Teaching as a profession?

Post by **trubrit** » January 11, 2012, 10:23 am

Several remarks on this forum and my own experiences have led me to believe that a lot of so called teachers are in the job, not as dedicated teachers, but for the "prestige" attached to the title here in Thailand and of course the perks of being a government employee for some. Which include amongst others, free medical care for their entire family, husbands and kids, cheap loans, and the chance of an early retirement with a generous pension. To say nothing of the job for life aspect .For those in private employment the chance to extort money from the parents, over and above normal school fees, in "extra" tuition .It must be the only job I know that actually rewards failure to do the job efficiently within the normal working day, with the prospect of additional remuneration after hours.Now before I go any further let me say, this is a general impression and I realise , in fact I know , many dedicated professionals that really care about their pupils education and are as horrified as me at the standard attitude shown by some of their colleagues.Let me detail some of my own concerns, I won't name the school because I believe it is a widespread attitude that could apply to most institutions , certainly in Udon .
My son is a teenager. Like most kids of his age he prefers playing to learning, if he can get away with it, so I have to keep a tight watch on him. This year his grades have fallen away, now I want to know why. Upon investigation I noticed he has not been doing homework for the past year, at home anyway ,so looking into why I am told he does his homework at school.

Apparently the last class of the day is set aside for the kids to do the homework they have been set before going home ? Unsupervised? Now I know why all the kids have the same silly answers to the questions, they are of cause cribbing off each other.How stupid. Plus what about the lesson they should be doing in that session?
I was recently phoned by my son himself, not the teacher, that he was being bullied in the class. So I told him to complain to the teacher. No teacher he said .So straight there I went to find he had a black eye and had been taken to hospital. Well to cut the story short. A class of 30 teenage kids had been left unsupervised for an hour whilst the teacher was absent . Where was she? With other teachers working on the Xmas decorations for the party.

Now when I complain at his lack of progress I am told he needs extra tuition, for which I must pay . Who is giving the extra tuition. Why the teacher who is failing to teach him in the first place .

Sometimes I feel I am banging my head against the wall. This is one of them.

Post by **pienmash** » January 11, 2012, 10:47 am

Your experieces mirror exactly what has happened with my son TB ,,,, and i would imagine there are lots more parents who could say the same ,,, difficult to know what to do as IMO extra tuition in my sons case was the time when he did his homework or even watched dvds i presume non educational ones as well and un supervised ,,,,, i think that these extra classes serve 2 purposes ,,, a top up for teachers salaires and as a babysitting service for families where both parents work .

I channeled my sons energy into sport ie football ,, anything is better than these dam game shops and getting into gangs .

Certainly not an easy job guiding children thru the Thai education system .

Mash

Post by **wazza** » January 11, 2012, 2:35 pm

Dont worry, it happens to Thais and not just Alien's and their families.

Tried to speak to a guy in a Thai pub in Udon pub last week in english , Normal MO, he wandered over to show his mates that he can speak English.

Basically I got that he was finishing off his Masters Degree in English ! , sorry khun, but ur Uni has ripped u off big time, as your english is unable to be understood.

Post by **kumphawapi** » January 11, 2012, 3:16 pm

Another part of the system that seems designed to fail, is teaching science in English - when the students English ability is non existent.
Conversation: What homework have you got today - science.
What are you studying? - forces (shows page in English language text book for acceleration)
Me - What does speed mean? - blank look
Me - how long is one metre - blank look
Me - how long is one second - blank look

Post by **rct** » January 11, 2012, 3:38 pm

As a parent, I truly hope my children will have qualified and motivated teachers at every stage of their lives. A teacher's role is very important, and if done right, will have lasting impact.

While some of the farang "teachers" at Paramin nursery and kindergarten and not actually qualified teachers, rather a few are temporary guest workers from other backgrounds, so far so good with their system. Once my children are into elementary school however, I will be more concerned about the actual teaching qualifications of the staff, as well as anxious to see my kids' results on some standardized tests.

Sometimes I hear talk of a truly "international school" that may open in Udon. Paramin aspires to this. Time will tell on both counts. Does beg the question, which is sometimes asked of me, what would I be willing to pay for such an international school? Phuket has a few, and they do not come cheap, eg 500,000 baht per year per child is in the range. For Udon Thani, even suppose it was 250,000 baht, perhaps plenty of locals would be takers, though not sure what percent of the "mixed" kids parents would be willing to pay, or believe it was different enough to merit the extra cost. OK this is off on a tangent.

Post by **greatsnake** » January 11, 2012, 10:08 pm

I think the point that is being missed is the focus should be on learning and not teaching. With the resources available on the Internet and our educational backgrounds, there has never been a better time to be in our situation (married with children and living in a 3rd world country ).

When my son hits 12, he will have seen the last of the Thai educational system as I will homeschool him from there. As far as I'm concerned, the primary school years are only to develop social skills and Thai language skills. I'm more than happy to provide everything else.

Post by **KHONDAHM** » January 12, 2012, 2:51 am

@greatsnake - I thought the same. The reality is a bit different. Homeschooling 100% means less chance for social development (aka friends). Very important. As I recently stated on another thread, we send our daughter to public school primarily for the social development. I also do have to reluctantly admit that she is also being taught (versus saying she is learning) by a professional career teacher.

Having sent her to private schools for 2 years was a mistake and waste of money. Read NKSTAN's posts - all Bible - and I would cosign almost all of them. Foreign teachers tend to be guys just trying to remain in the Kingdom. No passion for the job or kids. During her last semester there, they spent most days watching bootleg DVDs because the foreign teacher broke up with his girlfriend just after the start of the term and decided he did not want to teach anymore. The school could not find a replacement and was sending in substitutes to babysit or pretend to teach. Some days there was no supervision at all (!) for a class of 3rd graders. For that, I paid THB 60k. It was in Pattaya, not Udon, btw.

Post by **rufus** » January 12, 2012, 9:09 am

Having read these posts and those in the other thread, I would seriously suggest you send your kids to be educated in Vientiane. They could stay there during the week and go back to Udon at the weekend.

Post by **Jing Jing** » January 12, 2012, 11:15 am

I feel for anyone that tries to educate children in Thailand. Most of the schools have to many students and lack proper supervision. Parmin holds itself as a wonderful learning environment. The building looks nice put I don't think any of the "teachers" have degrees in early childhood education. Has anyone bothered to ask? As far as the socialization value of a school forget it. You are a fool if you think your child is being socialized correctly unless you want your child to be a bar girl or a tout. If you use the ps system you must use the special classes routine. I think it would be better to take your child to school have them be marked as present and then take them home to home school them.

Post by **semperfiguy** » January 12, 2012, 12:12 pm

This may be a little off topic, but I have a brilliant 27 year old stepdaughter who finished her Bachelors at the University of Rajabhat, Udon Thani before I married her mother in mid-2010. She wanted to follow in her mother's footsteps and be an English school teacher, so I sent her back to the uni for one year to get her teacher's certificate. She finished the course last September, but BKK will not be issuing her certificate until March using the excuse that the flooding has set them back in processing time. So, that's six months that she has to wait before she can take the government exam to get a shot at being an "official" government teacher whereby she qualifies for all the extra benefits as mentioned in a previous post here. In the meantime she has had to resort to teaching in a private school in a smaller city northwest of Udon. The director of the school treats her and the other teachers like slaves. He took a 10,000 baht deposit from her that she would lose if she left within the first 90 days. My stepdaughter says that he treats all the teachers like dogs, as if on purpose, and there is continuous turnover. Therefore, he is raking in the extra baht by taking their deposits. If they miss a day of work for any reason, even if a hospital visit is required for illness, he charges them back 300 baht per day from their salary. He pays them under the table and doesn't report their employment to the government so he won't have to pay the Social Security payment that is required. He provides meals for the students and teachers in the canteen as included in the tuition costs, but some days only rice with a sauce is provided, or even worse a bowl of broth on occasion.

Salaries start at 7000 per month, but government teachers start now at 15,000. So, in order to subsidize their earnings some of the teachers were offering private tutoring in their homes after regular school hours. When the director found out he put a stop to it by having all teachers stay in their class rooms for an additional two hours after school. This guy is absolutely barbaric, and yet every teacher is scared to death to confront him or whistle blow on him to any concerned government agency.

So, is it any wonder why so many teachers are not motivated to do well in their classrooms. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes with these unscrupulous school directors. One of my wife's closest friends has been teaching for years and now qualifies to be awarded an "official" government teacher position. However, her director is asking for 300,000 baht up front to help "push it through" with no guarantee that she will even get the accreditation.

So much for the Thai educational system.

Post by **trubrit** » January 12, 2012, 1:41 pm

Semper . Not off topic at all, in fact it illustrates precisely what I was saying, the teaching profession, right from the very top is run just like a cattle market without any concern for the pupils they are supposed to teach.

Post by **cute girl 555+** » January 12, 2012, 1:58 pm

I don't think all teachers DO NOT concern about pupils - for someone ummm... it maybe!

Post by **nkstan** » January 12, 2012, 5:35 pm

cute girl 555+ wrote:I don't think all teachers DO NOT concern about pupils - for someone ummm... it maybe!

You are right,BUT the problem is that the vast majority seem to have to little concern for such an important position in life,IMO!
I imagine that many start their career very concerned,After some time they finally fall into step with the ''not concerned'',for whatever reasons,feeling of futility with the system or students,not wanting senior teachers to loose face or just trying to fit in!Also,many young new teachers spend their time trying to advance themselves to better schools,better pay and convenience!The students become less and less important,especially when the majority of them seem to

have little motivation to LEARN!

Post by **semperfiguy** » January 12, 2012, 7:07 pm

I just spoke with my wife over dinner to get a little more insight into the teaching profession. When she graduated the University of Rajabhat, Udon Thani with a Bachelors she then was qualified to take the exam to be considered for an "official" teaching position whereby she would be entitled to all the added benefits e.g. free medical benefits for the entire family, pension upon retirement, etc. At her first exam were a total of 30,000 applicants from around Thailand and only 5,000 qualified as having passed with a 70% score or above in each subject. My wife was #47 from the top. The government will start from #1 and work their way down over the next two years to farm out the top teachers to official positions around Thailand. If one is not called during the first two years, then they must retake the exam with all the other new applicants coming out of the universities and compete with them for the top scores once again. Then the process of waiting to be called within the next two years begins all over again.

So here is the problem...with corruption running rampant in this industry, any one of those top 5,000 (in my wife's example) could approach someone in a position of authority, either personally or by way of another family member such as a parent, and make an offer to pay corruption money in order to secure one of the few positions that may be available during the ensuing two year term. So someone like my wife, who is either unable to raise that kind of money or refuses to participate in that corrupt system for reasons of integrity, continues to be pushed down the ladder and is most times never called for an official position. My wife says she played that game for 15 years and was never called up until the time I asked her to retire.

Is it any wonder why so many teachers just give up after getting so frustrated with that kind of system.

Post by **greatsnake** » January 12, 2012, 8:49 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:@greatsnake - I thought the same. The reality is a bit different. Homeschooling 100% means less chance for social development (aka friends). Very important.

I agree that social development and language skills are important. That's why he will stay in the school system until he hits puberty. After puberty, academics is the most important aspect of schooling, by far.

I strongly recommend the " * for the Practical Man" series by J.E. Thompson for young teens. By the age of 15 or 16, he should be ready for proper Mathematics. He would NEVER get proper instruction in any Thai school. That is why my family is fortunate that I can supervise his education in his teenage years.

My son is also fortunate, in a sense, that he has come from 3 generations of Math/Engineering types and I am expecting he will have a similar aptitude as his bloodline. It is possible, but doubtful, that he will not have the same aptitude for Mathematics as myself and his grandfather and great-grandfather. If that be the case, or should he have special abilities in other areas, then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

The important point is that my expectations for him are much higher than any Thai teacher would have. In addition, I have the educational background to help him to succeed.

One final point, I would recommend you read/listen to "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" if you are interested in giving your child a proper education in Mathematics. You'll understand why after you've read/listened to it.

Post by **marshbags** » February 1, 2012, 8:30 am

Can anyone provide me with insight into two universities and compare them for my please regarding a BA in English teaching programme.

Khon Kaen and Burapha " International " University.

I am advised that Burapha has two sections and the International part is of a higher standard to accomodate overseas applicants.

Any information is welcomed.

Thank you

marshbags

Post by **marshbags** » February 1, 2012, 9:15 am

I am looking for personal observations and experiences please as against general stuff via google ect. which I have had a look at.

Thanks

marshbags

Post by **Jing Jing** » February 1, 2012, 4:53 pm

If you are trying to meet the MOE requirements for teaching I would be leery of any program that offered a BA and not a BEd.

A lot of so called language programs are really taught in Thai. I would ask both schools if all the courses in their BA programs are taught in English.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » February 1, 2012, 9:35 pm

You should contact the universities concerned directly either in person or by telephone and find out what is best for you. Obviously, they should have some brochures available, but an important decision like this requires some on location investigation.

Post by **Frankie 1** » February 2, 2012, 3:13 am

marshbags wrote:Can anyone provide me with insight into two universities and compare them for my please regarding a BA in English teaching programme.

Khon Kaen and Burapha " International " University.

I am advised that Burapha has two sections and the International part is of a higher standard to accomodate overseas applicants.

Any information is welcomed.

Thank you

marshbags

I'm familiar with the Ramkhamhaeng international program (IIS) in Bangkok. Check out their website.

http://www.iis.ru.ac.th/English_Program ... rogram.htm

They have a teacher qualification program as well.

http://www.iis.ru.ac.th/English_Program ... cation.htm

I've studied there for one semester and I know several other people who study there. Most professors are Western professors.