Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 2:53 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:56 pm

. . .

the market is still down 4,000 from October . . .

Duh.

So do explain why a fall of over 5,000 the last thousand from the 22nd of December, caused by Trump and his Treasury Secretary which then is reduced to only a 4,000 point fall is some kind of amazing achievement

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 6:08 pm

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 2:53 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:56 pm

. . .

the market is still down 4,000 from October . . .

Duh.

So do explain why a fall of over 5,000 the last thousand from the 22nd of December, caused by Trump and his Treasury Secretary which then is reduced to only a 4,000 point fall is some kind of amazing achievement

Please point out where I said it was an amazing achievement -- other than largest ever one-day surge.

I have been consistent in showing how the market drivers of the economy affect the stock market. I did the very same in my post.

You're blinded by your hate for Trump.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:55 pm

Udon Map wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:20 pm

So while your enthusiasm is nice to see, let's stick with the facts as told by the numbers, and not spin things to suit your desired narrative.

I have reported facts of the day, and my enthusiasm is for that alone.

You have played "what if." As all Trump Haters do.

Not at all. You've cherry-picked facts and presented them as evidence that Trump is doing a great job. I merely suggested that there's another way of viewing those same facts. I haven't challenged the accuracy of the facts you presented.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:00 pm

Udon Map wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:20 pm

The DJIA (the average that was up more than 1,000 points), was up 4.98% for the day. Good, yes, but hardly the best one day rise in history. Here are just a few of the ones that better December 26, 2018 by more than double:

● October 13, 2008, up 11%
● October 28, 2008, up nearly 11%
● October 21, 1987, up 10.15%

and there are more.

I posted a NUMBER, not a percentage.

Indeed, you did. I don't dispute your facts; they're accurate. I did point out, however, that the absolute numbers aren't really significant. It's the percentages that really matter. Simple, basic math.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:07 pm

Udon Map wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:20 pm

But if the statistics are coming from MasterCard, this increase could just as easily translate into a huge increase in consumer debt, far from a positive indicator for the economy.

Consumers don't acquire debt during the holidays unless they are optimistic. Go back and look at the greatly reduced spending during the holidays when consumer sentiment was not high.

Completely agree. It is an indicator that consumers are optimistic. Do you disagree with the proposition that a large increase in consumer debt is likely detrimental?

Udon Map wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:20 pm

So while your enthusiasm is nice to see, let's stick with the facts as told by the numbers, and not spin things to suit your desired narrative.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:07 pm

And just exactly what the hell did you do?

1. Insinuated that I did not post facts.

No, I never challenged the factual accuracy of anything in your post. I did, however, question the significance of those facts.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:07 pm

2. Compared percentage increases to numeric increases.

Exactly. As I said, it's basic math. The significance of the numerical increase is less and less as the base number increases.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:07 pm

3. Completely ignored the fact that consumers don't automatically spend during the holidays -- debt or not.

Again, I don't dispute your facts. However, the level of household/consumer debt is significant for the health of the economy; and if the increased spending translates into tons of additional consumer debt, that's going to be a real problem.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:07 pm

You're full of bullshiggity, UM. You're pulling "what ifs" out the air to suit your narrative. Yes, you are.

No, not at all. We don't know what happened to consumer debt during the holiday season, and won't for a while.

I see that you, as usual, seem to be intolerant of people/ideas that are not in agreement with yours, and resort to name-calling and the like. IMO our single biggest problem now is the lack of ability to engage in civil conversations with people with whom we disagree. Calling me a Trump hater may make you feel better, but it does little to advance the civil exchange of ideas and opinions which is essential to a democracy.

Dems loved border security in the Bayrack days. Now Dems won't fund $5 billion.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 7:06 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 6:08 pm

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 2:53 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 1:56 pm

. . .

the market is still down 4,000 from October . . .

Duh.

So do explain why a fall of over 5,000 the last thousand from the 22nd of December, caused by Trump and his Treasury Secretary which then is reduced to only a 4,000 point fall is some kind of amazing achievement

Please point out where I said it was an amazing achievement -- other than largest ever one-day surge.

I have been consistent in showing how the market drivers of the economy affect the stock market. I did the very same in my post.

You're blinded by your hate for Trump.

I don't hate the petulant idiot how can you hate a stupid boastful child?
I hate his total destruction of respect that most had for the US, making it the least trusted powerful nation. His destruction of the the truth, 7,000 plus lies in 700 days, most of them stupid aggrandisement often instantly provable as lies. I hate that he has made the office of the president a laughing stock. I hate that so many people in a supposedly well educated country can be so badly manipulated that they can somehow be persuaded that all his lies are truth and that the truth is a lie.

Your post

Largest NUMERIC gains in the US stock market.

TOP FIVE
1 - 2018-12-26 - +1,086.25 FACT
2 - 2008-10-13 - +936.42
3 - 2008-10-28 - +889.35
4 - 2018-03-26 - +669.40
5 - 2015-08-26 - +619.07

Suggested that it was an achievement rather than a moderate correction

newtovillagelife wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 4:33 pm

skinner wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 12:07 pm

Shame he didn't have the balls to wear a uniform himself.

Heal spurs my hairy ar*e

Steady nonsense.

He sure had the balls to insult a war hero.What a cowardly loser.

It's now very probable the the bone spurs were another lie by a doctor doing a favour for his daddy.

He has also now managed to badly compromise military security by posting clear easily identifiable pictures of American forces (seal team members) whose job is to work undercover in hostile territory.

So lone star must be so proud.

sometimewoodworker wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 7:32 pm

Your post

Largest NUMERIC gains in the US stock market.

TOP FIVE
1 - 2018-12-26 - +1,086.25 FACT
2 - 2008-10-13 - +936.42
3 - 2008-10-28 - +889.35
4 - 2018-03-26 - +669.40
5 - 2015-08-26 - +619.07

Suggested that it was an achievement rather than a moderate correction

I was responding to the obfuscator based on his attempt to win an argument that I wasn't making.

Udon Map wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 7:24 pm

Not at all. You've cherry-picked facts and presented them as evidence that Trump is doing a great job. I merely suggested that there's another way of viewing those same facts. I haven't challenged the accuracy of the facts you presented.

There is only one way to observe facts. I presented facts. You presented "what ifs" with nothing to back it up. Just another of your assumptions based on a maybe.

I did point out, however, that the absolute numbers aren't really significant. It's the percentages that really matter. Simple, basic math.

In simple basic math, percentages might be irrelevant. A 100% increase of 1 is equal to 2.

A 1,000 point increase in the market is still 1,000 points -- no matter what math game YOU choose to play.

Do you disagree with the proposition that a large increase in consumer debt is likely detrimental?

Creating an argument that wasn't made -- again.

... let's stick with the facts as told by the numbers, and not spin things to suit your desired narrative.

My numbers were correct and factual.

No, not at all. We don't know what happened to consumer debt during the holiday season, and won't for a while.

But you're assuming it's debt that cannot be paid off. Some people pay off their balances monthly. I do. I'm not going to pretend that I know what others are doing with their balances.

I see that you, as usual, seem to be intolerant of people/ideas that are not in agreement with yours, and resort to name-calling and the like. IMO our single biggest problem now is the lack of ability to engage in civil conversations with people with whom we disagree. Calling me a Trump hater may make you feel better, but it does little to advance the civil exchange of ideas and opinions which is essential to a democracy.

My post was all factual. You chose to try to mischaracterize it as spinning things to suit my narrative. I'm not going to sit here and let you "spin" your narrative and make up arguments over claims that I never made. I posted facts.

You're entitled to your opinions. I'll spare your feelings next time and will only respond to your posts in the future if they contain facts to back up your opinions. Otherwise, they're the opinions to which you are entitled.

Happy New Year.

GET TRUMP.

Brilliant analysis by Dr. Victor Davis Hanson on Hillary, Trump and Bayrack.

The following is another in a continuing series explaining the disconnect between the US stock market and the US economy: Main Street vs Wall Street.

Trump's MAGAnomics doctrine has created a disconnect between Main Street and Wall Street. He has done this through his "America First" stance -- foreign and domestic. The disconnect may or may not have been intentional, but it is there, and it works.

This disconnect has separated the US economy from dependency on global markets and the economies of other countries This disconnect has not helped Wall Street favorably, but Main Street has been impacted very favorably. This is why the MAGA economy continues to produce results and decent to good to excellent numbers even though the stock market and global markets are skittish and volatile. The jobs and wage increases have provided much of this underpinning of Main Street, which spurs consumer/worker optimism. This is why the economy continues to chug along despite stock market fluctuations.

For decades, Wall Street and big business invested overseas due to the high corporate taxes in the US, which was not viewed as business-friendly due to massive amounts of regulations and taxation. Those investments generated products that were detached from the US economy and none of those overseas investments by companies enabled them to bring profits home inexpensively -- until Trump. They were double-taxed at an exorbitant rate. Many of those US businesses overseas are now repatriating foreign profits, and that added capital is helping to expand Main Street.

This disconnect -- which was not occurring during the tenure of previous presidents -- explains how the stock market grew under Obama. However, the economy was poor or flat -- with less than 2% annual GDP growth being the best indicator of the health of an economy. With Obama, there were millions more out of the work force, millions more on food stamps, counted part-time and contract jobs in the unemployment numbers, etc. Those weaknesses are exactly why GDP did not take off under Obama. Main Street was suffering. Global Wall Street still moved upward.

When Trump cut off the worship at the globalist altar and focused on America and Joe Lunchbox, Main Street began to directly gain from from the US economy.

Retail and Consumer Purchasing and Optimism are three of the largest drivers of the US economy. They affect both the GDP and the stock market in a big way. If the numbers in the US economy continue to perform well, and the stock market continues to be volatile, then it is easy to see that something else is driving the stock market to that volatility. The stock market and Wall Street are still global, which is volatile. The US economy is America First -- strong and still growing. Hence, the disconnect. An under-performing or volatile stock market may affect consumer confidence/optimism, but it's easy to see that the stock market does not drive the US economy.

White House Council of Economic Advisers Chairman Kevin Hassett explains the upside risks of the economy vs downsize risks of the market.





Wishing all a Happy and Prosperous 2019!

No , no way.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

December 27, 2018, 8:22 pm

Brilliant analysis by Dr. Victor Davis Hanson on Hillary, Trump and Bayrack.

How dare you present facts to the haters! As far as the bone spurs, I had a foot problem also. When I was taking my physical for the US Navy, the doctor told me that had I not enlisted in the US Navy that I would not have passed the Army physical because of my flat feet.

You should know by now that you will never convince rabid democrat haters of anything good that Trump has done. I seem to remember that Trump was going to start WW 3. Now when he is doing the right thing by bringing some of our troops home, now he is wrong again.

The cost of a border wall is a small fraction of what we pay to support Illegal immigrants. That seems to go over the rabid democrat heads. It's not the money, it's the get Trump mindset. Now that Trump has lowered taxes and the economy is booming, all the talk is about his increasing the national debt. How soon they forget that the savior Obama increased the national debt more than any other president in history. Where did all that money go? Was any of it used to repair the crumbling infrastructure? Democrats think that increasing welfare benefits and a huge increase in food stamps is good.

glalt wrote: ↑

December 28, 2018, 9:41 pm

How dare you present facts to the haters!

. . .

You should know by now that you will never convince rabid democrat haters of anything good that Trump has done. I seem to remember that Trump was going to start WW 3. Now when he is doing the right thing by bringing some of our troops home, now he is wrong again.

It's not for the haters. I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I rarely respond to any of their drivel. It's for those who just want to read a different side other than the wall-to-wall GET TRUMP narrative.

It has never been for the Haters, but they are arrogant enough to think it's for them.

The cost of a border wall is a small fraction of what we pay to support Illegal immigrants. That seems to go over the rabid democrat heads. It's not the money, it's the get Trump mindset. Now that Trump has lowered taxes and the economy is booming, all the talk is about his increasing the national debt. How soon they forget that the savior Obama increased the national debt more than any other president in history. Where did all that money go? Was any of it used to repair the crumbling infrastructure? Democrats think that increasing welfare benefits and a huge increase in food stamps is good.

Yes, the cost of destitute illegal aliens in our country is in the tens of billions per year, not to mention the crimes committed against our citizens. The Wall would pay for itself the first year.

And yes, Bayrack racked up twice the national debt of all 43 presidents before him -- combined.


Wishing you a Happy and Prosperous 2019, glalt!

Your first lady is an Alien and probably an immigrant not being a good ol American lady and propaganda minister let us remind you your not very good at wars you came in late WW2 and you got beat by kids on bikes in Nam so lets stop the old were winning your not very good at wars,

Oh I forgot you didn't lose in Vietnam your politicians lost it when most of your viet returned and tossed there medals across the fence the white house put up. Answer that or shut up.

My dear old Dad who is still going strongly at the ripe old age of 90, toiled manfully for many many years as a blue collar worker had a favourite saying say that a socialist /progressive government is the best form of government until they run out of other people's money. A family member is heading to the USA in April and the only thing he wanted was a MAGA cap to proudly wear. A happy new year to all those who believe that the harder you work, the luckier you become.

trekkertony wrote: ↑

December 29, 2018, 4:16 am

My dear old Dad who is still going strongly at the ripe old age of 90, toiled manfully for many many years as a blue collar worker had a favourite saying say that a socialist /progressive government is the best form of government until they run out of other people's money. A family member is heading to the USA in April and the only thing he wanted was a MAGA cap to proudly wear. A happy new year to all those who believe that the harder you work, the luckier you become.

Happy New Year to you, too, Tony!

Along the lines of that socialist foolishness, Brunel University London has discovered something that is very telling.

Physically weaker men are more apt to believe in socialist policies, such as redistribution of wealth. Their study indicates that physically stronger men are more likely to promote free enterprise and believe that people should keep more of their earned assets than be forced to give it to the unproductive.

Common sense really. Wimps can't fight the good fight to earn.

https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-event ... y-suggests

glalt wrote: ↑

December 28, 2018, 9:41 pm

The cost of a border wall is a small fraction of what we pay to support Illegal immigrants. That seems to go over the rabid democrat heads. It's not the money, it's the get Trump mindset.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the Trump government does not think that it will make any difference that the majority of both republicans and democrats know that it is completely useless waste of money that the overwhelming numbers of illegal immigrants overstay legal entries they don't cross illegally. That the vast majority of drugs enter through the airports and ports. So there is no support for throwing away the money.

So the 5 billion dollars now and a further 20+ billion laterTrump"s vanity wall will cost that was promised to cost the US tax payers nothing is a a broken election promise. It has nothing to do with border security. There is bipartisan support for improving border security.

If it would really make a difference there would be enough support to pass the bills.