Frankie 1: ... Adolescent girls and logic go together like fire and water. Any logical advise will be a waste of time.

Let her do her thing. She is young and has to find out things for herself...


BKKSTAN: ... as parents,many of us patronize the adolescent emotionally trials and growing trials by economicly supporting this myriad of constant changes because it is easier that the job of parenting. Resonsibility can not be avoided in real life,don't let them avoid it during these times.


trubrit: ... logic. I honestly don't think any teenager. not just Thai, knows the meaning of this word. I think the last sentence of Surfers recent posting" She has a boyfriend in...." is the only logic she can see at the moment. Let her do her own thing! I would call it, teaching her to stand on her own feet.Admirable sentiments with which I totally agree, but what if that includes getting pregnant? Can happen...


Khun Paul: It is the Thai pysche that seems to lack logic as a major thought process, if you ask a Thai p[erson to do a job around ypur househe /she will do just that , not seemingly noticing that maybe what they are doing is harming something else.

Something us longtimers know and deal with, but even when it comes to emotional situations, logic is not a thought process that is used, hence the lack of thought in speaking or even actions, like 'If I have his baby he won't leave me' or ' I borrow money he pay ' or other scenarios that maker us wonder if they actually have a brain at all.

One could almost equate many Thais as reluctant teenagers seeking to find their way in life and not quite knowing how to proceed...


laphanphon: rational thinking... not with hormones involved. obviously her main motivation to return to thailand... i personally would say, local [USA] university or none. tough love... but she'll get a much better education there, as opposed to basically unsupervised, whether legal adult or not, lifestyle of mai pen rai here. i haven't met too many young gals, that aren' raising a child, by themselves, whether here or there. at least there, you'll have a chance to help and guide her, especially after boyfriend finds another...


jimboLV: The bottom line is you've given them wings, now you've got to let them fly on their own, but with some guidance and negotiation. But don't try to dictate. Forget about YOUR idea of what's the best school or what's best for her career. Just concentrate on what she wants to do and facilitate that in the best way possible without compromising her future. And remember that the boyfriend factor overrides any logic, but it too shall pass.

Adolescent girls and logic go together like fire and water" = so true!

One of the differences between American kids and Thai kids has to do with their both being spoiled, but in different ways. American kids are spoiled by their parents with material things. Thai kids are spoiled with 100% indulgence coupled with few rules (until it is too late and the parents realize they can't reign them in). Mai pen rai.

"One could almost equate many Thais as reluctant teenagers..." Another truism.

"hormones..." Ah, yes!

I don't know how much flying I can let her do. She's a smart girl, but as a kid (raised by the grandparents), she was brought up more as a "princess" than as a child who could help shoulder some of the daily chores. She was not encouraged to help around the house or even out in the farm. We have been teaching her how to cook, but -- really -- I can't see her ready to be on her own in 2010. I suppose she will be able to do it, but I'm having a hard time imagining how she could do it and not get married (the easy cop-out) or pregnant or both.

Keep her here and the Thai boyfriend goes away, eventually. True, but then there's the next one...

I did a year of my university at Thammasat in Bangkok. Considered by most to be the top school in Thailand alongside Chulalongkorn. The economics and business programmes can be taught in English or Thai. Pretty well respected programme. The courses should transfer abroad to most schools. There are probably over 100 foreign students there now I bet.

I think my tuition was around $2000 a year or so. very affordable.

"Thammasat in Bangkok. Considered by most to be the top school in Thailand alongside Chulalongkorn"


And for that reason, someone who's not really into studying/working in school isn't going to get in to Thammasat or Chula!

it wasn't an overly difficult program compared to western standards. Coming from a western country will make entrance easier I am sure.

it was certainly fun though. I remember one of my professors was the host of "the weakest link" gameshow in thailand. Another teacher cancelled class one day and suggested a make up class. The make up class consisted of a make-up artist telling us beauty secrets. I took a drama course which was learning to dance. Fun and games aside it was a very educational year and I learnt loads more than in the west.

just throwing the idea out there.

I really appreciate all of you who took the time to write in about this and want to give you an update on where things are at. A lot of your advice and observations I took to heart and have tried to utilize in a plan that is not optimal, but I think will work.

Basically, we have an Isaan teenager who has been in the USA for four years, doesn't like it, and wants to go back to
Thailand for college despite the fact she would have an educational advantage remaining in the US.

My wife and I were thinking first KKU, then the RU at Udon Thani. Now we are moving forward with the RU at Kanchanaburi. The advantage there is that my wife' s brother's daughter has graduated from that campus, knows the in's and out's, so to speak; there will be family around; and my daughter will be at greater distance not only from her existing boyfriend, but also her Thai family who is EXTREMELY mad at her for giving up the USA opportunity.

OK, so I can see this plan working, but I know that it won't be long before our daughter has a new boyfriend. She's just that kind. It's scary. She's gotta have a boyfriend. And, it's not like she's ugly or something. The only way we can keep things spinning out of control on that end is to tie her schooling into an agreement that she not only pulls good grades, but will not "marry" until she graduates.

Good Luck!!!I think acceptance will have a big part in your future

That and bills!

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Just wanted to thank everyone for their input on this and give you the latest.

After seriously considering the Udon Rajabhat, it appeared that we (her family, mother and me) would have a problem with her boyfriend being within striking distance (Nong Bua). So, we are now definitely on Plan C.

Plan C involves the Kanchanaburi Rajabhat. The plus (+) there is that we have family in Tamphaphoom and one of my daughter's cousins recently graduated from there and another one will also be attending there this coming school year. The negative (-) is that this Rajabhat apparently is the lowest in the system...

... and they have boys attending there, too!

I feel for you, legendarysurfer!

I have a vaguely similar issue at play here in Canada with my wife's oldest son, who came here -- along with his younger brother -- in September, 2008.

He finished his Grade IX without any conflicts that I know of. And then the boys went back to their Nong Soong village with their mother this past Summer for a visit.

His life here outside of school consists pretty much of sitting on his butt for hours and hours at the computer, playing games, watching videos, and keeping in touch with people he knew via some social networking.

Granted, Jack (his mother) and I should have done something more to get him "out there" doing things, but we've only one car, and she uses it for work. I commute via a combination of walking and our rapid transit known as SkyTrain.

Jack works about five evenings a week from 5:00 p.m., so she's not home. One of these evenings is a Saturday, pretty much canceling out weekend activities. Besides, neither she nor her sons go to bed early, so no one tends to be up on Sunday morning before 11:00 a.m. except me. Thus, Sundays tend to be an activity write-off.

Mondays through Fridays, I get up at 3:30 a.m. for my damned commute to and 6:00 a.m. start at work. By the time I'm home at the end of my day, I'm spent. I have no creative energy or time to do much. Heck, if I'm still up at 9:00 p.m., it's a late evening for a work day! So I truly have very little free time.

Tho (the oldest boy) has no friends here outside of school, unlike the younger boy who will be 12 this month. The youngster has a number of friends who have come here to play with him. Tho has never connected with anybody outside of school.

Anyway, when Tho had gone back to his home village after a year away, I guess he became something of a celebrity with his local peers, who probably have never been abroad anywhere in their lives. He went from being a nondescript nobody here in Canada, to being quite the hit back home. The social immersion he experienced must have been in depth, and I wouldn't be surprised if it included some of the fairer sex, too -- he likely would have gotten some attention.

He had his 15th birthday a day or two before his return back here to Canada. Jack couldn't get a flight any earlier than September 10, the Thursday evening of the week that the new school term had begun over here. We figured the boys would miss the week, and commence school on Monday of the next week.

Oddly, despite getting back here mid-evening on their very long flight that Thursday, Tho was up Friday morning and fully intending to go to school. So Jack took him and got him registered for the new term.

Nothing seemed untoward.

Until Sunday evening. The kid had an emotional meltdown. He and his mother started arguing around the time I was facing my bedtime, and soon it was him bawling and choking out whatever it was he was yelling at her, and she in turn snapping back in her machine-gun style.

I went to bed and tuned out -- I had no idea at the time what was going on.

I managed to get to sleep, but was awakened when Jack finally joined me. She was sobbing uncontrollably, totally at a loss on what she could do about Tho. He wanted to go back to Thailand right away to live, staying at the family home with his grandmother and forsaking Jack and his brother -- it was that important.

Apparently Jack told him that it was impossible to return so soon, especially in view of the cost their visit had already imposed upon us. So she said he'd have to wait four or five months.

I guess she was thinking spur-of-the-moment, and she probably should have said he'd have to wait until the next Summer.

He settled down, though, but this idea is now his whole orientation. He's basically serving his time, and fully thinking he's going to get to go back home where he has friends and some sort of status.

It's definitely not going to happen before he finishes his term at Grade X -- that's a definite that he's going to be hit with hard if he has actually counted out his months and thinks he's going back before school is done.

I wish I could be of more help, but I cannot while I'm working. I turned 60 last month, but my Pension isn't even worth $1,700 a month. I can't go and Retire, unless I can strike onto some other source of supplemental or replacement income.

Meantime, Jack is working at getting Tho's older university-student cousin over here on a Student Visa, attending English-language training in Vancouver. Tho really looks up to his cousin, Mark, who is very studious and athletic; and a good-looking, well-built young man. He's pretty much the pride of the family. But Mark wouldn't be able to stay here with us, I don't think -- unless he holed up with the two boys. So if he stays somewhere else, then it's fairly likely Tho and Mark wouldn't see all that much of one another.

Jack's fear about letting Tho go back to Thailand is that he will lose any kind of discipline and essentially become a drop-out and a loser. Perhaps I'm using terms that express my own suspicions about his fate, but she does have similar concerns. Not all of his friends are exactly upstanding, and some of them have become high school dropouts. And I learned from young Pote (Tho's brother) last night that Tho discovered on his recent trip back to Nong Soong that he rather enjoys having some beer with his friends.

The grandmother can't provide an Iron Hand.

He's a very nice kid, but if he goes back, I'm practically convinced he'll amount to nothing. I don't see Jack cutting off his funding, after all. If he's got some easy money coming in to blow on good times, why do anything but hang out with his friends, and live the easy life most young people would enjoy?

The bloody kind of life I'd like to be able to Retire into, but cannot afford to do!!!

Legendarysurfer, I do hope the fix you and your wife have come up with for the daughter proves to be the best play. Jack and I have to wait and see what falls out in the months early in the New Year before we can begin putting any kind of action plan into place.

I'm making this reply from work, legendarysurfer, but I truly want to thank you for offering those pointers. I'm going to print them out and ensure I have them at hand to keep them fresh in my mind, for I'm going to be bringing them up from time-to-time with Jack whenever opportunity permits.

I would never have thought of the possibility that his old school might not accept his progress over here, and instead deem that his Thai-specific education has lagged. As you say where your daughter was concerned, perhaps Jack may be able to find whether this will be the case for Tho, and it may have the deciding weight in the making of her own decision about him going back.

The Canadian citizenship angle is already very strong in Jack's mind. She wants both her sons to have this status in case one day it proves invaluable to them -- for whatever reason -- back in Thailand. After all, having it hurts nothing; but not having it can burn a bridge that can never be replaced. Apart from the fact that the boys would have earning possibilities over here to eclipse anything they'll likely achieve in Thailand, Jack has always felt passionate about them having an escape from the 50-50 chance of being inducted into the Thai military. She seems to have a rather strong antipathy to their military. Perhaps she's seen a friend-too-many agonizing over the peculiar draw that determines whether a young man becomes a soldier, or remains a civilian.

Personally, I feel that the lad would be a fool to give up on staying here long enough to finish high school, and to gain his Canadian citizenship. In a half-dozen years, his young brother could be making more at a MacDonald's in one month here than Tho could hope to probably earn in a year back in Thailand. What would that do to an older brother's self-esteem, particularly since by then it would be too late for him to come back here to get that precious citizenship? After all, I don't plan on remaining in the West. As soon as Jack's sons -- or son, if only one remains -- finishes high school, I'm becoming an expat. Consequently, Tho won't have anyone over here to sponsor him -- his chance will be pretty much gone if he leaves next year.

Jack has long wanted her sons to get their Canadian citizenship and finish school here, and then allow them to choose what they want to do with their lives -- go back to Thailand, or make a life here for themselves. She knows I've wanted to spend as much of my pending Retirement years in her country as I can, and she's keen to share in that with me. She just wants her sons to become Canadians, and to have their Western high school. Once that was accomplished, they could have returned with us to Thailand for however long they wanted; or stayed on in Canada, earning money they'd never be able to earn in Thailand, and returning to their Thailand home for extended periods whenever they might choose.

As I said in my previous post, the early months of the New Year are going to define what's ahead for us, and for Tho in particular. I'm going to keep your advice close to heart in the case that his own wishes prevail over those of his mother, and he does get to return to Thailand to live. It's going to be an almost irreversible decison for him. He'll never likely have the status himself to qualify for a Visitor's Visa to Canada, unless he manages to excel back in Thailand educationally. And I really don't see that happening. No, if he doesn't ride out the next few years here, then his shot at getting the most out of life is quite possibly done. I'll do my best to impress that upon his mother -- she really does need to take the hard line on this, by my estimation.

Thanks again, legendarysurfer!

Jack sounds like a very smart lady!!But getting through to the kids is the tough one.I would do everything I could think of to keep the child in the West until the formal schooling and dual citizenship was completed!