gprit wrote: ↑

September 19, 2017, 1:14 pm

Some basic questions....I am looking to buy a small bit of land with Chonote title.

1) why is Red better than Green/Black?
2) if the land has a Chanote title (any colour) is it automatically land upon which a house can be built?
3) If it is/is not, do we HAVE to get both Building Permit and Building License? SHould we ensure this BEFORE we sign to buy?

I am finding prices per Rai way way high even in small villages around 80km west of Udon...and yes it's my Thai wife who does the asking, with me out of sight!

There is only one title that is correctly called Chanote, it has the red garuda or khrut on it and is the Nor Sor 4 Jor

The only right it gives is ownership of the land.

None of the other land titles should be called a Chanote. It is the only title that actually gives your wife ownership of the land.

Though the three versions of the Nor Sor Sam (3) titles are often reasonable, in diminishing value and safety they are Nor Sor Sam (3) Khor (survey and boundary posts), Nor Sor Sam (3) Gor (aerial survey) and Nor Sor Sam (3) (agreements with neighbours) they can often be upgraded to Nor Sor 4 Jor(Chanote)


Depending on how far you are from a town you may not need any permission or building permit (we did not)
You say the prices are high. How high? It could be that the owner doesn't really want to sell. You may need to keep going until you find someone who needs the money before you will get a reasonable price.

I agree and am going along the lines of Vince's "...Yes, it's your land, BUT, my advice i"
We are going to the locality where we wish to purchase, and talking to owners 'on the ground'.
We are not going to live there ourselves and although I have read and considered Usufruct, it's not something I am going to do - as you say if we are married there's not a whole lot of protection anyway. If the worst ever did happen (and I am an optimist to think it won't...) then I will say ok...you live in Thailand I'll live in my house in France....
btw West Ham are in a bit of a sorry state right now!

We were in the Land Office in central Udon a couple of weeks back & the head honcho is refusing to grant any Usufructs whatsoever with the only reason from what I can tell is because he can

Nigglyb wrote: ↑

September 20, 2017, 5:24 pm

We were in the Land Office in central Udon a couple of weeks back & the head honcho is refusing to grant any Usufructs whatsoever with the only reason from what I can tell is because he can

That's not unusual, lucky it only applies to the area under his control. It is also sometimes a changeable decision.

gprit wrote: ↑

September 20, 2017, 5:21 pm

I agree and am going along the lines of Vince's "...Yes, it's your land, BUT, my advice i"
We are going to the locality where we wish to purchase, and talking to owners 'on the ground'.
We are not going to live there ourselves and although I have read and considered Usufruct, it's not something I am going to do - as you say if we are married there's not a whole lot of protection anyway. If the worst ever did happen (and I am an optimist to think it won't...) then I will say ok...you live in Thailand I'll live in my house in France....
btw West Ham are in a bit of a sorry state right now!

Well the protection is somewhat variable. In the case of divorce it may not be worth much if anything, but would you be comfortable staying anyway?

However if there is some kind of accident or terminal illness to your partner then in my opinion it could be extremely valuable and the protection real and worthwhile.

Yeah, I since heard he's the only one in Isaan who isn't prepared to register an Usufruct. We weren't actually applying for an Usufruct at the time, just called to the side & given a special talking to about not even attempting to register as I was a farang accompanying wifey
The rule will change or he'll get moved soon enough so no worries for me

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 20, 2017, 2:16 pm

To my knowledge and with every purchase I've made so far, all red chanotes are dealt with by the Tessabahn either in town or at a local Tessabahn office, I'd be very worried if I was dealing with a village official at all, I think they tend to deal with the nor sor sam's etc, I'd steer well clear of those "agreements" and stick to full unencumbered chanotes.

Sorry i think you are wrong,nor sor sam3 had to be dealt with by my tessaban in nong wua so.if your on about the village official being the phu yai ban,he can't sort out nothing in a legal sense.myself I would rather have a nor sor sam and usufruct than a chanote.i know the history of my property and the farang who lived here for over 20 years sold off plots around it and titles with it.oh and he only done that because his darling wife who loved him so much gambled and he kicked her out and sold some land off and stuck the house in a lawyers name.

gprit wrote: ↑

September 20, 2017, 5:21 pm

btw West Ham are in a bit of a sorry state right now!

Ain't that the case! Billic hasn't got Payet to make him look good any more, he'll have to become a proper manager now, it might help if he tried new faces every now and again. Anyway, I'll take our win last night as a sign of things to come, please God.

Nigglyb wrote: ↑

September 20, 2017, 5:24 pm

We were in the Land Office in central Udon a couple of weeks back & the head honcho is refusing to grant any Usufructs whatsoever with the only reason from what I can tell is because he can

Like any Head Honcho, he has the discretion to refuse or issue, despite the fact that its legal and Thai law allows etc

This goes back a few years and the last know one issued that Im aware , was as a result of a court challenge where he was ordered by the Court to issue one. issued and then he insisted on visiting to confirm co habitation on numerous occasions.

Oh, didn't realise he'd been there a few years, I wrongly assumed from wifey & entourage he was fairly new & trying to make a mark on the job
Anyway, like a I said, I was just the chauffeur so not even attempting to do anything with an usufruct. It just tickled me to be called to the side with wifey & have it explained to me "you farang, no usufruct" & "farang no land" when all I was doing was loitering on the sidelines. Still don't really know why they felt the need to do this without checking what we were doing there in the first place

N

Could be a different guy still, following in the same tracks

Possibly different

Dark hair & brown eyes?

We have seen some land for sale in Phakhaow province at reasonable price..
This is Nor Sor Saam Gor land (although has boundary posts). I have a few questions:
1 Is it easy/routine to get the land upgradedto full Chanote? What is procedure/timescales?
2) Land is mortgaged to a bank. We went there yesterday with the owner to confirm amount needed. How does this work?.....we go to bank with owner...repay the bank...get Land Title/paperwork. BUT, at that stage we will have paid the money BUT the land is still in owners name until changed at Amphur. What safeguards can be put in place to avoid the ' I need x baht more to sign situation?)
3) The land will be split in two with my wife's sister (she is paying half). Is this better done at the time of sale or later? Is there any additional tax to be paid doing this?

gprit wrote: ↑

September 30, 2017, 1:59 pm

We have seen some land for sale in Phakhaow province at reasonable price..
This is Nor Sor Saam Gor land (although has boundary posts). I have a few questions:
1 Is it easy/routine to get the land upgradedto full Chanote? What is procedure/timescales?
2) Land is mortgaged to a bank. We went there yesterday with the owner to confirm amount needed. How does this work?.....we go to bank with owner...repay the bank...get Land Title/paperwork. BUT, at that stage we will have paid the money BUT the land is still in owners name until changed at Amphur. What safeguards can be put in place to avoid the ' I need x baht more to sign situation?)
3) The land will be split in two with my wife's sister (she is paying half). Is this better done at the time of sale or later? Is there any additional tax to be paid doing this?

No brainer

Get a lawyer to transfer all this, or you could loose out in many ways

In the mean time, go to the Land Office and ask them the procedure for what you need to do as well.

gprit wrote: ↑

September 30, 2017, 1:59 pm

We have seen some land for sale in Phakhaow province at reasonable price..
This is Nor Sor Saam Gor land (although has boundary posts). I have a few questions:
1 Is it easy/routine to get the land upgradedto full Chanote? What is procedure/timescales?
2) Land is mortgaged to a bank. We went there yesterday with the owner to confirm amount needed. How does this work?.....we go to bank with owner...repay the bank...get Land Title/paperwork. BUT, at that stage we will have paid the money BUT the land is still in owners name until changed at Amphur. What safeguards can be put in place to avoid the ' I need x baht more to sign situation?)
3) The land will be split in two with my wife's sister (she is paying half). Is this better done at the time of sale or later? Is there any additional tax to be paid doing this?

Then it is in fact Nor Sor Sam Khor title as that has the posts (easy to not know or mishear). How easy how long to change is totally dependent on the land office, the process may be able to be made shorter with a little monetary incentive.

It is quite possible, depending on the banks agreement, to conduct the complete process in the land office with all three parties attending. AFIK the bank has to attend anyway to free the title paper from its mortgage.

Talk to the bank. If they are agreeable then there is probably no need for a lawyer.

I would think that splitting the land at the time of transfer would be best.

Thanks - that's a sensible option. Appreciate the first reply but really it's a small village, seller known etc. so really trying to avoid solicitor fees at their hourly rate. Khor or Gor? asked my wife again, and she is adament teh bank sais it was GOr, despite there being posts there (which we measured the land agaianst).

Another question has cropped up(!) The land purchase price is 480,000 baht (which we will be paying in cash). It seems there will also be a Land Department charge to transfer(?) They could not give a figure -not sure why not - but said it could be 1% 2% or 5% and they wouldn't know until they see the paperwork.

Any thoughts/comments?

I ame across this also:
"appraised value or government assessed value is not the sale price but an assessed value of the real property based on a calculation method by the Land Department and the Treasury Department and is used by the land office to determine the amount of tax that must be paid."

ANyone know whether the appraised value is usually below the market value/price paid?

gprit wrote: ↑

October 3, 2017, 4:34 pm

Another question has cropped up(!) The land purchase price is 480,000 baht (which we will be paying in cash). It seems there will also be a Land Department charge to transfer(?) They could not give a figure -not sure why not - but said it could be 1% 2% or 5% and they wouldn't know until they see the paperwork.

Any thoughts/comments?

this could be from the status of the property with the owner now, if less than 5 years and sold on, higher tax from memory... or a similar comparison , Capital gains issues etc

gprit wrote: ↑

October 3, 2017, 4:50 pm

I ame across this also:
"appraised value or government assessed value is not the sale price but an assessed value of the real property based on a calculation method by the Land Department and the Treasury Department and is used by the land office to determine the amount of tax that must be paid."

ANyone know whether the appraised value is usually below the market value/price paid?

Sorry this is only in Thai, but here are appraisal prices for the whole Thailand. Data is divided per street level.

http://www.treasury.go.th/main.php?filename=price_thing