Living Wills in Thailand

Post by **semperfiguy** » September 28, 2016, 12:44 pm

Lone Star wrote:
semperfiguy wrote:It may be worthy of note that no Federal or State document submitted for official business in the US will recognize a notarization from anyone in Thailand other than the US Embassy.
That hasn't been true in my case.

My state pension required a notarized seal from Thailand on all state document paperwork signed by my spouse when I was still working in the US. There was no requirement to have any of the documents notarized by the US Embassy. An attorney here in Udon notarized and stamped everything. No hitches. No problems. Done.

That was almost a decade ago.

And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.

Post by **Lone Star** » September 28, 2016, 1:06 pm

semperfiguy wrote:And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.

Well, I just sent documents notarized by the same attorney regarding a succession in the State of Louisiana. All of those were accepted by the courts in the past eighteen months. I don't want to take your money or make you pay for any donuts.

Every state has their own way of doing things. What's true in one state is not necessarily true in another. It's that way in both civil and criminal proceedings along with guns laws, drivers licenses, et al. What is true in Texas or Tennessee, may not necessarily be true in other states.

Post by **wazza** » September 28, 2016, 2:02 pm

Tragically the recent 2 expat fatalities seemed to have had delays in the release of the deceased.

Seems to me that the hospitals are insisting on embassy clearance and not other documents such as a.Living Will.

Post by **Lone Star** » September 28, 2016, 2:20 pm

wazza wrote:Tragically the recent 2 expat fatalities seemed to have had delays in the release of the deceased.

Seems to me that the hospitals are insisting on embassy clearance and not other documents such as a.Living Will.

There can be more than one Will, which is what creates the problems. Thai officials (and hospitals) want to cover themselves, and I don't blame them. I'm sure they've been burned enough in the past to have learned a lesson. Just ask immigration how many bogus "arrangements" they run across.

The Will is great for making sure who your beneficiaries are, but it pretty much has nothing to do with when remains are released.

Post by **Stantheman** » September 29, 2016, 6:07 am

Lone Star wrote:
semperfiguy wrote:And therein lies the problem. You're speaking of 10 years ago, and the same is not true today. And on that I would bet you a dollar and a donut.
Well, I just sent documents notarized by the same attorney regarding a succession in the State of Louisiana. All of those were accepted by the courts in the past eighteen months. I don't want to take your money or make you pay for any donuts.

Every state has their own way of doing things. What's true in one state is not necessarily true in another. It's that way in both civil and criminal proceedings along with guns laws, drivers licenses, et al. What is true in Texas or Tennessee, may not necessarily be true in other states.

Also U.S. State Department accepted their notarized form from step-son in Thailand authorizing daughter-in-law to get my granddaughter a U.S. passport. Was not seen or went through Embassy.

Post by **isaanlawyers** » November 29, 2017, 6:33 pm

Lastly, maybe 5 years, we never had problems in USA with notarized documents from Thai notaries, who are also lawyers in Thailand. Never means it never been refused ANYWHERE for ANY REASON.

Before that, yes. Many problems and only in USA.

Post by **Stantheman** » November 29, 2017, 7:21 pm

As an added comment, I have never had a problem with a notorized document from Thailand here in the U.S. for adoption or U.S. immigration over the past 13 years.

Post by **isaanlawyers** » November 29, 2017, 7:32 pm

Stantheman wrote: ↑
November 29, 2017, 7:21 pm
As an added comment, I have never had a problem with a notorized document from Thailand here in the U.S. for adoption or U.S. immigration over the past 13 years.

If notarized at embassy, 100% fine. But like I say, I remember in years 2007-2011, for our law firm, dealing with often American clients, we had to refuse Americans for notarial services. We were referring to embassy. Later clients insisted, we asked them to double, they said yes...and now, since about 2012, no problem. Maybe 2011.
I don't even understand why. Law in Thailand about it, or in USA, I think didn't changed.

Post by **BluSliver60** » March 8, 2018, 11:02 am

Hi I have read through all the post concerning this topic and I have come to the same conclusion as most people. I am skeptical about Bangkok Hospital Udon honoring a "living Will". I went to BH udon and spoke to the lady who deals with international affairs (same lady I spoke to about 2 years ago); asked her about the hospital accepting a living will, Her initial response was no. Then I showed the living will form used by Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. She said they have had only one person bring a living will with them upon an admittance but did not know the outcome.

She said she would have to call the hospital management to see what their current policy is however, she did state that the hospital is concerned about legal repercussions. She wants me to return, show her a detailed filled out living will form and then she will call management to obtain a decision. I spelled out what I want the will to contain, things such as a DNR order placed in my chart for all staff to see and others such as no ventilator, pain medical to include medical marijuana ( I know good luck with that), and morphine and be sent home to die. I think I scared her off because she said "bring me a complete form and I will get you a decision.

I think the best plan for me is either Wattana hospital, or if able, go to Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. I do not want to go to AEK because of the rumors cash upfront and being tied to a bed until the bill is settled.

Post by **isaanlawyers** » March 8, 2018, 5:05 pm

It’s the law. Clause 12 of the Health act.
If doctors or hospital do not respect it, they are liable.
We use them in 2 cases in Nakhon Ratchasima without any problem.

I am always sceptical to read that someone asked, verified, is not sure, bla-bla-bla. If you are not sure, that’s not information.

The law is the law.
In Thailand, some places do apply the law differently from a place to another. But that is so strong, clear and so dangerous to refuse to honor a living Will that I believe the people talking about that do not know what they talk about.

I dealt with Bangkok Hospital in Korat and also Maharat.

Post by **semperfiguy** » March 8, 2018, 5:42 pm

BluSliver60 wrote: ↑
March 8, 2018, 11:02 am
Hi I have read through all the post concerning this topic and I have come to the same conclusion as most people. I am skeptical about Bangkok Hospital Udon honoring a "living Will". I went to BH udon and spoke to the lady who deals with international affairs (same lady I spoke to about 2 years ago); asked her about the hospital accepting a living will, Her initial response was no. Then I showed the living will form used by Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. She said they have had only one person bring a living will with them upon an admittance but did not know the outcome.

She said she would have to call the hospital management to see what their current policy is however, she did state that the hospital is concerned about legal repercussions. She wants me to return, show her a detailed filled out living will form and then she will call management to obtain a decision. I spelled out what I want the will to contain, things such as a DNR order placed in my chart for all staff to see and others such as no ventilator, pain medical to include medical marijuana ( I know good luck with that), and morphine and be sent home to die. I think I scared her off because she said "bring me a complete form and I will get you a decision.

I think the best plan for me is either Wattana hospital, or if able, go to Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya. I do not want to go to AEK because of the rumors cash upfront and being tied to a bed until the bill is settled.

The last thing you want to do is seek counsel from a low-level employee. When was the last time you ever met one that knew their a** from a hole in the ground? And, if you ask a dozen of them the same question you will get a different answer from each one. The girl you asked didn't know the answer because none of them understand the full scope of their positions and have no desire to learn beyond the basics. They will never be committed to an answer because they are never sure they are correct and will not risk getting into trouble with their superiors for "thinking outside the box" and possibly overstepping their boundaries. The best advice is to go to the top of the legal chain in the hospital if you can find someone with enough common sense to direct you there. Good luck with that!

Post by **BluSliver60** » March 9, 2018, 8:23 am

isaanlawyers wrote: ↑
March 8, 2018, 5:05 pm
It’s the law. Clause 12 of the Health act.
If doctors or hospital do not respect it, they are liable.
We use them in 2 cases in Nakhon Ratchasima without any problem.

I am always sceptical to read that someone asked, verified, is not sure, bla-bla-bla. If you are not sure, that’s not information.

The law is the law.
In Thailand, some places do apply the law differently from a place to another. But that is so strong, clear and so dangerous to refuse to honor a living Will that I believe the people talking about that do not know what they talk about.

I dealt with Bangkok Hospital in Korat and also Maharat.

I realize clause 12 of the Health act is law however sifting though articles on this topic I have not seen that this law applies to private hospitals including one on your web site. If you say clause 12 applies to both public and private hospitals, then I will accept it to be fact.

Post by **BluSliver60** » March 9, 2018, 8:35 am

AA Ins Broker wrote: ↑
August 28, 2013, 11:40 am
The Bangkok Hospital group does accept living wills - if problems I suggest you ask them to talk to their Managers in BKK.

Do you know if the Bangkok Hospital group are under the same management. When I spoke to a representative at Bangkok Hospital Udon and showed her a living will form from Bangkok Hospital Pattaya, she stated the the management at Udon do not accept a living will, due to fear of legal repercussions. Of course she might not have had a clue as to managements policy. So I will keep trying to go up the chain of command until I get an affinitive answer.

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