote:And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.

Well, I just sent documents notarized by the same attorney regarding a succession in the State of Louisiana. All of those were accepted by the courts in the past eighteen months. I don't want to take your money or make you pay for any donuts.

Every state has their own way of doing things. What's true in one state is not necessarily true in another. It's that way in both civil and criminal proceedings along with guns laws, drivers licenses, et al. What is true in Texas or Tennessee, may not necessarily be true in other states.

Also U.S. State Department accepted their notarized form from step-son in Thailand authorizing daughter-in-law to get my granddaughter a U.S. passport. Was not seen or went through Embassy.

Lastly, maybe 5 years, we never had problems in USA with notarized documents from Thai notaries, who are also lawyers in Thailand. Never means it never been refused ANYWHERE for ANY REASON.

Before that, yes. Many problems and only in USA.

As an added comment, I have never had a problem with a notorized document from Thailand here in the U.S. for adoption or U.S. immigration over the past 13 years.

Stantheman wrote: ↑

November 29, 2017, 7:21 pm

As an added comment, I have never had a problem with a notorized document from Thailand here in the U.S. for adoption or U.S. immigration over the past 13 years.

If notarized at embassy, 100% fine. But like I say, I remember in years 2007-2011, for our law firm, dealing with often American clients, we had to refuse Americans for notarial services. We were referring to embassy. Later clients insisted, we asked them to double, they said yes...and now, since about 2012, no problem. Maybe 2011.
I don't even understand why. Law in Thailand about it, or in USA, I think didn't changed.

Hi I have read through all the post concerning this topic and I have come to the same conclusion as most people. I am skeptical about Bangkok Hospital Udon honoring a "living Will". I went to BH udon and spoke to the lady who deals with international affairs (same lady I spoke to about 2 years ago); asked her about the hospital accepting a living will, Her initial response was no. Then I showed the living will form used by Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. She said they have had only one person bring a living will with them upon an admittance but did not know the outcome.

She said she would have to call the hospital management to see what their current policy is however, she did state that the hospital is concerned about legal repercussions. She wants me to return, show her a detailed filled out living will form and then she will call management to obtain a decision. I spelled out what I want the will to contain, things such as a DNR order placed in my chart for all staff to see and others such as no ventilator, pain medical to include medical marijuana ( I know good luck with that), and morphine and be sent home to die. I think I scared her off because she said "bring me a complete form and I will get you a decision.

I think the best plan for me is either Wattana hospital, or if able, go to Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. I do not want to go to AEK because of the rumors cash upfront and being tied to a bed until the bill is settled.

It’s the law. Clause 12 of the Health act.
If doctors or hospital do not respect it, they are liable.
We use them in 2 cases in Nakhon Ratchasima without any problem.

I am always sceptical to read that someone asked, verified, is not sure, bla-bla-bla. If you are not sure, that’s not information.

The law is the law.
In Thailand, some places do apply the law differently from a place to another. But that is so strong, clear and so dangerous to refuse to honor a living Will that I believe the people talking about that do not know what they talk about.

I dealt with Bangkok Hospital in Korat and also Maharat.