First of all people should have to take real driver training to get a license with much higher requirements than now. Police need to enforce the traffic laws and consequences for breaking those laws has to hurt financially. People driving with no license or insurance should have their vehicles impounded and prison time for repeat adult offenders. Drinking while driving should be jail time plus a hefty fine. This may sound extreme but it would work and save so many lives. There is one more problem that I do not have an answer for, that is the Thai mentality. I can't count how many times I have had motorbikes and cars drive right into my path and not even bother to look. It is really strange, almost like they believe if they can't see you than you are not there. This thought process applies to train crossings as well even with the barriers down. Sometimes I will watch Youtube videos of accidents in Thailand and you can plainly see this happening. One that I remember very clearly is of a mother on a scooter with 2 children ride right across a busy highway while looking straight ahead, not even a glance to the right or left. Needless to say all were killed. I know these changes won't happen for a long time if at all so be as careful as you can.

Marcosteffano wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 9:52 pm

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 2:33 pm

Personally I cant see how Thailand has the number one spot, I think there are a lot of country's not in the poll, I have spent time working in India and Indonesia, those two country's are heaps worse just to name two, sorry but I don't believe Thailand has the real number 1 spot.

Probably because 90% of India are on foot and most don't even see roads and traffic.where Thais are 90% tooled up and love racing.

Seems like you haven't been there by that statement...

Re the Yamaha R3 acceleration 0 to 100km/r in less than 3 seconds. No, it's 6.5 seconds - Only the fastest bikes (1000cc+ sports) have sub-3 second 0 to 100km/h.

I hate driving the car here - makes me see red every time. Bike isn't much better either and I'm coming from a position of being (some years ago) a chief motorcycle instructor in the UK. I agree with much that's been posted regarding enforcement of the rules/laws, signage, visibility etc. But it's really the attitude of Thai's that's the problem. But we're not going to change that. Never. It's up to Thai's to change how they are on roads and in /on vehicles, and that will only come when they are shamed in to it. Greng Jai doesn't seem to exist on the roads at all, it's all for yourself.

I think at the moment if it's pretty much accepted by Thai society for 13 yr olds to ride Motobikes,maybe it's time to change attitudes in the classroom with compulsory road safety awareness lessons,also more tv government sponsored adverts at peak children viewing times,I remember the old green cross code adverts in the U.K.
And dare I say it for the Adults , adverts to refresh the memory on road rules such as approaching a roundabout,Traffic signals ,road signs etc.,they're be the usual grumbling but I guarantee the most vocal will end up taking a sneaky look,just because they'll want to keep their egos in tact.

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 5:23 am

Marcosteffano wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 9:52 pm

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 2:33 pm

Personally I cant see how Thailand has the number one spot, I think there are a lot of country's not in the poll, I have spent time working in India and Indonesia, those two country's are heaps worse just to name two, sorry but I don't believe Thailand has the real number 1 spot.

Probably because 90% of India are on foot and most don't even see roads and traffic.where Thais are 90% tooled up and love racing.

Seems like you haven't been there by that statement...

My point was they are too poor to afford wheels,I know the driving and roads are horrendous in India but statistics show Thailand is number one.stick the Thais back on to ox and cart or bicycle and you would see Thailand lose its place at the top.like I've already said I blame the banks and finance companies for arming the Thais with a set of wheels.i think if it wasn't for poverty you would see china,India and Russia all in the top spots.you don't have to visit a country to know what the roads are like,you can read or watch videos.try watching liveleaks.com...or crazyshit.com Thailand hardly pops up.anyway I used to get peed off with Thai driving but I take it with a pinch of salt nowadays,I treat everyone as an idiot on the road and try to stay clear of them.i sold my big bike this year because of these roads and I'm driving to krabi at the end of the month and taking 4 days not 2 to get there and deffo not driving in the dark.

There's a lot to be said for changing the attitude of Thai road users; be it their contempt for the few laws they are aware of or blissful ignorance of all the rest. As I see it, the key enabler is the lack of consistent and meaningful traffic law enforcement by the RTP. Nailing 2-wheelers without helmets or cars with out of date tax stickers is about all they're good for.

I note that there's a new initiative with new ticketing that kicked-off officially yesterday with a new department tasked with making it work. This, in conjunction with the steady increase of monitored speed zones and 'ticket-in-the-post' penalties, makes me think that the pressure is on Thai governments to actually work on the lamentable road traffic mayhem. Over 20 years ago, Thai drivers overwhelmingly eschewed car insurance as 'why pay for something that might not happen' and subscribed to getting cars blessed by the monks as good enough insurance. If you had an accident (and the cops dealt you a bad hand and you paid for all damage), you took it to a different, 'better' monk for re-blessing. It was pressure from foreign businesses and their governments, investing their futures in Thailand that finally beat the 'culture' of buggered up roof liners in LOS. We will see how the new enforcement goes; I am not holding my breath (been here too long) but I am quietly hopeful. I probably won't be around to see the first sub-10,000 annual road deaths but my kids will.

Philrjones has a great point with the concept of shaming bad drivers. There should be a visible stigma attached to having been caught, fined and otherwise punished. Since loss of face is a huge social stigma in LOS, anything that leverages a bad drivers loss of face could be beneficial. The same way as some US apartments attach large, flourescent and virtually unmovable stickers to the door glass of illegally parked or non-resident cars, there should be some sort of hugely visual pointer that indicates, "Look at me! This sticker cost me 400 baht! I am a dumbass!"
But since it is ALL about face here, I reckon the best penalty for any vehicle busted for a moving traffic violation is compulsory removal of any and all window tint. These poor buggers would suddenly lose their anonymity as they try to cut-in, run a red light and otherwise be a total dick. One of the things I do remember from my driving instructor was maximizing observation and his specifically mentioning looking through the glass of the car in front to see what he's seeing and improving your own look-ahead. That is a total impossibility with these buggers penchant for dark-as-night tints. Sure there's laws here for %age of tint that's permitted (and mirror-tints are totally illegal BTW) but the RTP don't see that as important.

If you get busted for being a dick, we get to see your dick... and you get a big orange sticker too!

Good point tam ........ my misses often says to me "what you looking at?" as I'm leaning right, to see round the car in front. When you can see the brake lights of a car 3 or 4 places in front of you go on, followed by the one behind him, you can be ready to brake well before the dumbass directly in front of you looks up from his mobile phone and has to do an emergency stop.
As well as restricting the tint on all windows there should be a total ban on placing stickers/toys or bl**dy flowers anywhere that can distract the driver or obscure his or adjacent drivers vision.

I sit and drink looking down at a crossroad junction in my village which gets chaotic between 5-7pm.i see near misses most days and what do you hear...laughter from the 3 up on scooters.they just think it's a joke.evolution is a big problem for Thailand and I can't see it working here for a long time as it's a farang thing.

tamada wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 9:23 am

As I see it, the key enabler is the lack of consistent and meaningful traffic law enforcement by the RTP.

Spot on Tamada.

This is the core of it.

There are no additional courses needed for the public, no further schooling, no change in national identity or mindset, no need to adopt the clever ways of other countries.

Just the cops doing their job and enforcing the law.

for 13 yr olds to ride Motobikes,...............10 Year Olds in Nong Khai......

747man wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 11:11 am

for 13 yr olds to ride Motobikes,...............10 Year Olds in Nong Khai......

With Stabilisers ?

Chuchi wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 11:20 am

747man wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 11:11 am

for 13 yr olds to ride Motobikes,...............10 Year Olds in Nong Khai......

With Stabilisers ?

Not needed ...... when they are doing 80kpm

Marcosteffano wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 10:02 am

I sit and drink looking down at a crossroad junction in my village which gets chaotic between 5-7pm.i see near misses most days and what do you hear...laughter from the 3 up on scooters.they just think it's a joke.evolution is a big problem for Thailand and I can't see it working here for a long time as it's a farang thing.

Same as you see Sawang Boriboon Foundation (and other body collectors) smiling when caught on camera as they are pulling bits of bodies out of wrecks. Then you get all the foreigners chiding them for finding things funny.

Smiling and laughing is an ASIAN thing when faced with visual horror, abject fear and shock. Bugger all to do with anyone being any more evolved than the other.

So Thai's smile and laugh while the 'more evolved' nationalities just ---- themselves? I know my preference.

747man wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 11:11 am

for 13 yr olds to ride Motobikes,...............10 Year Olds in Nong Khai......

My buddy was shocked when he saw 3-up getting on the motorbike before heading off to school.

"Why is HE driving?" he asked pointing at the 8 year-old cousin.

"Because the two 12 year-olds don't know how to ride a bike" I answered.

Marcosteffano wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 9:13 am

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 5:23 am

Marcosteffano wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 9:52 pm

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 17, 2017, 2:33 pm

Personally I cant see how Thailand has the number one spot, I think there are a lot of country's not in the poll, I have spent time working in India and Indonesia, those two country's are heaps worse just to name two, sorry but I don't believe Thailand has the real number 1 spot.

Probably because 90% of India are on foot and most don't even see roads and traffic.where Thais are 90% tooled up and love racing.

Seems like you haven't been there by that statement...

My point was they are too poor to afford wheels,I know the driving and roads are horrendous in India but statistics show Thailand is number one.stick the Thais back on to ox and cart or bicycle and you would see Thailand lose its place at the top.like I've already said I blame the banks and finance companies for arming the Thais with a set of wheels.i think if it wasn't for poverty you would see china,India and Russia all in the top spots.you don't have to visit a country to know what the roads are like,you can read or watch videos.try watching liveleaks.com...or crazyshit.com Thailand hardly pops up.anyway I used to get peed off with Thai driving but I take it with a pinch of salt nowadays,I treat everyone as an idiot on the road and try to stay clear of them.i sold my big bike this year because of these roads and I'm driving to krabi at the end of the month and taking 4 days not 2 to get there and deffo not driving in the dark.

I see your statement is not from personal experience only hearsay, the roads in India are so much worse hence there is no cred in Thai roads being No 1 for danger, just another crock of sh-t...

Fat I would suggest you go argue with the World Health Organization. Actually the W.H.O have identified Thailand as #2 in the world when it comes to road fatalities.

OK ALL, here's the file on every single country from 2015, -so you can see for yourselves what the numbers really are.

This is from World Health Organization.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prev ... 2.pdf?ua=1

2015 NUMBERS which are the basis of the 2017 report?

CAN ANYONE LOCATE A 2017 REPORT THAT SUPERSEDES THIS? Odd that the papers all write about it but none have given the up to date link.

THAILAND:
Reported road traffic fatalities (2012) 14,059c (79% M, 21% F)
WHO estimated road traffic fatalities 24,237
WHO estimated rate per 100,000 population 36.2
Estimated GDP lost due to road traffic crashes 3.0%

LOOK AT THE SHARP RISE THAILAND HAS HAD.

INDIA:
Reported road traffic fatalities (2013) 137,572b (85% M, 15% F)
WHO estimated road traffic fatalities 207,551
WHO estimated rate per 100 000 population 16.6
Estimated GDP lost due to road traffic crashes 3.0%
LOOK AT HOW INDIA'S TREND IS COMPARATIVELY "STABLE" and HALF THAT OF THAILAND (if such a word could be used)
If you have another organization, make note of it. But don't just say the organization's name and then not provide some useful document.

It's not supposed to be a p1$$ing contest between India or Thailand.

Easy to agree they both are HELL to drive in right?

F me, having been on both sets of roads I know where my life felt threatened the most, so some NGO organisation is not going to tell me what I discovered first hand through experience, work it out for yourself, I have...

fatbob wrote: ↑

December 18, 2017, 7:09 pm

F me, having been on both sets of roads I know where my life felt threatened the most, so some NGO organisation is not going to tell me what I discovered first hand through experience, work it out for yourself, I have...

That's fine. But you're speaking for yourself. Which is quite fair.

But there's a difference between your very welcome opinion on the matter and especially your legitimate and very real experience of danger vs. the sheer numbers of dead (per capita).

Two totally different things. Can we all at least agree on that? Maybe what we're all on about is still spot on.

One might appreciate that "some NGO you refer to at least tried to cover every single country in the world in this regard and even provide in depth charts as to who has what laws, and even measurements as to levels of enforcement for EACH area of concern, right down to BAC limits and if Local law enforcement can modify the limits.

I'd say such an effort should be appreciated even congratulated, if not respected..

THAILAND has 26% DUE TO ALCOHOL WHEN INDIA HAS 5%.

AND LOOK HOW POOR INDIA IS YET THEY MANAGE TO BE SAFER