Are farangs inviting dislike and anger ?

[Peterplay]

I read “Fun at the traffic lights” from Galee and I surely absolutely understand him, there are many situations where I could **** the stupid drivers.

However…

I know that Thai drivers are understanding the fact that – in this case - the busses want to stay in one line even if they jump the lights and generally they, as well, dislike bad behavior, but Thais dislike even more when you take an action like that.
What I am afraid of is the eventual backlash, more and more I get the feeling that our Farang behavior (in general, be it when driving, asking for guarantee, service etc) is not appreciated by the Thais. In our view we are right, but many Thais think we behave weirdly and appallingly.
I got in the last two years the feeling that farangs are less and less liked and that Thais take a more condescending and sometimes angry attitude towards us.
Does any of you have that feeling as well ?
The actions of Galee may be applauded by ‘us’ but in the end it’ll add to the dislike of farangs here.
I used to try the same tricks as Galee does, but stopped, we are just making ourselves impopular and ridiculous.

Anyway that’s how I feel right now.

[fatbas***d]

My feeling as well Peter, many years ago used to indulge in a bit of very mild road rage as well, nowdays I just let it all slide by after all, you are not going to change their more inane driving habits, so don't let it stress you out.
I know a Fanang living in my vicinity, who with any real or perceived transgression by another driver , flies into screaming, red faced, spittle flying fit of anger.
Its pointless as he doesn't speak any Thai at all, so all they think, whats this maniac on about ?

[LoveDaBlues]

I agree fully with this post. What's a few extra seconds of your time, maybe every few days when driving. We all know the Thai have a few strange driving 'habits' that are considered the norm. Why not just go with the flow; besides your blood pressure will thank you for it. Screaming, cutting off Thai drivers, etc. does nothing to help the Falang image.

[Galee]

All I'll say is, if your not the one breaking the law, don't be a whimp, grow a backbone and stand up for yourself. Up to you if you want to be submissive. The more submissive you are the more you will be taken advantage of.

[LoveDaBlues]

I choose to follow the local norms when driving instead of trying to be 'Mr. Correct Driver' and playing traffic games.

It all comes down to how one perceives things. You view following local norms as "submissive"; I don't.

So, you do things your way and I'll do things my way. That way you're happy and I'm happy. Isn't it great when folks can take two different courses of action in a situation and both be happy? =D>

[arjay]

It is a difficult one. The way I see it is that Thais have their "practices" that they consider acceptable, whereas with our more disciplined driving training and practices we don't consider such things acceptable. For example, when motorbikes turn right they often drive along their nearside of the road, against the oncoming flow of traffic, until such time as a suitable gap in the traffic appears and they can cross to the correct side. To us that is wrong. To them it's their way of doing things and that's what they do.

I used to get indignant about such things, but now I take the view that that is how they drive, it's "acceptable" to them, and it's their country, so I take a "laissez-faire" approach and don't get into a lather.

That said both they and I know that going through a red light is wrong. Though I would still avoid confronting people or causing a situation.

Well Ok then, I may sometimes close up on the car in front to avoid a lane hopper nipping in between.

[jai yen yen]

As they say, When in Rome. This is Thailand, a different country and we are here because we like it the way it is, other wise we would leave. Some things I don't agree with but you have to look at the big picture and accept we are guests here and I personally feel we should try to accept things and go with the flow. Besides we are not going to change anything. Being from Canada one of the most obliging countries in the world it is a bit of a learning curve when you live or visit other countries and realize things are not the same as home. Smile, relax and enjoy. You could be shoveling snow or hiding from the cold rain and putting up with more rules and political correctness than you could swallow.

[jackspratt]

To use RJ's example of the motorbike corner-cutter (remembering it is not only motorbikes who do this), I quickly see 2 issues:

1. Because it is "accepted", though clearly against the road laws of Thailand, what is the likely outcome if you hit the bugger while you are driving legally in you car/pickup?

2. It can also lead to congestion and dangerous situations where a car is forced to stop to avoid hitting the corner-cutter, or to allow them to proceed because they are otherwise blocking the corner (particularly if you are trying to turn left).

[nkstan]

Ditto for me to arjays post!I usually try to block the M/B from getting to the inside when waiting to turn right,as they cross it front of you during the turn!Otherwise,I drive expecting these ''norms of Thai driving'',legal or not,trying to be defensive as much as possible.
If I don't have someone right on my bumper.I usually will stop for pedestrians to cross or slow to let drivers merge in front of me from sidestreets,which sometimes seems to upset many Thais,but I don't do it with that in mind as it makes me feel good to be courteous and even get a friendly smile from the pedestrians and merging drivers,sometimes

I drive very slow through city streets,but fast on the wide 4+ lane highways.I find the Thai drivers,except many bus drivers,to be more courteous about moving over for me to pass through in the fast lane,than in the USA! =D>

I don't do anything towards Thais that isintended to provoke anger !

[Shado]

Like most, or at least many, of the foreigners here, I've been in all kinds of traffic in a lot of different countries. One big difference here, compared to say, Hanoi, Tehran, Hong Kong, Paris, Chicago, New York, Caracas, Sao Paulo, Cape Town, etc., etc., etc., is the honking of HORNS! I really do like the local custom of laying off the horn. Minimal beep, beep, beeping and long blasts from irritated drivers.

It is just a small thing I guess, but to me, it is a pleasant departure from cacophony of blaring noise found in most other countries. I think it helps me to stay a little calmer while driving here.

[EssexGaz]

This is Thailand, a different country and we are here because we like it the way it is, other wise we would leave.

I wouldn't say that I like everything about Thailand (far from it) and I wouldn't leave just because I didnt like a few things here

Its inevitable that Thailand will become westernised in the next 20 years or so whether you like it or not

I feel like that when I do complain about bad driving or stand up for myself when someone does something wrong to me that I am doing the thai people a favour and teaching them how they should be acting if they want to become a more civilised culture.

Hiding you head in the sand doesnt do anyone any good

The thai people will always resent the falang what ever we do

[thrilled]

Gentlemen,none of us are from thailand.And we all know that many thais aren't good drivers.But we all have to get along.So what I do when one of them does something that I don't believe is right,I just take A deep breath and slowly count to 10 and hope i've cooled off somewhat after.

[LoongLee]

I have to admit that I'm a stickler for driving "rules" but I've also learned over the years that being right doesn't mean a hill of beans when in another country (usually) and decided it's just not worth it to demand my "right of way" or to get upset. The benefits of demonstrating a calm, cool, undemanding attitude to all Thais when in public, while smiling and talking very quietly, dressing properly (maybe even "overdressing") for the occasion, and displaying confidence reap huge rewards. I try to go out of my way to show politeness and deferential treatment, but in a way that would indicate I am very aware of proper social etiquite on both sides. I believe that our actions out in public or in a government office can drive the interaction to our benefit. If you are more polite and "classier" than the Thai opposite you, they have to respond in kind or lose face,,,,,, winning you points. Every interaction is in some way a negotiation,,,, make it your business to learn how to put yourselves in the winning position.

I've learned it just doesn't do any good to try and change the Thais in Thailand,,,,,,, I make my points by showing the Thais that visit us in the US how other people live, never telling them what I'm doing but still demonstrating by action how people are able to interact and get along. This may only work here in Virginia,,, heh, heh. Our visitors have even remarked afterwards about how people treat each other in traffic, standing in line, at government offices, restaurants, etc. It's been a real eye opener for some of them, even more so after they travel to europe and also see it there. Some have even said they were disappointed in how Thais act in Thailand. Will that result in the Thai public acting different?,,,,,,,, no. That influence will have to come from someone or a group held in very high esteem in Thai society and will take generations.

That's my 2 satang worth,,,,,,,, cheers,,, LL

[trubrit]

A brilliant assessment LL, with which I entirely agree .It does however reveal two sides to the equation. The first being the farang who doesn't really do himself any favours by dressing and acting in public in a manner which causes detrimental comment from locals. However they incorrectly refer to them as cheap Charlies which isn't always the case . They often have more disposable income than I have but just simply lack the good manners to behave in public. Maybe if they could understand what the Thai is saying about them they would change . However I doubt it , its more likely to bring on a further display of loud mouthed comment .This I have often noticed in the immigration office. The last place you would think. An observer can almost tell who is going to sail through and who is going to get problems. The officers are initially amused and joke with each other about the applicant and you just know 'He ain't getting no visa "The louder his voice gets, the more determined they get .This isn't always confined to the guy, sometimes the TW joins in .
A similar behaviour can be observed in Central. Has anyone seen the two guys that seem to be in there every day? Bill & Ben I call them,after the flower pot men on kids TV .They parade round like visiting dignitaries smiling at all the girls seeing who they can pull .Well if they turned round they would have seen the ice cream girl and her mate sticking up two fingers and having a good laugh .Come on guys . Fat and over 50 just isn't attractive on its own anymore. The ladies have matured and are looking for a better class of male they they can proudly introduce to their friends as " My Farang"

The second point you make LL about Thai observing the difference abroad. I was walking with my TW in a small village , Datchet, which is near Windsor Castle when a car pulled up alongside , waiting at the level X ing. In the back was the Queen who seeing my wife looking , gave her a wave . My wife nearly fainted. Apparently that would not have happened back home but the train would have been stopped, not the Queen .A point that was vividly brought home to me yesterday while travelling to Udon. All along the road from Nong Wau Sor to town, there were police and cars at every junction, must have been well over 200 men. Then eventually a convoy of 22 vehicles went flying by leaving traffic congestion in its wake .This must have happened on the return leg as well as the school bus was nearly an hour late .As you said " A long way to go yet"

[Farang1]

It would probably take a major crackdown (there's that favorite government word) of enforcement of the traffic laws and a massive education effort to get the Thais to learn to more safely. Even with that, probably take a couple generations.

On the flip side, if the real world started enforcing the laws as stringent as Thailand does now, the drivers would revert the apparent "chaotic" driving we see here in the LOS within months.

Personally, I look at it this way, they have been driving like that long before I got here and will be driving like that long after I am gone. As stated in other post, just go with the flow. TIT

[JimboPSM]

LL & TB, excellent posts

Very reminiscent of the early days of Udon Map when virtually every post was informative, helpful and friendly and actually about Udon and/or matters related to living there (occasionally enhanced by actual personal experiences not ill-informed prejudices).

Apologies for going off-topic, but the above posts made me feel nostalgic for the good old days on UM.

[trubrit]

LL & TB, excellent posts



Apologies for going off-topic, but the above posts made me feel nostalgic for the good old days on UM.

Now that could be a whole new topic Jimbo. But you must admit it has got a lot better since the major exodus last year . :-"

[Aardvark]

Oh TB, really

[Galee]

One small point. How do you differentiate between a Thai driving badly and a farang driving badly, when in 99% of the time the windows are so heavily tinted you cannot see who the driver is.

[trubrit]

One small point. How do you differentiate between a Thai driving badly and a farang driving badly, when in 99% of the time the windows are so heavily tinted you cannot see who the driver is.

Well although you can't see the driver you can normally tell by the toy hanging on the exhaust .