Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

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runrunshaw
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 7, 2019, 2:34 pm

vincemunday wrote:
February 7, 2019, 10:06 am
It's a nightmare, I had to make sure I was on site every day while building the apartments, but even then I'd come back from lunch and I'd find them preparing beams the wrong size and I'd have to get them to unwire the frames and redo them, the minute your back is turned they'll try to cut corners. A real favourite is watering down the ready mix concrete so they can float it easier, I'd order road grade concrete and I'd see them reaching for the hose, that caused many rows, they don't like to lay the concrete in the mix that's delivered. My other favourite is that they don't stagger the joints on brick walls, I actually knocked down a couple of finished walls and made them do them again, that really went down well, stupid Farang! Ah so you're a way in already, the idea is keep the builders needing money, if you pay them too much too quickly they'll either sod off and leave the job completely or you'll lose them for a few days on Lao Kao frenzy or as they call it when they come back "work on farm". Fortunately I'd used drawings a fair bit when I owned the joinery and I'd spent a bit of time on site so I wasn't a complete newbie but the methods they use here are really different to back home anyway, even when they're not cutting corners but it was enough that I could make sure things were done right...ish.

Good luck with what you have left, I look forward to more posts.
Thanks, Vince, I'll try to post more soon. And I will need suggestions from you and others on a few outstanding issues.

BTW, the "Lao Kao Frenzy" -- while working, apparently- cost me dearly.


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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by glalt » February 7, 2019, 3:11 pm

runrunshaw wrote:
February 7, 2019, 2:26 pm
glalt wrote:
February 7, 2019, 1:02 pm
A few years ago I had a small overnight house built next to a farm pond. I hesitate to call t a house, it is more of just a bedroom with an under roof front porch and cooking area on the end. There is an outhouse out back. The other small cement box in the back houses a 5,000 watt generator that runs a submersible well pump used for irrigation. The property is off the electric grid. The generator is too noisy to use in the little house plus it uses a lot of gasoline. I added two 280 watt solar panels and a battery bank. It runs lights, a fan, TV and satellite dish for the TV. It makes a nice place to stay for the wife to tend her many fruit trees and feed the fish. The total build cost was 103,000 baht.

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If that structure was located anywhere in Southern California it would be worth 3 million baht, and I'm not exaggerating.

Thanks for sharing. My father-law would love a place like that.
It was designed so that the cooking area on the end could easily be completely walled in making another room. We haven't needed the extra room so nothing has been done.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 7, 2019, 9:06 pm

Allow me to make a date correction and backtrack just a bit. We had the TW's land cleared in October. I left for a long trip to China and then the United States. Then, on Nov. 2nd 2018, the concrete slab pour for my two storage containers took place.
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The two containers I'd bought were delivered three days later and placed perfectly.
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So in mid-November, Jit and his rag-tag crew of two set out to plant the cements poles and build the roof. (photos posted previously). They were getting drunk on Lao Kao while working, although I didn't find that out until later.

But when I got back to Udon near the end of November, the sh*t hit the fan.
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by vincemunday » February 8, 2019, 7:26 am

It's funny that the Thai government don't tax Lao Kao very much, most villages comprise mainly of old women, very few men seem to make old age and I'm pretty sure Lao Kao has a lot to do with that. Also it seems to be quite addictive, you rarely see anyone who can drink it sensibly, they seem to throw it down their neck and they go from sober to drunk in the blink of an eye because they are just topping up from what they drank earlier. To be honest, I banned it from site completely, some of the builders rattled a bit towards the end of the day and I'm sure I wasn't popular because of it but if you want poles concreted in properly and straight walls...

Keep on their case!
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 9, 2019, 8:03 pm

Okay, I hope I can pick up the chronological events of the build w/o being too confusing. So In November 2018, I've funded the wife to move forward while I'm out of the country. The slab for my containers gets poured and my storage containers delivered. The wife can't wait for her uncles to become available or she'll miss the good day the monks have selected to plant those important first two posts. So she hires Jit for 15,600 baht--paid in steps-- to plant the posts, do the roof, and pour the slab foundation.

When I returned to Udon in late November, I saw that the roof ironwork was complete and the roof panels were ready to go on... but the posts didn't look aligned properly. Beyond that, there were 12 posts, spaced 4 meters apart. Now I'm not a rocket scientist, but a 12 X 8 meter house should equal 96 square meters. Right?

The problem was, we weren't supposed to build a 96 SQM house, but a 60 SQM house. Just like the house in the photos which I had agreed to build, and which are in the OP. 10 M X 6M. Just like my LINE messages to the TW reconfirming the dimensions. 10 X 6!

I didn't say anything until we got home, and then we had one of those WTF? sessions where I do all of the yelling. You know, the ones Thais love so much.

My wife looked genuinely surprised. A part of me suspected either she, her sister, or mother, had angled for a bigger house in my absence. I kept pushing until she said that the man from the local government office--the one we had to bribe with 1000 baht so he would come out and sign off on our beginning the build--that he had redrawn the layout of the house and had decided on the size himself.

Perhaps that was true. No way for me to really know. What I did know was that the budget was now going to skyrocket.

In the middle of this pleasant conversation, the phone rang. It was her uncle Mak saying that Jit had completely screwed-up the layout of the posts, and that if we continue as is, the house will be sh*t. Jit had told Mak to piss off, that he only takes orders from "the owner."

So the next morning we went out to the land and had a Come-to-Jesus talk with Jit. When Mak showed him that one post was off by 60 cm, Jit admitted he had "eyeballed" some of the work. Since the uncles were still not available to take over the project, we reluctantly agreed to allow Jit to fix what he had messed up.

I was told that only a couple of posts had to be moved. And that only some of the ironwork had to come down. But in the days that followed--I had to go to Bangkok, and was busy at home on a project--it became clear that someone had some "splainin'" to do.

Using a trusty old angle grinder and working slowly--ALL OF THE IRON WORK CAME DOWN. Sorry, I don't have photos of the dismantling.

Cr*p, when I finally got back to the job site, I couldn't believe it! And I find out the wife has now paid him 10,000 baht, and that all of the posts have to be moved, except those first two, which can't touched. That's when I spotted a bunch of empty Lao Kao bottles. I decided to fire him then and there. But sometimes things have to handled delicately.

My wife's uncles had finally become available, but Jit and his crew are thirty-ish bad boys. They wanted the rest of their money, but I didn't want to pay. Why should I? They weren't completing the job and had ******-up royally.

It was going to create bad blood in the village between families. Jit's dad, while drunk, physically accosted Mak (Mak is a village government pooh-yai) and accused him of meddling to get his son fired. Mak took the dad out to the job site and showed him the misaligned posts. Even though he was drunk, Jit's dad said something to the effect of "My son did this?! I wouldn't live in a house this badly laid out!" The man apologized later, but Jit demanded his money.

I knew he would cause trouble, so I told the wife to pay him, just to get him to go away. She gave him 5000 more, but held back 600 baht. Maybe it was symbolic on her part, I don't know. He and his crew removed their tools from our land. A few days later, my father-in-lay said some of his tools were missing. I did a roof panel count and two roof panels were also missing, So the ***** stole about a thousand baht worth of stuff, to get his 600 baht payment.

I wasn't feeling too good about things. I was down 15,000 and had nothing but 12 misaligned cement poles in place.
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by Doodoo » February 9, 2019, 8:21 pm

Have PMed you
Thanks

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by glalt » February 10, 2019, 10:44 am

My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.
shed_102655.jpg

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by deankham » February 10, 2019, 11:23 am

^ looks really useful I'd have been pleased with that. Better to have too much shade than too little in my humble opinion.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by thaiguzzi » February 10, 2019, 12:42 pm

glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg
Jesus wept.
"Huge project"....
A carport for a tractor and a pick up truck..........

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by thaiguzzi » February 10, 2019, 12:43 pm

deankham wrote:
February 10, 2019, 11:23 am
^ looks really useful I'd have been pleased with that. Better to have too much shade than too little in my humble opinion.
Concur.
Difficult to please some people.
Lotta glass half empty types round here.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by glalt » February 10, 2019, 1:01 pm

thaiguzzi wrote:
February 10, 2019, 12:42 pm
glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg
Jesus wept.
"Huge project"....
A carport for a tractor and a pick up truck..........
I didn't know that she would have a hundred bags of rice stored in there.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 10, 2019, 3:43 pm

glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg
Looks like they didn't skimp on the iron.
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by dunroaming » February 10, 2019, 3:50 pm

glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg
looks like u will need another one for the tractor but agreed iron looks good and properly spaced. Wish I could build same for 9000

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 10, 2019, 4:02 pm

dunroaming wrote:
February 10, 2019, 3:50 pm
glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg
looks like u will need another one for the tractor but agreed iron looks good and properly spaced. Wish I could build same for 9000
The 9K was his, contribution, wife paid the rest, I think.
#1.. wish my wife had that kind of money.
#2. That car/tractor/bags of rice park had to cost 35K minimum, don't you think?
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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by vincemunday » February 10, 2019, 4:41 pm

Never skimp on your carport, mine's only 8 x 4 and I wish I'd made it bigger, it will be a project for me when it cools down a bit.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by dunroaming » February 10, 2019, 6:08 pm

runrunshaw wrote:
February 10, 2019, 4:02 pm
dunroaming wrote:
February 10, 2019, 3:50 pm
glalt wrote:
February 10, 2019, 10:44 am
My wife wanted to have a roofed place to park the tractor. I agreed. I was at my condo in Jomtien. When I got back home, I found that I now have 100 square meters under roof. I told her that I wan't going to pay for that huge project. I paid 9,000 baht and she paid the rest.

shed_102655.jpg


looks like u will need another one for the tractor but agreed iron looks good and properly spaced. Wish I could build same for 9000
The 9K was his, contribution, wife paid the rest, I think.
#1.. wish my wife had that kind of money.
#2. That car/tractor/bags of rice park had to cost 35K minimum, don't you think?


Yes me too agreed my one was 80K without the cement base that's getting done this week 12 cube of cement etc

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 10, 2019, 8:25 pm

Okay, so after firing Jit, his brother, and the other derelict, my TW's uncles and their crew took over. These were mature, experienced men in their 40s and 50s who didn't drink on the job. Sometimes we had a few beers on site at the end of the day. Usually it was between four and seven guys. It was different every time I went to the site. Uncle Mak was running the show, and he was fairly meticulous--at least when he was around, that is.

I made a deal for 12K baht for them to move the cement posts into alignment, hang the roof, and pour the foundation. They got right to it, and actually had things such as real scaffolding, real ladders, and professional tools.
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I had been buying all of the materials since Day One, but now I felt more secure that these guys weren't out to rip me off.
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Things were rolling along. Mak predicted the house would be finished by the end of the year. I doubted that, but it sounded good to my wife.
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I also decided to keep it a 12-pole structure with a 1 M roof overhang creating 140 SQM of roof. But I wasn't going to keep 96M as interior. Since my plan had been to build a 60 SQM house, but I'd been given a 96 SQM layout, I decided to keep 64 SQM as interior, and the other 32 SQM would constitute a Thai kitchen and a patio.

That meant the sliding glass front door would have to be placed on the north side of the house, leading onto what would now be a covered patio. It was a radical change from the photos of the house I had committed to build, but I knew I'd have to tighten up spending however I could. What is it the US Marines say? Adjust, adapt, overcome.

I now took the project as a challenge; could I build a decent house at a price? I didn't know, but decided to spend more time on site and pay a lot closer attention to developments.
The best gadget is the human brain.

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by Barney » February 10, 2019, 8:39 pm

Excellent story so far, from your original thoughts of no family and overtime your change of heart. Many of us have or will go through this exact same thing.
Having the ability to continually change one’s mind is the key here in Thailand with many things.
Shown by your negotiating a wY out and changing the construction team, plus modifying the plans etc.
You have an original budget so that is a good yardstick to aim for, don’t stress if you wander past that figure. Just spend what you need to keep peace especially in you and the wife’s mind.
Good work so far and will be interesting to see the finished product and all the smiling faces.


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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by dunroaming » February 10, 2019, 8:54 pm

These are the stories that are good to share and I for one enjoy reading them. The longer you live here the more horror stories you get to share but sometimes the opposite. I think any of us that have built something have these stories The police are still looking for our first builder!! and we have some useful contacts too

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Re: Low Budget Village Build For In-Laws

Post by runrunshaw » February 11, 2019, 10:31 am

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I have to go back to China for awhile and won't take my laptop there, so I'll try to get further along in the story before I leave.

The construction learning curve has been steep. I read a lot of the building threads and took notes, and did Internet research, but there's nothing like practical experience. I must say there is satisfaction in building something. We might build again---this time a house for ourselves---or we might not.

We've certainly gotten to know our building supply shops. We've bought from Thai Watsadu, Home Hub, Do Home, Big Lots, four different small shops within ten minutes of the build, a roofing shop on the Nong Kai highway, and two other building material shops. Wish I hadn't sold my pick-up truck a couple of years back. Not all places deliver for free.

Oh, and there's a scrap metal shop on the road to Sakon Nakon which has some really interesting finds. We bought some slightly bent iron to use for gate poles, and also sections that now constitute the gate. Here are some pics of that scrap metal shop:
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The first time I went there, a farang and his TW were loading a used gate into a songteaw for the trip to their place in Nong Sam Rong. Wish I'd gotten there first---it was a nice gate.

Drive through a Thai village---no two gates are alike!
The best gadget is the human brain.

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