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Thailand laws, tips and advice.
richard-px1
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Post by richard-px1 » August 19, 2011, 4:25 pm

I have today experianced a very strange feeling,Has anyone felt this,?
As i try to be a good boyfriend to my Thai partner,and also as i wish to notify the right people when i pop my glogs,today i sat at the computer and drafted several letters,ie,to my UK pensions office,the British embassy BKK,and several others ,informing them of my death.
All this to save my girlfriend the worry and hassel,once im gone.
BUT , what a strange feeling,doing a letter ready for when im already dead.Anyone else had any pleasant thoughts like this,regarding their demise. :(



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nkstan
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Post by nkstan » August 19, 2011, 6:50 pm

richard-px1 wrote:I have today experianced a very strange feeling,Has anyone felt this,?
As i try to be a good boyfriend to my Thai partner,and also as i wish to notify the right people when i pop my glogs,today i sat at the computer and drafted several letters,ie,to my UK pensions office,the British embassy BKK,and several others ,informing them of my death.
All this to save my girlfriend the worry and hassel,once im gone.
BUT , what a strange feeling,doing a letter ready for when im already dead.Anyone else had any pleasant thoughts like this,regarding their demise. :(
Do you have a Thai will?Within the will you can designate and executor to do these things,that person can be a recipient also.Without a will,your GF might have a tough go,as she would have no rights to your estate and would have no say upon your death.

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Post by FrazeeDK » August 19, 2011, 6:56 pm

I would also suggest checking your home country's embassy website and ensure that any items/information on death notification of that country's citizen are all in order. Once you pass on, if all the appropriate items and information are in a clearly marked folder or envelope it will make it far easier for your wife/partner/signficant other to properly notify your embassy and any other next of kin you may have back in your home country.. If a will is part of the picture that's all well and good, but after you die, more important is making sure the surviving person can access funds and take care of any issues related to your death...

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FrazeeDK
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Post by FrazeeDK » August 19, 2011, 7:00 pm

The U.S. Embassy Bangkok website here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/de ... tizen.html
lists basic information and gives tips on what to do after the death of a U.S. citizen.

Death is a difficult experience for one's family and friends no matter where it takes place. When death occurs overseas the experience can be even harder, especially if the procedures involved are not clearly understood. American

American Citizen Services (ACS) is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of an American Citizen in Thailand. Our services include:

Finding and notifying the Next-of-Kin of the deceased
Acting as a liaison with Thai police, hospital and mortuary authorities
Arranging for the disposition and repatriation of remains
Coordinating administrative and financial requirements
Assisting in the collection and return of personal effects to Next-of-Kin
Issuing a "Report of Death of American Citizen Abroad".
Notification of Next-of-Kin

The Thai authorities inform the Embassy upon the death of an American Citizen anywhere in Thailand. We then find the Next-of-Kin of the deceased and contact that person as soon as possible. There are several important things that the Next-of-Kin must do in conjunction with the ACS office. These include:

Returning a signed and notarized "Affidavit of Next-of-Kin"
Choosing method of disposition of remains
Arranging payment of mortuary and related expenses in Thailand
Arranging return of any personal possessions of the deceased
Affidavit of Next-of-Kin and Letter of Instruction

To act on the family's behalf, the Embassy must have a signed, notarized copy of a document called an “Affidavit of Next-of-Kin.” This form is critical because it shows us who is entitled to make the decisions regarding the deceased. Families should first fax or scan and email us a completed copy, and then mail the original.

Next-of-Kin are established in the following order:
1. Spouse
2. Children
3. Parents
4. Siblings
5. Grandparents

Additionally, Next-of-Kin should fill out and sign a "Letter of Instruction" and fax or scan and email us a copy. This letter will tell us exactly how to handle the deceased's body. You can find blank copies of the affidavit here. Our fax number is 011-66-2-205-4103 (02-205-4103 from inside of Thailand). Our email is acsbkk@state.gov

Disposition and Repatriation of Remains

When an American Citizen dies in Thailand, the body is usually preserved until an autopsy can be performed and instructions are received from us or the Next-of-Kin regarding disposition of remains. There are normally two options regarding the disposition of remains:

Cremation in Thailand and shipment for internment in the U.S. or other location
Embalming in Thailand and shipment to U.S. or other location for internment or burial
We work with a funeral home here in Bangkok to ensure that the wishes of the Next-of-Kin are carried out as quickly and professionally as possible. HOWEVER, IN MOST CASES EMBALMING AND MORTUARY SERVICES IN THAILAND FALL FAR SHORT OF THE STANDARD EXPECTED IN THE UNITED STATES. A FUNERAL DIRECTOR IN THE U.S. SHOULD BE CONSULTED TO DETERMINE THE ADVISABILITY OF VIEWING THE REMAINS AND OF CONDUCTING AN OPEN CASKET FUNERAL.

Autopsies

Autopsies are normally performed if the deceased has died outside of a hospital or if the cause of death cannot be determined. Autopsies are performed within twenty-fours after the Thai forensic authorities receive the remains. Full autopsy reports are not available for up to three months after the completion of the examination. Autopsies are normally performed if the deceased has died outside of a hospital or if the cause of death cannot be determined. If an autopsy is not required by Thai authorities, it can often be conducted at the request and expense of the next-of-kin. Autopsies are performed within twenty-fours after the Thai forensic authorities receive the remains. Please note that full autopsy results are not available for up to three months after the completion of the examination, and that the autopsy results will likely fall far short of the standard expected in the United States.

Timing

Because of many factors, it is best not to make unchangeable plans and dates for funeral ceremonies in the United States until we can provide a firm timetable for return of remains. It takes time to perform an autopsy, to embalm or cremate the body, to prepare remains for shipment, and to prepare all the necessary documents.

Normally, it will be at least 7 to 10 days from the date of death to arrival of remains in the United States, longer if the remains are to be cremated and mailed to the U.S.

Financial Arrangements

The deceased's family or legal representative must pay all funeral home expenses and shipping costs of the remains and any personal effects. Families without a personal representative present in Thailand normally set up what is called an Overseas Citizens Services Trust with the Department of State. We use the money in this account to pay expenses on behalf of the deceased. We can coordinate all aspects of mortuary services under this arrangement.

Costs listed below are estimates, based on deaths with no unusual circumstances and should be considered for guidance purposes only.

To have remains returned to the U.S. for burial, the cost for embalming and air shipment is approximately $5000.
The cost for cremation and air shipment of ashes is approximately $1500.

By law, the Department of State cannot carry out instructions on the disposition of the remains until we have received the required funds. There are several methods for sending money to the Department of State to set up an Overseas Citizens Services Trust. For instructions on how to do this, please click here.

There will normally be an interval of at least seven days between receipt of funds and shipment of the remains.

After all the mortuary and shipping expenses have been received and paid, we will conduct an itemized accounting of final costs and refund any balance in the trust by a United States Treasury check.

Return of Personal Effects

The Embassy can, in most circumstances, take charge of personal effects and possessions of the deceased if instructed to do so by the Next-of-Kin. This may not be necessary if the deceased has a friend or family member present in Thailand at the time of death.

We will conduct a thorough inventory of any personal effects and send a copy to the Next-of Kin. We can send the family any items they wish to have returned at their expense through the United States Postal Service at the Embassy. Most families decide to donate items of little sentimental or monetary value (clothing, suitcases, kitchenware, etc.) to a local charity in order to avoid the large expense involved in returning these items to the United States. The Embassy will gladly arrange for this charitable donation on the family's behalf.

In cases where the estate of the deceased exceeds $1000, the Embassy will require more detailed legal documents, such as Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration, prior to releasing money or effects to the Next-of-Kin.

Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad

The “Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad” is an official report, in English, that provides the essential facts concerning the death of a U.S. Citizen. It functions in much the same way as a death certificate issued in the United States and can be used to settle bank accounts, insurance policies and other estate matters.

This report can be issued only after the Thai authorities complete their documentation of the death and takes several weeks to be completed. A minimum of 20 certified copies will be sent to the Next-of-Kin. Families may order additional certified copies from the Department of State for a fee.

Families will thus receive up to three sets of documents from the Embassy:

20 copies of "Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad" (free)
An original Thai Death Certificate with a translated English copy (at the family's expense)
An original Autopsy Report with a translated English copy (at the family's expense, takes 3-4 months to complete)
For more information you may also refer to the following Department of State website: http://www.travel.state.gov/law/family_issues
/death/death_600.html

Contact Us
American Citizen Services (ACS)
U.S. Embassy Bangkok
95 Wireless Road, Bangkok 10330, Thailand
Telephone from outside of Thailand: (66) 2-205-4049
Telephone from inside of Thailand: 02-205-4049
Fax: (66) 2-205-4103
E-mail: acsbkk@state.gov
Home Page: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html

U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai
387 Witchayanond Road, Chiang Mai 50300, Thailand
Tel: (66) 53-107-700 ext. 7704 or 7738
Fax: (66) 53-252-633
E-mail: acschn@state.gov
Home Page: http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service.html

richard-px1
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Post by richard-px1 » August 19, 2011, 7:26 pm

Yea thanks you two chaps for the very helpfull information,a lot of it i will act upon.
The fact that i was sitting here drafting a letter,telling of my death,date of my death,and the cause of death,just left me feeling a bit strange.I dare say it was a good thing to do,to give me a kick up the Jacksi,and make me enjoy my time left

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Post by merchant seaman » August 19, 2011, 8:17 pm

After you die do yoully care??? Some people do. Me, I just try to enjoy everthing while I'm alive. Damn them all after I die. When I die I am going to heaven, I've already spent my time in hell.

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Post by Nick@AUA » August 19, 2011, 8:22 pm

merchant seaman wrote:After you die do yoully care??? Some people do. Me, I just try to enjoy everthing while I'm alive. Damn them all after I die. When I die I am going to heaven, I've already spent my time in hell.
Well said spunky. I totally agree.

I also think that preparing for your own departure is fine. Just do the paperwork, make sure you have a 'porn buddy', and you'll be fine.

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Post by stattointhailand » August 19, 2011, 8:59 pm

Nick@AUA wrote:
merchant seaman wrote:After you die do yoully care??? Some people do. Me, I just try to enjoy everthing while I'm alive. Damn them all after I die. When I die I am going to heaven, I've already spent my time in hell.
Well said spunky. I totally agree.

I also think that preparing for your own departure is fine. Just do the paperwork, make sure you have a 'porn buddy', and you'll be fine.
errrr sorry Nick, 'porn buddy' is that someone to delete any references on your computer after you depart?

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nkstan
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Post by nkstan » August 19, 2011, 9:19 pm

If you are not married or of statutory heirs living in Thailand and you die w/o a will,your heirs from Falangland will incur high costs settling your estate here.If you die w/o heirs and a will here and you are not in close association with your statutory heirs in Falangland,there is a good chance that what ever money you have on deposit in a Thai bank,will become property of the bank! :shock:

Personally,I feel a strong responsibilty to my daughters future,so spending wastefully doesn't fit my thinking.But ,each to his own !You earned and have the right to do with it as you wish!

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Post by parrot » August 19, 2011, 9:23 pm

"Damn them all after I die."

Fine and dandy if you have no wife/kids/friends. But over the years, I've seen a few widows left in the dust because their hubbies didn't take the time to prepare any sort of paperwork, a will, a list of passwords, a list of bank accounts, etc. The worst case was the hubby who led everyone to believe that he had it all together, including loads of cash set aside, but when he died, he had zilch, nada......ehr, except for his wife.

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Post by JimboPSM » August 19, 2011, 10:15 pm

To try and avoid international border problems and hopefully keep things as simple as possible, I have arranged for the disposition of my assets according to their location.

In broad terms:
• All my UK assets are to be disposed of in the UK.
• All my Thailand assets are to be disposed of in Thailand.

What I have done suits my circumstances and may well not be suitable for others.

At the end of the day, whether one makes any arrangements or not depends on the individual, their circumstances and the degree they feel any responsibility to those they leave behind.

However, if one does not make arrangements there is a good prospect that your assets may end up with some of those you may least want to benefit e.g. lawyers and governments.

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Post by Nick@AUA » August 20, 2011, 2:39 am

stattointhailand wrote:
Nick@AUA wrote:
merchant seaman wrote:After you die do yoully care??? Some people do. Me, I just try to enjoy everthing while I'm alive. Damn them all after I die. When I die I am going to heaven, I've already spent my time in hell.
Well said spunky. I totally agree.

I also think that preparing for your own departure is fine. Just do the paperwork, make sure you have a 'porn buddy', and you'll be fine.
errrr sorry Nick, 'porn buddy' is that someone to delete any references on your computer after you depart?
Yes my friend. In legal terms it is called a 'Clitary Executor'

Porn buddy/Clitary Executor

A Clitary Executor. A single fellows best friend who, in the event of his untimely death, is charged with the important task of removing and disposing of his stash of grumble before his grieving parents arrive to search through his effects for touching momentoes, and things to put on eBay.
If former Poet Laureate and lifelong jazz enthusiast Philip Larkin's porn buddy had managed to carry out the Hull Universty Librarians final wishes, it is estimated that the resulting bonfire of hardcore "art pamphlets" would have been visible from the Moon.

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Post by wazza » August 20, 2011, 3:58 am

richard-px1 wrote:.Anyone else had any pleasant thoughts like this,regarding their demise. :(

Yeah its called a will !

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Post by trubrit » August 20, 2011, 7:34 am

I've got this dieing thing sussed. As one who is possibly nearest to the final curtain I have spent everything already . Why leave it for others? My family will get a good house , car and bits of jewelry things. Enough cash to burn me, that's it.'Might have to borrow from the wife for my visa next year though, if I'm still around . :lol:
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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Post by Bandung_Dero » August 20, 2011, 8:13 am

Wills, such a simple thing to do, doesn't have to be technical or even professionaly done so long as it clearly states your wishes and your signature is witnessed correctly. I have two wills, one for Thai assets and the other for my home country, both x-referenced to each other. I have an executor in both countries, these guys know each other, have copies of both wills and fully understand my wishes.

We have a situation here in Ban Dung where a Farang past away 4 years ago, Dean from the 5 Bell Bar, without a will and HAS cash in the local Kasikornbank, the bank will not even give the cash to his father let alone his long time Thai girl friend.

NO WILL and the banks are the big winners here in Thailand! Be warned.

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Post by marshbags » August 20, 2011, 8:31 am

A very important subject to post on, well done richard =D>

Does anyone know of a service similar to the American one mentioned please American Citizen Services

If not is there somewhere that U.K. dependants can turn to when we die.

My wife is totally confused when I try to explain things to her and then there is the problem if completing relevant forms to claim any entitlements, including U.K. governmental ones.

While her English is reasonable she gets completely confused when asked to even read information.

Has anyone had any recent experiences on this relating to someone who has passed on, maybe assisted their loved ones in some way.

Thank you in advance.

marshbags

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Post by Ray.Charles » August 23, 2011, 10:54 pm

Each of my financial accounts in the U.S. has a designated beneficiary; it is easily done by contacting the financial institutions: banks, mutual funds, etc. When my death is established, these institutions will give control of the accounts to the beneficiary. In the absence of a Will, my U.S. based assets would be inherited by my only child; nevertheless to be explicit about the inheritance, I will also prepare a Will to that effect.
For the U.S accounts, I am assuming that my death will be established by producing a letter from the American Consular Service. I am also assuming that a death certificate from a reputable hospital would be required by the Consular Service to issue such a letter. Therefore, if I die outside of a hospital I have instructed that my body be taken to one to obtain such a certificate before my body is cremated.
I have a Will made by a Thai law firm covering my Thai assets: bank accounts and a pick-up. After my death, my lady will contact a lawyer for help in getting control of these assets.
In summary, the beneficiary of my U.S. accounts, my only child, would be able to take over my U.S. accounts on producing the letter from the American Consular Service, and my lady in Thailand would gain control over my Thai assets on producing the Will and the death certificate.
I am leaving with my lady two draft e-mails to be sent by her after my death, one to my daughter and one to another relative. I would also like to leave with her a few contacts, local American residents, who she can approach for advice in dealing with the consular service.
I will also leave behind a box of documents, financial and personal, to be handed over to my daughter after my death.
Finally, I have also prepared a “Living Will’ that states that my life should not be extended by artificial means and/or medications if it would seem very unlikely that I would recover to resume normal life.
What did I miss?

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Post by wazza » August 24, 2011, 12:34 am

My name lol .

Well done . Accountability in these issues is well defined. .

Living will and right to die issues in thailand is their clear law on this. Or should ur lawyer be a party to the decision process.

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Post by parrot » August 24, 2011, 9:43 am

I have a folder in my gmail account for our daughter. She has half of my password, an older brother has another piece of the password. In that folder are probably 10 or so notes/emails detailing all our daughter needs to know to settle bank accounts, who to contact to help sell our home/land, important phone numbers, where important papers are, and where my 50 pounds of gold bricks are interred (joke), etc. Someone wrote recently the odd feeling when writing those type of emails (I'm alive now, but when you read this email, I won't be).

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Post by Ray.Charles » August 24, 2011, 2:53 pm

In my 'Living Will', the decision to 'pull the trigger' would rest with two individuals who would not directly benefit from my exit.

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