American - Middle East policy debate

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BKKSTAN
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Post by BKKSTAN » August 8, 2006, 11:23 pm

Bush and Blair caused it!No,I mean they didn't prevent it!Maybe ,it is to early to blame them!Let's wait and see if the problems go away!If they don't ,we can indict for not being concerned enough about Thailand!

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Post by BKKSTAN » August 9, 2006, 7:11 pm

Papy Ion wrote:
BKKSTAN wrote:Bush and Blair caused it!No,I mean they didn't prevent it!Maybe ,it is to early to blame them!Let's wait and see if the problems go away!If they don't ,we can indict for not being concerned enough about Thailand!

It seems that Thailand might develop new weapons of mass destruction... of its poultry! I hope that the American Bald Eagle won

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Post by BKKSTAN » August 9, 2006, 7:27 pm

valentine wrote:
BKKSTAN wrote:Bush and Blair caused it!No,I mean they didn't prevent it!Maybe ,it is to early to blame them!Let's wait and see if the problems go away!If they don't ,we can indict for not being concerned enough about Thailand!
Well you seem to have covered the whole spectrum of possibilites. It starts with a positive assertion that Bush and Blair caused it, then goes on to say you didn't mean that, then finally, its too early to blame them. Wow thats akin to backing every horse in the race.
I presume the 'It" was bird flu, well you may have noticed it is a concern in several Asian countries including China, so what lack of concern by those two leaders has got to do with it I cannot even start to comprehend.
:shock: You missed blaming them for not preventing it!Were you trying to repeat the criticisms as a mantra?Are you not concerned about your accuracy or was that case of intellectual license to show real superiority over lesser critics?Thanks for letting me know that I covered all the bases!If that is true,the focus for blame might shift elsewhere!But somehow I doubt it,Me thinks,antagonism is the preferred endeavor of many.So someone ,somewhere will prove that there are more''horses in the race''! :)

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Post by Papy Ion » August 9, 2006, 7:53 pm

BKKSTAN wrote:
Papy Ion wrote:
BKKSTAN wrote:Bush and Blair caused it!No,I mean they didn't prevent it!Maybe ,it is to early to blame them!Let's wait and see if the problems go away!If they don't ,we can indict for not being concerned enough about Thailand!

It seems that Thailand might develop new weapons of mass destruction... of its poultry! I hope that the American Bald Eagle won

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Post by BKKSTAN » September 18, 2006, 7:06 am

:) I think this is a very good analysis of the situation with Iran.And I would normally agree with any countries right to growth and prestige.But,the ferocious rhetoric from their leader coupled with the strong possibility that ''suicide bombers motivated by religious convictions'' would most likely have access to nuclear materials,compells me to believe the only course of action is to prevent the proliferation of WMD's from Iran.The option is their for nuclear fuel to be provided to them for peaceful means!


Ahmadinejad's growing confidence
Bangkok Post wrote:Iranian president's swagger on the world stage reflects mounting successes in Teheran's drive to resume its historic role as a cultural and economic powerbroker in the Middle East

By BRIAN MURPHY

Athens _ Back in June, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gave an impassioned monologue about his country's future. His comments at a public event in Teheran received only passing attention. But for anyone trying to understand Iran's mind-set in the ongoing nuclear showdown, it was a concise and clarifying lesson.

Mr Ahmadinejad spoke of Iran's aspirations to become an Islamic hub for science and technology, of Muslim views on justice and independence, and of the West's ''double standards'' in dealing with countries such as his.

While the West frames the struggle in largely strategic terms _ how to deny Iran nuclear weapons capability _ it carries many more shades from the Iranian perspective. They include echoes of ancient Persian glory and the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

But, in the end, it all comes down to Iran's vision of the future.

In the Middle East, it is seeking to reassert its historical role as a power and counterweight to US-backed governments in neighbouring Iraq and Afghanistan. Around the Muslim world, meanwhile, Mr Ahmadinejad tirelessly promotes an image of Iran as the 21st century model for Islamic progress, pride and piety.

''This is why the nuclear issue is so vital to Iran. Because, in reality, it symbolises much more than just nuclear power,'' said Davoud Hermidas Bavand, a Teheran-based political analyst. ''Any retreat is seen, in the eyes of the Iranian leaders, as a step back from their broad, long-term goals.''

Iran says its nuclear programme is for electricity _ a project that dates back to the US-backed monarchy in the 1970s _ and not for weapons. It now has a pivotal decision to make: accept international demands to freeze uranium enrichment in exchange for economic rewards, or stay defiant and risk UN Security Council sanctions.

At the latest talks in Europe, Iran hinted it could be leaning more toward compromise than confrontation. But it didn't appear ready to suspend uranium enrichment as a precondition for nuclear talks that could include the United States.

Whatever the outcome, oil-rich Iran's growing swagger is evident, and ties in with one overall aim: to position itself as a regional heavyweight that can no longer be sidelined by the West.

Ironically, Washington, which broke relations with Iran after militants seized the US Embassy in 1979, helped open the doors to the newly emboldened Islamic regime.

The downfall of two Iranian foes _ the Taliban and Saddam Hussein _ allowed Iran to rebuild its powerful links to fellow Shi'ite Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. On Tuesday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki received a red-carpet welcome at the presidential palace in Teheran.

Iran's clout also got a sharp boost from the groups it aids. Hamas took control of Palestinian politics in elections in January. Then Iran's Shi'ite proxy, Hizbollah, gained hero status among Muslims during this summer's battles against Israel in Lebanon.

''The strategic map of the Middle East is being redrawn. And a lot of it at the moment is going in Iran's favour,'' said Nasser Hadian, a political affairs analyst at Teheran University.

For many Iranians, it's simply the natural order being restored.

Iranians widely view themselves as the historical centre of gravity for the region _ in a legacy extending back to the Persian Empire. Iran, with nearly 70 million people, is the world's most populous Shi'ite country and about twice as big as Turkey or Egypt. Before the 1979 revolution it was an ally of Israel; afterward it switched alliances and, although not an Arab state, has inserted itself ever-deeper into the Mideast conflict on the Arab side.

In the leadership's vista of a progressive, independent Iran, the West _ particularly Britain and the United States _ is often cast as the obstacle.

Many debates on the nuclear issue within Iran include mention of political upheaval more than a half century ago when CIA-encouraged riots helped overthrow Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddeq, who angered the West with plans to seize foreign-operated oil operations. The Western-backed monarchy was quickly restored.

Scenes of the 1980-88 war with Saddam's Western-aided army are still staples on Iranian state television.

The Iranian leadership knows how to tap into these old grudges.

Nuclear technology is always portrayed as an Iranian right, which even the harshest opponents of the ruling clerics have trouble arguing with. Liberal dissident movements, which appeared re-energised after Mr Ahamedinejad's surprise election victory last year, are losing their momentum as leaders rally Iranians around the ''national cause''.

Nuclear power _ and the ability to enrich uranium for nuclear fuel _ has become a rare unifier in a nation with deep divides about nearly everything from media freedoms to the unfettered powers of the theocracy.

''A country that possesses technology to enrich uranium and produce nuclear fuel is considered a modern state. It gives prestige and higher image to our country,'' said Vahid Haghi, a political analyst who writes for the conservative Rah-e-Mardom newspaper.

In speeches to Muslims around the world, Mr Ahmadinejad has described the nuclear showdown as a test of wills for all Islamic nations. His calls for Israel's destruction have hardened the resolve of Washington and its allies to deny Iran nuclear arms, but have made him a champion among hard-line Muslims.

''He's seen by many as a kind of Iranian version of Robin Hood,'' said Alireza Nourizadeh, an Iranian dissident who hosts a satellite television show from London. ''It's a naive populism, but it attracts attention and is a challenge for the West to counter.''AP
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Post by laphanphon » September 18, 2006, 10:00 am

i think the UN and their world politics, and especially the backing of the extremely hipicritical USA is an embarressment to intelligent people. they only pick and chose the battles they can win, or think they can win, which haven't been many. by the time they pass a resolution and act on it, thousands have perished. they rarely follow thru with threats unless there is some benefitcial for saving that nation. it's a total waste of life and resources to try to rescue any of these nations without staying for the long haul, which i haven't seen yet. the only success story i can think of recently, is kuwait, after irag invaded, again, waited to late, to many killed and country looted. and the only reason action was taken, oil, and of course our good saudi friends were getting a litte paranoid. oh yea, our good saudi friends, who nobody can debate, financed the 9/11 attack and much of terrorism today.

if they wanted to stop wars, worldwide, it would be very simple. stop selling arms. oh yea, the reining members of the security counsel are the major arms suppliers of the world. that would effect the bottom line of profits. and the other little piss ant countries that supply arms, would it really be that hard to stop them.

iran, debate, debate, debate. just send a couple cruise missiles over and take out any facility you think is a threat. civilians killed, who the hell cares, as long as one peacekeeper isn't killed. the people of the country/gov't support their policy, so they should accept the price for being a threat to the rest of the world, or immediate local world. world opinion of taking out nuclear sites, who the hell cares. isreal seems to do what ever they want in defense of their nation. people protest, release a statement, then back to normal. i have to admire them for that, but hate their politics, because they alway try to put on the holier then everyone face, easy to do when controlling most of the world media, but in reality, probably are in violation of more UN resolutions and broken peace treaties than anyone else.

just my normal demented thoughts. want to really stop wars, stop selling arms.

excellent movie to watch, 'lord of war', nicolas cage, about arms dealers. a touchy topic, no studio would touch it, had to go to romania i think for financing and lions gate or another distributor picked it up for distribution, which they have done in the past, distrubuted unpopular or critical movies of the western civilized world. some of the trivia of the movie is eye opening. used a real arms dealers stock, as to make that many prop would of been too expensive, just film their inventory, easier and cheaper. one scene, they had to notifiy NATO, because they were moving his tank supplies around and didn't wantt to create an incident as if a troop movement was in the process when it showed up on satilite.

everyone dying in the name of their god for peace and righteousness, what a crock. all these nations caring about the others, what a crock. sales are up, start a war and provide arms for both sides. then get the contracts to rebuild the country.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

and life goes one, or is that death.
GOOD BYE CRUEL WORLD

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Post by BKKSTAN » September 18, 2006, 10:45 am

:lol: After all that,and to find out the Eagles lost in OT after completely dominating the game :!: What a friking frustrating world :cry: :cry: Nuke em all :lol: :lol:
How is the world supposed to overcome the fact,that every country always acts in there own selfish interest!Ocassionally,a country will make altruistic overtures with their rhetoric and sometimes with a vote that they know has no chance of winning.When put on the spot,they will always vote only for their selfish interest,never for what is best for the World at large :!:

The U.N. serves only one reasonable purpose!That is to provide a ''back room'' for talking and possible compromise to avert total tragedy from a complete lack of communication!

I am amazed how naive or wishful in thought,some people are that are maintaining a believe in one World governing and defense organizations.It's like pissing in the wind! :)

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Post by laphanphon » September 18, 2006, 11:48 am

After all that,and to find out the Eagles lost in OT after completely dominating the game
sounds like a metaphor for the UN :lol:

typical, Eagles are a foreplay team.
GOOD BYE CRUEL WORLD

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Post by BKKSTAN » September 18, 2006, 11:52 am

laphanphon wrote:
After all that,and to find out the Eagles lost in OT after completely dominating the game
sounds like a metaphor for the UN :lol:

typical, Eagles are a foreplay team.
:lol: :lol: Then afterwards,they sleep while the UN ''spins'' :lol:

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Post by arjay » September 18, 2006, 12:07 pm

I guess it must all be down to America's Middle East policy then!! :lol:

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Post by laphanphon » September 18, 2006, 4:45 pm

yikes, that scary, because they apparently don't have a middle east policy.

think it's give isreal anything they ask for, condone anything they do, kiss all the oil rich politicians butts, and blame all the worlds problems on anyone who disagrees with american opinion of how their countries should be run.
GOOD BYE CRUEL WORLD

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