vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 1, 2018, 8:48 am

Although we campaigned on a basis of hard Brexit as they are now calling it we were given a choice of either fully out or fully in, there was no wishy washy in between, this has reared it's ugly head due to the hierarchy trying to protect the gravy train that so many career politicians have found themselves on. All said and done, as much as I and others would prefer it, it's unlikely we will leave without a deal, it's very much in the EU's interest to ensure we don't. If I were back in the UK I would be back on the campaign trail trying to get the Brexit we voted for but I fear it's too little too late.

The socialist EU and some UK politicians are propagandizing to the citizens of the UK what socialists/globalists propose to everyone: create a victim mentality with the idea that survival is impossible without the state doing everything. I hate to see the UK get sucked back into that diabolical web of failure.

Once again you read it wrong and your assumption doesn't make sense, it's all about trade, it's 100% in their interest to ensure we deal together, without the UK market there's quite a few mainly Northern European industries that will go pop, it's unlikely a no deal Brexit will affect the UK in the same way.

Statistics on UK-EU trade - Parliament UK
PDFresearchbriefings.files.parliament.uk › C...

You don't need trade deals to trade. My country doesn't have a trade deal with the US or the EU as the price is too high for each country. That's cool. We still trade with each other.

The EU's first priority is to protect the EU breaking up. That's what is constraining them on trade and their bottom line in the negotiations. They're less sensitive to sector squealing because they're less democratic.

I can see im wasting my time, you just dont get it and most likely never will.

Up to you. I'm happy to kick the can around. If your opinion is widely accepted among experts, I'm interested in reading links.

It usually takes the EU ages to do anything. It's a mega bureaucracy. That alone is one reason Brexit was always going to be really difficult. The British government, even if functioning well, has in my opinion an almost impossible task.

Where are you from GT93? It's very unlikely your country doesn't have a trade agreement with the EU or the US, even if you trade freely you need a free trade agreement.

New Zealand. We don't have a trade agreement with either.

You can trade without trade agreements. I suspect we have trade agreements with fewer than 20% of the countries in the world and that wouldn't be unusual. The EU has recently turned up downunder (Oz and NZ) seeking trade agreements.

The Americans rejected the Trans Pacific Partnership. NZ is part of that. The US has an agreement with Australia but there was an important study saying Australia is worse off because of this agreement. The Americans, as the UK will learn, ask for the sky. Even in pre-Trump days.

We have a trade agreement with China. China is seen as an easier and pretty reliable trading partner. The UK has been having informal chats about trade agreements downunder.

No you can't trade without an agreement, even if you trade freely you need an FTA, something NZ is trying to put into place with the USA, EU and several other countries, you already have 16 in place with other WTO members.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=New-Z ... agreements

The ideal scenario would be if the UK also negotiated an FTA with the EU under regulation of the WTO, this would ensure smooth imports and exports between the two trading partners, if there isn't an agreement there is potential for disruption in the movement goods, that wouldn't suit anyone, it would be bad for manufacturers as most need smooth supply chains of parts etc and it would be a disaster for farming for obvious reasons.

Read somewhere yesterday or the day before that May is NOT going to call for a new Brexit vote.

She says an awful lots of things LS, we desperately need a new PM, PREFERABLY ONE WITH A SPINE.

Lone Star wrote: ↑

September 3, 2018, 4:12 pm

Read somewhere yesterday or the day before that May is NOT going to call for a new Brexit vote.

Exactly right. Even if she wanted to, she knows she would be run out of town on a rail along with her frail coalition government.

The clamour by the Remainers for the people to have the 'final word' aka a new Brexit vote, on what their elected government has (or has not) negotiated with Brussels. They have long claimed the ignorant British people were the ones that voted to leave and got them into this fine mess. Now they expect the same ignorant lot to suddenly have an epiphany and vote t'other way and save their worthless souls?

Staggering hypocrisy... but that's not unique to British politicians.

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 3, 2018, 4:29 pm

She says an awful lots of things LS, we desperately need a new PM, PREFERABLY ONE WITH A SPINE.

It's true. Half the problem is having the Brexiting nation led by a person who's fundamentally a Remainer. You look at May's cabinets since she got the job and the top picks still feature fellow remainers. No wonder Davis threw the towel in.

But looking across that bleak British political landscape, are there really any shining lights? BoJo and Gove were the most vociferous Brexiteers but after Gove pulled the 'et tu Brutus' on BoJo in the Tory leadership battle, Johnson was thrown a quite significant bone as Foreign Secy... just to keep him distracted and/or quiet. It didn't work out but we still do not see him having enough of the party and voter backing to become the main man and he knows it as well. It's not his time yet... and TBH, I hope it never will be.

Gove. Far to cerebral for the average 9-to-5'er and probably would only work well in the ideal world scenario. The whole world is inching away from ideal worldliness and I don't think he's enough of a political animal (yet) to survive alone in the wild but he's made a promising start when he startlingly distanced himself from Johnson (above). Otherwise, he's really good at talking up what he thinks needs to be done to make the ideal world ready for him to step in as the British country manager. Think tank material and 'political sage' will probably be somewhere in his epitaph.

The back-bencher, double-barrel named guy with hundreds of millions of pounds net worth, the "Honourable Member for the 18th century"... Rees-Mogg. He even floated the idea of a coalition with UKIP back in the days before Farage left the building and that party imploded. The only bona fide, 101% Brexiteer from way, way back when being Eurosceptic kept you off the invite list of a lot of society events and on the back benches. No, arguably too right wing and very divisive. Too scary.

Well Tam, surprisingly I agree with most of what you write above, your assessment of what's going on within the Conservative party is pretty much spot on and I agree that not only is it not BoJo's time I don't think it ever will be, the man is a complete and utter buffoon and should never be put in such an important position. The one point I disagree with is your synopsis of JRM, i honestly think he is a PM in waiting and while he doesn't enjoy huge support within the hierarchy of the Tory party or it's NEC, he is a huge favourite among grass root conservative voters and they will be what decides when he takes the helm. Insofar as your assessment that he's a scary right wing divisive politician.. I couldn't disagree more, what makes him too right wing or devisive? I'm genuinely intrigued.

Looks like the gloves are off between BoJo and T May , but fear not Jezza Corbyn says its time for someone serious to take over negotiations.

What a mess that government has turned into. Shameful -- but as the saying goes, people deserve the government they have. It's a good reflection of the country as a whole.

Giggle wrote: ↑

September 4, 2018, 12:47 am

What a mess that government has turned into. Shameful -- but as the saying goes, people deserve the government they have. It's a good reflection of the country as a whole.

Oh dear... in your rush to disparage the great British nation, you completely missed an absolute sitter there giggle.

3 out of 10

The sh!tshow that is the British government needs no assistance from anybody in demonstrating what abject fools they are. It's like watching the Rocky and Bullwinkle show without the funny parts. If that is the best Britain can muster, it's no wonder the country is swirling down the toilet of irrelevancy. Perhaps May can consult Sir Robert Mugabe on the finer points of incompetent leadership the next time she's dancing through Africa. (Mayday!) What a disaster.

vincemunday wrote: ↑

September 3, 2018, 7:22 pm

Well Tam, surprisingly I agree with most of what you write above, your assessment of what's going on within the Conservative party is pretty much spot on and I agree that not only is it not BoJo's time I don't think it ever will be, the man is a complete and utter buffoon and should never be put in such an important position. The one point I disagree with is your synopsis of JRM, i honestly think he is a PM in waiting and while he doesn't enjoy huge support within the hierarchy of the Tory party or it's NEC, he is a huge favourite among grass root conservative voters and they will be what decides when he takes the helm. Insofar as your assessment that he's a scary right wing divisive politician.. I couldn't disagree more, what makes him too right wing or devisive? I'm genuinely intrigued.

Aye vince, it's a bloody shambles and although I don't have much in the way of vested interests back home, it's still a vexation. My sister, 63 years-old, a single-mum (of 2) by way of late pregnancies, finds herself on the scrapheap back there due to a sh!thead ex-husband and poor personal choices despite having two degrees and a masters. She has an even more impolite descriptive for Johnson! She had a good administrative job with an innately corrupt wee niche of the NHS so some ugly inter-office politics and starkly illegal management actions saw her dismissed (think stopping a whistle-blower on fudged numbers used for government budgetary requests). I think you and I probably agree on a whole lot of stuff and that doesn't surprise me in the least. It's just these preconceptions that come from 'knowing' someone solely from their posts on a relatively anonymous internet forum tend to get in the way for some.

The things that have you intrigued are couched in your own political bias and beliefs which are different from mine so let's not clutter up this thread qualifying those differences of opinion. You and I have our beliefs, I hope (mostly) mutually respected, so I'm not going to bore other members with illuminating those differences here. Having said that, I think Rees-Mogg will probably prevail despite my misgivings. I think it's called Hobson's Choice? This is a good thread with solid, relevant subject matter... as long as we can keep the vvankers from the peanut gallery from degrading it with facile comments and irrelevancies. The pr!cks would see you and I debating here and they would glibly comment about our shattered, divided and hopelessly lost nation. I'm not about to give them the bandwidth. I have enough mossies to swat on my own front porch right now.

Giggle wrote: ↑

September 4, 2018, 11:50 am

The sh!tshow that is the British government needs no assistance from anybody in demonstrating what abject fools they are. It's like watching the Rocky and Bullwinkle show without the funny parts. If that is the best Britain can muster, it's no wonder the country is swirling down the toilet of irrelevancy. Perhaps May can consult Sir Robert Mugabe on the finer points of incompetent leadership the next time she's dancing through Africa. (Mayday!) What a disaster.

The British media have already had their fun with May's tortured dancing but thanks for trying to keep up. Recalling then Labour leader Ed Miliband's unfortunate photo-op with bacon sarny, we Brits have this innate ability to poke fun at our own unfortunate politico's and then move on to the more salient, more relevant points. By the same token, British statesmen and stateswomen don't get all hot, bothered and twittery when someone takes the p!ss out of 'em.
Anyway, since Mugabe is already pushing up daisies, if you have a reference for a good, reliable medium, then feel free to pass it on to the PM's office so they can move on your otherwise excellent suggestion.

PS. Wikipedia says, "In 1994, Mugabe was appointed an honorary Knight Grand Cross in the Order of the Bath by Queen Elizabeth II. This entitled him to use the postnominal letters GCB, but not to use the title "Sir." In the United Kingdom, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee called for the removal of this honour in 2003, and on 25 June 2008, the Queen cancelled and annulled the honorary knighthood after advice from the Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom.

2 out of 10

Must try harder.

Oooooooo! I vote for Doris Stokes!