Being ripped off time and time again

[Philrjones]

What is it with Thai people that they can't seem to help ripping you off? (All figures below are baht).

Since coming here I've been ripped off 18,000 when bringing my dog from Australia (bogus customs tax I found out), lent 20,000 to one Thai and 10,000 to another (both friends of mine and TW's) only to never see the money again, and the latest is the landlord is keeping the bond of 30,000. The reason apparently for the last one is that we haven't stayed the full year. That's despite us already staying 1.5 years in the place. I did lend another 10k to another friend of the TW - we did get it back, but it took forever and constant reminders. Won't be doing that again!

Re the landlord: Now I don't expect all the 30k back as we have to pay half a months rent plus electricity bills and pay for a new sofa (old one got wrecked - not through misuse, but because it's a piece of cr*p). So landlord owes me about 18k.

That's a total of 66k baht so far. For a comparison, when I lent 30k to a fellow Aussie who was really stuck, I got it back within the promised timeframe. When I lent 5k to another mate, I got it back within a week.

66,000 at the current exchange rate is around $2,270 (Aussie). Damn I'm going to be kee neow from now on!

Anyone else had a similar experience, or am I daft for trying help people and trusting them? Well, probably daft I know. However I won't be lending to any Thai's as much a 1 baht from now on.

Oh yes - something else - never had a house broken into and things stolen anywhere else except here in Thailand, so I guess you can add the cost of everything stolen to the total. Mind you, I know that can happen anywhere - it's just that for me, it's happened while living here.

I can't remember but there are numerous other incidences that I can't really remember - trying to charge me 100 for a haircut, but the sign says 60 (I can read enough!), air for tyres (5 times more than the usual few baht), etc etc.

On the flip side, I've met some of the nicest people here who are Thais. Go figure!

Sorry folks - I'm just damn angry at the landlord thing.

Cheers
Phil

[dougness]

speak softly and carry a big stick,lol.

[pompui]

Phil,very usual your experiences,just remember never lend ever again.I did lend many years ago,to TW sister.thinking it being within close family to get my money back even got her to sign a proper loan agreemnet form to no avail.
Thais seems to think better to lose a friendship than repay a loan.
Maybe a negative comment but since the TW is not lending the money,maybe the TW/TG is actively making you lend to friends,maybe gives her better face value with these people,found out too many what I thought were friends,being fake than real.
Moral of story here is that if they have land to offer then use that within a loan agreement,thais do it between themselves but I think for us farang,best to avoid.
Re Landlords,not used one yet but hope you get some constructive replies back from fellow forumites,what is exactly put in these rental agreement forms that are signed bewteen farang and landlord,replacement of broken items etc,fixed rent no wording to say it is variable at landlord discretion etc.

[bumper]

Phil the time to worry about contracts is before yuo sign them to after. Thai conmtracts will only protect the Thai not you. A lesson I learned the hardway for a lot more money then your talking about.

If your going to enter into a contract find a lawyer that you fill comfortable with play the d fees up front to protect yuorself. Do not rely on yuor wife or the thai. What is written in that contract is what the courts will honor, not what is said to you by anyone. I All contracts must be written in Thai or the courts will not recognize them.

Recently had to sign one for the entatinemnt at a our party only 8K, I had penalty written into the contract in Thai befoe giving the lady a a deposit. Now here is where it gets interesting my Thai teacher would not put in the contract. I will never sign a oneway contract in Thailand.

I had my lesson you have had yours now, you got off much cheaper then I did. Lesson learned for me hope it's the same for you.

Remember one thing you are responsible for your life here, you can only be a victim if you allow it to happen.

Best thing you can do now is see if if there is a loop hole, if the contract doea no comply with Thai law then it's not a valid contract that's about it. You can get angry nothing wrong with that. But learn and move on. We have all had to do it that in some way.

[laphanphon]

Anyone else had a similar experience, or am I daft for trying help people and trusting them?

if i didn't personally know them, sorry, nothing for you. not even many i know in states would i lend money too, but the ones i would, i would be repaid promptly. as soon as a thai gets a farang, all the family friends and village bums come looking for money, in some families. first village i lived in, everyone wanted to borrow money from me, i just laughed. they stopped asking.

your mates paid you back promptly, because you knew them. but don't take it personal, thais don't pay thais back either.

[dougness]

someone in my wifes family paid a big price for trusting a life long friend with hundreds of thosands of baht.The lady also owed money officially and went to jail rather than pay up.If Thai can't trust a life long childhood friend,then we can't.I know some Thais have a "shareclub" where they put a small amount of money together and run a draw amoungst themselves.If the amount is small no problem,but what if its big?

[Philrjones]

Yes, lesson learned and with that, I feel I've finally completed my education at WBU! (Take note newbies to the WBU). Many will recognise the following:

Started out some years ago in year 1 with "hello hansum man, where you from?". Then I had all the classics such as:

"I just start work here at bar for 1 week, I good girl really"
"I wait you come back"
"I not have bf"
"I never have falang bf before"
"I not have children"

As I progressed through the uni, I had:

"my mobile stop work, that why you can no ring me" or "I go village and not have signal for mobile" or "I lose mobile"

Then

"I need new mobile"
"mama sick in hospital and need money"

I knew things were progressing well when I had the:

"darling, this our new car I buy for we. You have to pay 10,000 baht every month. I not tell you then is good surplise for you.............. Why you angly? You kee neeow and cheap charlie or what? Oh, darling I need money for petrol. And insurance. And service. And new shoe because can not drive in shoe I have".

"Why you no buy me gold? You want I look poor?"........"Oh, I sell gold you buy me for pay for something because not have enough money. You can send some more? I solly darling, you want to buy some more gold for me?"

"I have friend and she have falang bf - he give she 20,000 baht every month. Can do or what?"

"My brother need money for university"
"My uncle need to buy chicken"
"Papa need help about buy new fridge"
"I want to open shop about beauty"

Hey do I get a certificate for graduating or what???!!!!

Perhaps we should have a funny thread about the sayings you come across here - damn frustrating when you're in the middle of it, but very funny a while later when you look back.

I've known some girls here have 4 or so falangs on the go, all coming at different times of the year, all sending money every month. I've seen fresh faced falangs fall in love at the first trip to their first bar in 3 minutes flat (not me I hasten to add!). The online love links sites where the photo is 10 years old and 15kgs lighter. Or photoshopped. Or both.

Culminating in the rip off. Actually that's an ongoing process starting at day 1 and never ending.

Ah, if only I could go back knowing what I know now!!

Cheers
Phil

[Galee]

thais don't pay thais back either.

Spot on there LA. My wife lent money to her family, (not parents, they are decent people), loan never repaid. When I came onto the scene more requests for money. You can guess what here reply was.
The latest is, you have falang husband, you not need rubber trees, can you sign land over to me. I've told her not to even thing about it. I'm not going to be here for ever and she'll need every asset she has to maintain a comfortable lifestyle.

[Aardvark]

You can, only problem is your a little older and maybe not quite so hansum

[dougness]

"you want my mama to work in rice paddy and my niece to work in gogo bar?",lol.

[Zidane]

As a farang I'd say never ever lend money to Thais because its the last time you will ever see it.
My wife has lent money to so called friends and its never been repaid.....ultimately its me who has to pay for the debt.
As pompui says Thais seem prepared to lose a friendship rather than pay up.
But Thais also cheat Thais.....we know of a couple who were asked to guarantee a friend for over 1,000,000 baht for a bank loan.....he didnt comply with the repayments and now the guarantors are liable to the bank.

[jai yen yen]

I think the bottom line is don't give if you want or need it back. I may give if I want to but I don't expect it back. No problems that way. If money ever becomes a problem with Thai wife or friends I would move on right away. Don't ever feel pressured to do anything you are not comfortable with. You are not alone I learned the hard way as well.

[jetdoc]

I firmly believe we deserve all the abuse we are willing to tolerate. One of my rules here is - I don't loan money, (banks do that) I give money and the only one I give money to is my wife and children. If you're getting ripped off time after time, work on your learning curve as it must be a bit flat.

[arjay]

Phil, I don't ever lend. (If you want to give, then OK give, but don't lend)

That said GF did lend an Aunt once, in the knowledge that she wouldn't get it back, but wouldn't/couldn't then be asked again! That worked!

I have in the past said to GF's or proposed GF's, things like:

I don't have big money, poor man small pension.

I give all my money to GF before, she needed new phone, had sick buffalo, sick Mama etc.

You want house/baby/20K per month/big gold, or whatever, - better you look for new BF, - one who can give you all of the above. I can't. I can look after you, be jingjai with you, pay you small money, but every month.

You want big gold or food to eat and somewhere to live, which is more important.

You wear big gold many people think you low class trying to look high class!

[pompui]

You wear big gold many people think you low class trying to look high class!

Used to see a few of these on my 90 day runs/yearly visa renewals at Nong Khai,a tw/tg wearing all her gold.Is it to look high class as you say or make the hard earning NK immigartion staff on low salaries feel jealous or they wear it in case their farang is on an overstay or does not meet the income criteria and therefore can offload the tong to the immigration!

[mortiboy]

Phil Jones comment......Yes, lesson learned and with that, I feel I've finally completed my education at WBU! (Take note newbies to the WBU). Many will recognise the following: ect...

Phil, you got it all in a nutshell. All so true!

[Philrjones]

Yep, I've learned the lessons well!

Flat learning curve, mate being here it's been more like Mt Everest!! Haha, but I know what you mean. Yes, I'll stick to banks lending money and if I give any, it'll be with no expectation of getting it back. Not that I'll be doing that in a hurry!

Still, not getting back the bond from the landlord is a bummer and something I didn't expect. However, as she is going to take care of the electricity bill from the said bond at the end of the month, guess who has all the aircon running flat out?? (4 units and one of them is a big buggar and chews through elec like you wouldn't believe). And I've stopped cleaning the place too. I mean - why should I bother? In Australia you get a place looking like you can eat of the floor otherwise you don't get a bond back. Here it's a different ball game. Hate leaving a place and not doing my best to clean etc, but I'm afraid I'm not doing that this time.

Cheers
Phil

[jimboLV]

Amen brothers. I lent 30,000 Baht to brother in law last November, promise to pay it back at Songkran since he raises flowers and makes his big money then. Well, naturally Songkran came and went and what do you know? All of a sudden his truck broke down, sales were low, etc. so "he have no money". Wife totally unconcerned. So, having now passed the WBU 202 course in "lending money to relatives" I put my foot down, no more money to relatives, loan or gift. It worked, because soon after Mother wanted 2,000 to buy another cow, wife told her no without even asking me, told me after the fact. So it was an expensive lesson, but will save me money in the long run. I think it is a general precept that when a falang loans money to a Thai, it is looked upon as a gift, never to be returned.

[wokkawombat]

Best result I have heard was when Somchai 1 wanted 20k for a life or death reason, the money was loaned. Somchai 2 rolls up needing 20 K and was told sure, when Somchai 1 pays 20K back then it is for you. Appently the same 20k has been in circulation for a few years now as everyone in the family puts pressure on the current owner of the 20k to pay up.

John

[wazza]

My previous landlord tried to keep the bond and 1 months rent as i left before the 6 months were up. Told her she can keep the 1 months rent and she will get the keys at the end of the contract. she had soemone willing to move in whilst i still paid for that month.

I left early as she said i was responsible for all mainatainence inc broken shower units - electrics shat it self, air con - shat it self etc , lights stopped working electrics shat themselve. etc

When it came to the bond money , she refused, so i printed off the pictures of the house, and all the various units showing the state they were in, Went to the Police station and did a report, drove back to her and presented the report to her with the picts and said the Police will be here in 30 mins if they are needed.

Standoff at the residence , all sorts of calls made to her daughter in BKK who spoke excellent Eng, told her, her mother has a police report against her , and i want the bond money within 30m mins.

Bottom line is I took the landlord to the ATM , got my money and left her standing at the ATM , for her to get back alone.

Last time I looked at the house in Sin Chai Thani, it was still vacant, 1 expat contacted me a year ago about any adverse comments, told him the story and saved him a headache no doubt.