Understanding Relationships with Thai women +

Long distance relationships, mixed relationships etc...
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arjay
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Understanding Relationships with Thai women +

Post by arjay » August 26, 2006, 11:30 am

I found this submission on Stickman to be very interesting and informative. It's all about relationships with Thai women, related culture, face, embarking on a relationship and knowing where you are in that relationship. Also reading the non-verbal signs and subtle nuiances, face etc.

Web link: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader20 ... er2971.htm

Quote from Stickman:
“You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth!” – Jack Nicholson as the CO of GTMO in A Few Good Men. This great line speaks to the group of farang men who are infatuated with Thailand’s women. If you are interested in a relationship with a Thai woman, you probably suspect already that there are some things about her nationality and her upbringing that will work against you. Or you have experienced enough by now to confirm this is so. But this is as far as most of you get. Staring across a few barriers at the object of your desire, without the ability to enter a good life with her.

For many, the desire overcomes their better judgment, and they rush in as fools, unprepared, and have a go at it, depending entirely on being nice, good-hearted, and good in bed to cement the relationship. Everything else is supposed to be overcome with money, and patience. The result is almost never good.

If she was like the girls back home, your chances were just 50-50. Being a self-respecting man, you would not even try unless your home-girl was pretty, had her attitude under control, and showed a sense of fair play. But the relationship only succeeds if you keep meeting each others' expectations, and that involves sacrifice. And as well, you had to get over the courtship barriers, which can be very expensive in all Faranglands. And you had to do it without setting false expectations you cannot keep up with later. That one is the downfall for most guys in the west. You cannot get the courtship to be an affair purely of the heart, all about what it is like to be with you. Instead, it is a material thing, how much money you spend to win her. The point being: Women are attracted to money and status, and men can play those things to get women. But it is a slippery slope, and it leads downward. It does not lead upward again further on.

Women are attracted to other things, as well. Good looks, athletic prowess, confidence, thoughtfulness, and being wanted. If you base your courtship in some or all of these things, you can set expectations that you can keep fulfilling, as long as you maintain yourself. You can get by on good looks for a long time, if you have them. If you do not, you can still be athletic. If you do not want to be athletic, you do not offer much to compel her lust, so do not expect good sex to persist for very long, unless sex itself is your forte. But that still leaves confidence, thoughtfulness and making her feel wanted. And being very strong on those things will get the job done.

Bob’s your uncle. And your Dad. You may as well face some truth. If you cannot work a relationship back home, you will have trouble here in Thailand, as well. But you may not know it yet. A Thai girl who presents herself as a girlfriend: She may be giving so much attention and affection, that you figure everything is working out quite well indeed. You should just keep doing what you are doing apparently so well, and things will turn out great. And you will be wrong about that.

Thai girlfriends give you everything up front, and they think you are giving everything up front yourself. That girlfriend leap of faith is very Thai. The unconditional friendship and constant affection is Thai. Customary. Complimentary with your meal, as it were. Thai women do not understand farang men that well, either. They do not read your non-verbal tells, your gestures of affection, or your unspoken actions as clearly as you would hope. They mis-read some of it, and think you are demonstrating things you did not thoughtfully intend. Many girls, even bargirls, will likewise not have a clue about commitment barriers you think are still protecting you, even when you concede that you two are boyfriend-girlfriend. If you are having regular sex, you are way past “just friends" in her world. You two are in “take care forever” territory. They do not know courtship norms of the west.

You will notice that those who do understand farangs a bit, will move things very fast towards a point where you must fish or cut bait. They know that once they “go girlfriend on you”, you have not made an equivalent commitment yet, and they want it sorted out first, so you do not string them along, toy with their heart, and then leave them flat <Yep, agree with this 100% - I call it the "fast forward button" - Stick>. If a Thai man tried to find her, fxxk her and forget her, her family would send a machete squad around to collect his 30,000 THB apology or his winky. But farang do not know this is the Thai way, so they are held exempt by Thai women. You are forgiven a great deal, because she is fascinated with farang, and has high hopes that things will work out to her advantage. Advantage. She does not believe only that she is surely going to achieve a long-term true love with you. She is looking at the entire playing field, not just the love outcome goalposts. There are just so many ways she can win, financially, even if the love boat runs aground.

Some Thai women will present themselves as available, not as a girlfriend. They are sending signals for casual sex, sugar daddy, and will give you the no-strings–attached relationship you may be looking for. If you can handle it. No questions. She is not available every time you want her. There are other men in her life. There are things more important than you in her life. She may tire of you or get what she wanted and move on, but you were not done yet. If you think you will need more than that, you would be hoping for a girlfriend.

And that is as far as you got. To go further, you must know some things. Like how to make a Thai woman feel like a woman, and feel wanted. Like how to convey confidence and self-control, and not get into trouble doing it. Like how to read her desires and her needs from the little hints she is going to drop. Like what to do when she starts lying to try to make everything turn out alright, instead of confronting the problem.

Learn Thai. Learn how it is written, spoken and expressed. How it is expressed, the facial and body language component of Thai communication, is not straightforward. It is subtle, and there are many “tells” in this non-verbal communication that give Thais the ability to convey whose side they are taking without saying so in words, the ability to ask questions about what is really behind something as they make statements of agreement to some request they are complying with. There is an ability to communicate deepest feelings of love, respect, concern, warning, fear, hatred, and need, while speaking something or doing something quite ordinary. That is a Thai thing. If you need to understand what she is really saying, and what others are really saying to her, learn Thai. If you want to gain the ability to be completely understood and clearly felt, learn Thai well.

Learn the Thai male identity. What is expected of an ideal Thai man, from his physical appearance and public conduct, to his business acumen and his ability to read people and maneuver around problems. You will not agree with it. It is not anything like the farang ideals you were brought up under, but it goes hand-in-glove with the Thai society and culture your Thai girl grew up believing in. It set her expectations for you, and it is what she will naturally respond to. If you can interact with her family and friends in such a way that you establish a Thai male identity for yourself, you will not have respect problems, slights, or insults to contend with. Think of it as the Pen, the Smile, and the Handshake that completes the Suit. Making a Thai identity for yourself is as simple as knowing and observing the custom for everything. Act within the cultural lines, with your manners, gestures, and especially, setting your clear rules of what you will not tolerate.

A weapon the farang is usually without: Knowing when to stop putting up with a woman acting out. Thai men will address this before an actual outburst ever has to happen. It is dealt with much deeper down in the subtle play on what she wants, what the man agrees to, what she is bothered by, jealous of, afraid of, and what the man has to say about each of those things. Thai girls will not come right out and say some things to a Thai man. He is expected to read her subtle hints. They have to come out and verbalize these things to farang though, and once this starts it is hard to stop it. They will peck away at you until they get what they want. That may take place verbally, if you cannot participate non-verbally. It is a face issue, and if you do not get it set right, it dooms your relationship.

The Thai who has Beauty, Health, Harmony, Possessions, and Power, has everything. A farang will understand beauty and health without needing to learn much. Harmony will be mostly new to you, though. It is why they lie. It is why undeserving people are given so much. If you do not understand what is being striven for, you will miss your turn, and Thai people will not count on you, or include you as a serious player. Possessions and Power are full of tricks as well. Your working knowledge of those things in the west will not explain Thai values accurately. There are times when you cannot use your power here, in order to still have it. It is a face issue, again. Some possessions are to be regarded as shared, and if you do not share them freely, you have lost face. Other possessions are regarded as intensely personal, and must never be loaned or borrowed, even if doing so is thought convenient.

Face is a barter system, which we use in Farangland, and it gets things done by favors, and breeds cronyist loyalties. It is in our politics; and our public image depends on it, if we depend on our public image. To whatever extent you favor, there can be no such fronts put up between friends, family, or professional colleagues. Western ideology has dispensed with face as a virtue. It is merely posturing. Not substantive to one’s true worth. Thailand does not have a hard currency of human worth to trade in, so face is the only system of barter to transact in, and like money itself, it gets you everywhere. You may need to learn some more things about face to see that, but when you finally see it, it is profound. It means that your face in Thailand is the truth about you. Maybe not to you, but to everyone else it is. And that sends you back to learning the language, the identities, and the customs.

Most farangs do not invest themselves in learning Thailand, so they are always at a disadvantage in relationships here. They want it to work, but are not equipped with the necessary tools to get it done. There is no use complaining. You showed up to a football game with ice skates on, and you are going to have a hard day. You can take the girl back to Farangland with you. That solves the learning problem for you. That puts all the learning on her. Without critical thinking skills, she gets to take on your culture, and get along with your people. She will probably go, but once she has you nailed with a kid, she will probably not stay.

What is the truth? Can you handle the truth? Can you understand the truth being shown to you with Thai subtleties as Face is being made good with the spoken words? Do you know how good you are socially if you do not know what ideal identity you're being compared to? Do you really know how to make her happy without knowing her ideology and its definition of happiness? If you want to set some limits on what you will not tolerate, would it be at all helpful to know how to show this, when and where, and how to tell whether she accepts it, or if she is now plotting against you?

I have a good life here. My relationship with a Thai woman is in its fifth year, and we are soon to be married. She has learned a lot about the rest of the world, and she wants to learn more. We are keeping it reconciled with her Thai world. It takes work. I learn more about her world in every exchange of ideas. My Thai identity is accepted by her family. Her father has the least desire to accept me, but the most reasons to. His women own his ass, and they all love me. I have made merit with all of her friends. There is not a bad word said about me, so far as I know. If you measure my situation by how often I am expected to buy things, how much attention is paid to me by the women and the men in her family, and what kinds of things her friends discuss with me, you will not find the telltale usury and abuse that surround a farang who is being taken for a ride. Nor will you see my lady clinging to me, asking where I go, calling me constantly when I am away, or throwing a ying-thing to get her way.

I like to read her face, pick up hints she drops, delight her with knowing what she wanted, surprise her with knowing what her mother and siblings wanted, take good care of her when we are together, and even while we are apart. I enjoy Thai customs, and I love to laugh and make good times with Thai relatives and friends. Things are getting to the point where my Thai girl is having good times among my farang friends and my own family. The forced smiles are gone, and the jokes are a 2-way street now. I believe our harmony and good spirit are mainly because I have learned about her world and she about mine, and because I treat each person in her world with the respect they are accorded by their position. It goes without saying that she has done the same, doesn’t it? She’s Thai.

Some of the Thais I am respectful to are real lazy turds, and lousy with jealousy. I would not give them a glass of water if they were drowning, if I knew them back home. But here, for face, I treat them with respect, and I make it as genuine as I can, because it is an extension of my love and regard for my lady and her friends and family. It serves those I care for, not these lazy Scousers. Make no mistake – there is no pleasing some people. I am hit with demands for things I have no intention of ever satisfying. But I handle it according to Thai custom: I agree, acknowledge, and go along quite nicely with outrageous requests and demands, then I delay, and delay, and downgrade what I offer to do, and downgrade again, until I am happy with the arrangement. Which often as not, amounts to nothing at all, just kind words. Like any Thai business negotiation. And they know what I am doing, and why, and guess what: They respect me for it, and hate me for it, and treat me with kindness and respect all the same. Any surprised faces? So...

We give as good as we get, now. When in Rome. Just come and collect. I guess that is all I can offer, in English, on the matter. I do not know if you find it helpful, but there it is, all the same. Relationships everywhere take work, anyway. If you cannot get through the Thai – Farang language and cultural barriers, you are just adding to that workload one helluvalot more. I used to think I wanted a career. Turns out, I just wanted paychecks. Maybe you feel similar about love. Maybe its better to just rent it. As for me, I did all that learning to support my profession. I took years learning it, and did not make any of it look fun or easy. I made a mess of the language for four years, until somewhere it just began to click. More like singing lessons, really. I am still learning. To me it has been worthwhile. To you....well? Up to you, handsome man.

Wat Dii!


Stickman's thoughts:

Excellent, really, really excellent. Serious thumbs up from me on this submission. The one thing I will add is that if you can find a Thai woman who is able to make the same effort with you and your culture, as you make with her culture, then you are well on the way to success.

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Post by BKKSTAN » August 26, 2006, 11:52 am

Generalized Truth!Now,to find someone ,besides himself,to reach perfection in relations with Thais in general!I have to confess,I am not willing to conform to all the ideals of any given culture.I absolutely insist on compromise to a near 50/50 situation.Maybe that is why I see my wife as ideal for me,she is not insistent on everything having to be ''the Thai way''!Our ways,attitudes,may inhibit us socially,but our marriage is honest,solid and more important than outside influences!We are very selective in developing relations with falangs and Thais.Culturally,we choose to be friendly acting with as little engagement as possible,staying ''under the radar''.
All this fits our personalities and our goals.Which is more important to us than conforming so absolute to Thai culture!

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Post by Bump » August 26, 2006, 11:59 am

Interesting remove the Thai customs and you have reltionships 101 anywhere.

For those us of still, confused were we really meant to understand women anywhere I think not, that would take away thier real power :lol:

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Post by arjay » August 26, 2006, 12:18 pm

I'm not suggesting that the article is the definitive solution on how to make relationships work in Thailand. There is nevertheless lots of interesting information, perspectives, points of views etc, that we can draw upon or just keep in mind.

A significant point that was re-inforced to me was how much Thais use and rely upon the more subtle non-verbal types of communication. The sort that many of us farangs are not so proficient at using! :wink: :D

Also, the issue of face crops up yet again. :!:

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Post by Bump » August 26, 2006, 12:20 pm

Wasn't implying that at all I think it was an interesting article, but I really don't see the difference with Farrang women to Thai women, in the non verbal area.

valentine

Post by valentine » August 26, 2006, 12:31 pm

Nice one Arjay. If I had the ability, it could well have been written by me, it reflects so perfectly my own feelings and sentiments.

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Post by Bump » August 26, 2006, 1:35 pm

The other thing I found intersting was four years to learn Thai and then to start learning Thailand. Think that was very accurate.

In three prior marriages and I have forgotten how many reltionships, which incldued an oriental woman for fourteen years. It was never what was said it was what I was supposed to percieve. For example I don't want a party for my birthday. Hidden meaning your worthless no good cuss you better have surprise party for me :shock:

She put on a patatoe sack and says hoeny do you like the is dress on me, better not say it's sack, better say honey you look good in anything.

This one really happened she goes in gets a perm comes back looking like Little Orphane Annie, do you like it? Bite your tongue do not speak the truth. Say it looks WONDERFUL, why she know it looks like hell, she just wants to know that she is still loved and a sexy lady.

My all time favorite do you think this makes me look fat, OK go ahead and tell here she looks like a beached whale, that you have put locks on the refrigerator and all the cabinets. Oh what a wonderful life you are about to have.

The best one here up to you, Ya! sure.

See what I mean

In that area I really find little difference and though I may understand at least some of it, I'm just not patient enough to play.

Now me I'm not going to get into head games with these Thai ladies, they are just darn smart for me.

The other thing I find interesting about Thai society, is that never express angry feelings. Now coming from a Western culture and spending all those years leaning not to bottle up or expect an explosion. Hard one to pull off. Anyone remember the cop in I believe Chaing Mai that finally exploded. That was not very Thai like or was it?

I wonder how many emotions are hidden in whiskey consumpution here. I also would not want to be the spark that ignites the fuse.

You know personally I'm very much still learning here, but I have to admit I woudl find it very distasteful to associate with people I don't repect. I wonder how much in his case that is busines related. I ahave much different personality at work then I do at home, the best I can remember about work.

In law's they come with the territory and one has to learn to flow with that.

Here is a good question fro you old timers, I'm not one yet but I'm working on it. How do you go about setting limits without being aggressive, in your behavior. Me I know it's wrong but I just lay it out and when the limits are pushed I say so. Not very Thai like but it seems to work in my house.

How does she let you know what her limits are? :cry:

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Post by BKKSTAN » August 26, 2006, 1:51 pm

If it works in your house,you have ''your answer''!
I believe you have to be true to yourself and ever mindful of your environment,not just a conformist.That is not to say that those that are more in the ''conformist ''camp are less than or more than!It's your life,live it in a way that makes you feel alive!

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Post by yorkman » September 18, 2006, 12:32 am

valentine wrote:Nice one Arjay. If I had the ability, it could well have been written by me, it reflects so perfectly my own feelings and sentiments.
Except about the "Athletic Ability", "Understanding the truth", "Why Wifes Thai and Farang do not accept this", Why wifes do not accept poor anger management scenarios".....agreed.

The ability........

:wink:

valentine

Post by valentine » September 18, 2006, 7:08 am

yorkman wrote:
valentine wrote:Nice one Arjay. If I had the ability, it could well have been written by me, it reflects so perfectly my own feelings and sentiments.
Except about the "Athletic Ability", "Understanding the truth", "Why Wifes Thai and Farang do not accept this", Why wifes do not accept poor anger management scenarios".....agreed.

The ability........

:wink:
Welcome back out of disguise Yorkman.Would you care to tell us all what your on about :?:

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Re: Understanding Relationships with Thai women +

Post by odanneyboy » May 2, 2017, 7:33 am

I have been doing business in Thailand for years. After many failed relationships mainly because as soon as the "girlfriend" mode hit the jealousy gets unbearable as even if I was late at the office or took my time picking them up I was automatically with another girl or my eyes would wonder because there is so many beautiful women there. Now being with one 2 years now and understanding and speaking her language things a smooth. I first let her handle the budget. I give her the daily budget and she pays for everything. This gave her a since of importance and face as when friends are with us and she pays for everything or the vendor she pays looks at her with respect. She says Thai people see that I let her control the money and she does well with it as she spends more tightly than I. She usually saves half of the budget and surprises me later with a nice gift she bought with the rest.

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Re: Understanding Relationships with Thai women +

Post by PAPA Z » May 2, 2017, 7:28 pm

Wow! I find all this truly unbelievable and humorous.
I've always maintained that there is no "perfect"woman or man for anybody. There is, however, the "perfect" woman or man for you.
And that's entirely up to how much bullshit you're willing to put up with.
The lesson here is I suppose, either you're all the way in or you're not. There is no middle ground so to speak, when it comes to relationships regardless of the race, or ethnicity of the partners.
A very wise person once told me this:
"No matter how good looking she is, how hot she is, some poor bastard somewhere is putting up with her crap".
Just my opinion...

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Re: Understanding Relationships with Thai women +

Post by retired » May 3, 2017, 11:51 am

Read then give it to your partner to read Thailand Fever its in 2 parts Thai / English :D

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Re:

Post by pf-flyer » May 5, 2017, 3:01 pm

Bump wrote:Here is a good question fro you old timers, I'm not one yet but I'm working on it. How do you go about setting limits without being aggressive, in your behavior. Me I know it's wrong but I just lay it out and when the limits are pushed I say so. Not very Thai like but it seems to work in my house.

How does she let you know what her limits are? :cry:
If you truly want the relationship to work, be honest and real with yourself and your partner. Be completely honest and truthful with your partner about your boundaries, wants and needs. People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. You should be an open book to your mate. If you have something to hide then you will have issues of trust. What kind of a relationship can you have with out trust ? When my wife and I started out in the U.S. back in 1973 with had nothing but each other and that was all that we needed. Both of us worked together. Both of us learned a lot over those early years. We did not own anything to squabble over. We worked together and stuck together. Both of us had a job outside of the home. We did not make selfish claims of personal possessions of hers and mine it was ours. My wife is a million in one and I know that there are other people out there that have been together with the same wife for as long as we have been together will feel the same about their wife.
“Don’t let yesterday take up too much of today.” — Will Rogers

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