Marriage in Thailand

Thailand laws, tips and advice.
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kumphawapi
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Marriage in Thailand

Post by kumphawapi » March 11, 2012, 1:35 pm

You want evidence?
see http://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/pensi ... s_faqs.htm
A UK Teacher can marry after retirement, and his widow will get a pension.

Q. If I remarry, enter into a civil partnership or nominate a partner after I retire, will a pension be paid to my dependants after I die?

A. The table below sets out the benefits payable depending upon your individual circumstances.

Widows

If a member marries or remarries after leaving pensionable employment only service from 6.4.78 counts towards the pension.

Tafia
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Post by Tafia » March 11, 2012, 2:16 pm

harmonyudon wrote:Sorry Tafia, UK-Civil Service pension-scheme-system or not:
its hard to beleive that, if someone is single at retiremement age, the periodically amount of the actuarial annuity which is then based on a single life can later be changed into 2 lifes, also when for example you never contribute in the premiums for 2 lifes during your active working-life.
All I can tell you is of my own experience, whether you believe it or not is as they say 'up to you' but I did my checks before marrying and it was confirmed in writing by my pension provider.
I should add that my CC Pension was a Non Contributory and part of my terms and conditions.
Sorry I can't be of any further help on the matter.

bazkashmir
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Post by bazkashmir » March 11, 2012, 3:00 pm

harmonyudon wrote:
bazkashmir wrote:First of all i would like to say hello to everyone on the forum.
This is my first post and would be grateful if someone could advise me.
I am from England and thinking of marrying my long term girlfriend who is Thai.
After marriage we will live in Thailand.
The question i would like to ask is if i die will my Thai wife get a widows pension from England, even if she does not come to live in England and if the answer is yes what would i have to do to make sure she does.


Regards
bazkashmir
My point is/was no matter what kind of pension, usually married after retirement the widow is not granted.
From above post perhaps others can conclude if bazkashmir is already retired or not, I can not.
Also I can not conclude if he build-up a pension via his work.
Yes i have build up a pension via my work i was working for 30 years with same company and took early retirement due to health reasons,i have not yet reached state pension age.

bazkashmir
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Post by bazkashmir » March 11, 2012, 3:22 pm

My inquiry was about the government pension. Thank you to everybody for your replies.

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 23, 2012, 11:58 pm

@Tafia & kumphawapi
I took the freedom to contact the administrator of the UK- Civil Service Pensions.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Good morning George

The exact wording of the scheme rules defining an eligible widow is as below:

4.4 (i) In the case of a civil servant who retires before 6 April 1978, an eligible widow is a woman to whom he was married at the time of his death, and who was not living with a man as his wife; if he dies while no longer a civil servant, she must also have been married to him at some time while he was a civil servant.
(ii) In the case of a civil servant who retires or is due to retire on or after 6 April 1978, an eligible widow is a woman to whom he was married at the time of his death, whether or not the marriage took place while he was a civil servant.

Consequently, providing he is legally married at the time of his death, a widow's pension would be payable. as mentioned however, this is based only on service after 6.4.1978, so if for example, he left Civil Service employment on 30.4.1978, less than one month's service, the widow's pension would be very small, possibly less than one pound each month.

The pension is payable for as long as the widow remains unmarried & not living with another man as 'commonlaw' man & wife.

If you have any further queries, please contact us again.

Regards


Glynn Oliver
Senior Pension Administrator
Awards Team
Capita Civil Service Pensions
PO Box 215
Darlington
DL3 9GT

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BobHelm
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Post by BobHelm » March 24, 2012, 8:50 am

So Tafia was absolutely correct then George. (Rather as I expected, knowing him.. :D )

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 10:36 am

Advice to all single or devorced civil servants retieree's on their death bead would be:

Legally marry a (young) woman :D :D

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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 11:47 am

harmonyudon wrote:Advice to all single or devorced civil servants retieree's on their death bead would be:

Legally marry a (young) woman :D :D
Now there may be a rule about that, as it doesn't affect me I've never looked into it but anyone who it may affect should check first.

By the way the widows pension increases in value by way of index linking exactly the same as my pension does.
The April rise is calculated by the previous Sept CPI as is the CC & State Pension. This year it is 5.2%
God Bless the Civil Service. \:D/ :-" \:D/

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 12:39 pm

@Tafia,
I'ts still for me hard to beleive but above is the answer of this mail:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Glynn,
Thanks for your reply. Your pension scheme is amazing.
If a member marries or re-marries after retirement, a reduced widow's pension would still be payable,
based only on service after 6 April 1978.
One more question please:
Also when he legally marry on his death bead in for example Thailand with a young thai bride??
Is the reduced widow's pension a life-time pension??


George

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BobHelm
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Post by BobHelm » March 24, 2012, 1:01 pm

The important thing that the pension administrator does not mention, that Tafia hints at, is how much the widows pension would be.
If married before the pension was taken then it normally is 50% of the employees pension. However most schemes usually have 'age related' clause even then. So if, for example you are 60 & marry a 25 year old then she will never be in the position of getting anything like a 50% pension even if you are still working at the time.
Marriage when in receipt of a pension almost universally applies an age versus percentage calculation.
Hence the 25 year old widow may well get a lifetime pension but the amount received could be so minuscule as to be meaningless.

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 1:17 pm

@bobhelm,

Did not ask,but presume that after a full service civil-servant,for example 30-40years employement,
it does not matter WHEN you married after retirement. The height of the reduced widow-pension should be the same.

The retieree can die directly after retirement or at age of 100+,its the risk of the pensionfund. Date of marriage
is then not relevant..........if this is the case.......its still amazing :D :D :D

A widow-pension is like a (life)insurance.

If you for example your house is insured against fire/burning,does it
matter when the house is insured?? The height of the damage should
be the same after 1 day or 30years insurance.

Tafia
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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 3:21 pm

BobHelm wrote:The important thing that the pension administrator does not mention, that Tafia hints at, is how much the widows pension would be.
If married before the pension was taken then it normally is 50% of the employees pension. However most schemes usually have 'age related' clause even then. So if, for example you are 60 & marry a 25 year old then she will never be in the position of getting anything like a 50% pension even if you are still working at the time.
Marriage when in receipt of a pension almost universally applies an age versus percentage calculation.
Hence the 25 year old widow may well get a lifetime pension but the amount received could be so minuscule as to be meaningless.
I can only relate to my own circumstance as each case would be different.
I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010. If I had died within 2yrs of retirement my widow would have got a lump sum of 5 times my pension as that time has now passed no lump sum is payable other than the 3mths full pension.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% per month thereafter. That current value of my then widows monthly pension is around 34,400 THB per month. The index linking rise for April is 5.2% , the pension will rise to around 36,000 THB per month so you can see it keeps pace with UK inflation.
Im sorry I cannot comment generally, as I said each case is different and each company has its own policy, rules and regulations.
I do believe as Bob says there is a keep safe clause to stop us marrying teenagers on our death bed just to enable us to screw the pension provider for ever more.
I should add that should my widow re-marry she will lose the right to the pension.

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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 3:36 pm

Tafia wrote:I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% there after.
=D> =D>

How old was your wife when you married her,you were 57-58??
Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.

A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.

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Post by BobHelm » March 24, 2012, 3:58 pm

harmonyudon wrote:Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.
A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.
You are confusing the laws of the country with the rules of a pension fund.
The pension fund is quite within its' rights to take into account the expectant period for which it will be likely to pay out a benefit to any particular party. Indeed it would be mighty derelict in its duty to other members of the fund if it did not.
Life is indeed a lottery however all pension funds & insurance companies employ actuaries just in order to calculate the expectant liabilities of their funds.
Statistically it is hugely more likely that a 25 year old will live longer than a 65 year old.

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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 4:35 pm

harmonyudon wrote:
Tafia wrote:I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% there after.
=D> =D>
How old was your wife when you married her,you were 57-58??
Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.

A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.
I will be 59 next month and my wife turned 44 in Feb.
You are confusing the laws of the country with the rules of a pension fund.
The pension fund is quite within its' rights to take into account the expectant period for which it will be likely to pay out a benefit to any particular party. Indeed it would be mighty derelict in its duty to other members of the fund if it did not.
Bobs right, the rules of the pension fund is paramount.
I have a mate whose pension fund paid out less to women on the basis they lived longer. That has now been overturned by the EU but instead of bringing the women up to the level of the mens payout they split the difference so the men lose out.
for example: men got 100 quid a week women got 50 quid on the basis they lived longer after the ruling instead of the women also getting 100 quid a week they just paid everyone 75 quid a week.

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