The F Word - PLEASE not around my kids

[rct]

We habitually enjoy dining as a family at Nobi's, City Lodge, Coffee Corner, etc and this means with my polite wife who speaks fluent English, and our impressionable 3 and 5 year old bilingual children.

This morning at one of the above, we were at a table next to an American gentleman with whom I enojyed a brief conversation. OK, might have been Canadian.....I get the two mixed up sometimes (I am one of them).

Then once his breakfast companion arrived, another mature American/Canadian male, they were oblivious to our presence, which would be fine, except the majority of their conversation was about specific bar girl prices and quality, strategies, short time vs long time, etc. and to make matters worse, much worse in fact, one of these two (only one of them) for some reason was one of those blokes that put the F word into almost every sentence. I gathered from their talk that they are living here, not just passing through.

I mean, what the Fxck, my wife and kids are sitting Fxcking right there one Fxcking meter away, you silly Fxcking fart. OK, got that out of my system, not sure if using the F word for emphasis did any good or not, so next time I probably won't use it. Hope you won't either if my wife and children are around.

[pompui]

If it was me, I would have politely asked the bloke that you already had a brief conversation with, to point out your family all understand English well and that may have made him realise to move to another table since the bloke would know what his friend is like with the F word.
Unfortunately these days the F word is viewed as ok in conversation so they may not realise that manners go along way these days,just like someone having a cigarette within close proximity of other diners.
Hope it has not put you off going back to whichever of these fine establishments you were at,can certainly see you choosing your table near other families from now on instead of farangs initially on their own.

[semperfiguy]

This idea of cursing in the presence of a lady and children has always been a pet peeve of mine. There is no place safe in Udon, or any other city in Thailand for that matter, if one expects to take his wife or girlfriend out in public and not run into one or more farangs that just spew filth whenever they open their mouths. It's hard for me to stomach because I wasn't raised that way. In my younger days I was the chief of sinners, but I don't remember ever disrespecting a woman or child with vulgar language if I knew they were within hearing distance. At first I thought it was just a symptom of the type of low end farangs that seem to be populating Issan these days, but on closer examination it seems to apply to just about everyone...regardless of their perceived social status. Guys seem to think they can come to Thailand and live with total abandonment of social norms that they might otherwise respect back in their home countries. Else, a good many of them were just social perverts before they even hit the shores of Thailand. In any event, it's a down right embarrassment for me to have to apologize to my wife for the behavior of other farangs. Is it any wonder that they paint us all with the same brush whether they admit it or not!

[Galee]

. At first I thought it was just a symptom of the type of low end farangs that seem to be populating Issan these days, but on closer examination it seems to apply to just about everyone...

Thats quite a sweeping statement. I would imagine that there's quite a few people on here that would disagree.

[mally]

Well I agree mostly with Semerfiguy, it does seem to be the norm, with only a few exceptions.
Using foul language infront of women & kids is a pet hate of mine also, and I'm no prude, I work on building sites so I hear and speak plenty at work.
I'm now 63, and I still dare not swear infront of my mother ! I think it's called respect, something that all too many people seem to be lacking.

[trubrit]

~!00% agree. I don't normally take my family to the sort of places these loud mouths frequent but occasionally it does happen, so I explain to my family that the English language is the best in the world for its ability to convey virtually any emotion without recourse to using expletives and those that do are only showing there lack of education and ultimately there lack of class, or some might say, deprived up bringing.It is not confined to those from the US, some of the Brits are by far the worst, especially under the influence of alcohol. However one particularly nasty profanity seems to be exclusively American, That's the " Mother f---ker@ one . Last year during one of the US military exercises we were at the pool of the Napoli Hotel where some of the military were staying, they were constantly using that to address not only each other but the Thai girl friends as well .My wife asked me what it meant and when I explained she was amazed asking, do they really make love to their own mothers .What could I say? Where did it originate? Do they really know what it means ?

[rct]

All afternoon, I felt remorse for implying the F word to demonstrate it's inappropriateness.

[mathusalah80]

I THINK Galee is right as well as thinking, and hoping, Mally is wrong.
Just out of personal curiosity, I quickly scribbled down falangs of my, close and casual, acquantance not suffering from the dual problems of limited vocabulary and sub averge intellect. I was easily able to come up with twenty names of male falangs I have never heard use the F word or, indeed, foul languag or behave offensively to other customers.

When I go out for an evening, whether with my wife, other falangs or solo, I always look carefully at who is inside any restaurant or bar I may be considering going into before I actually go inside. Clothing, Body Language, Voice volume and their companions are invariably good indicators of what you are likely to be walking into.

I agree with you Pompui that, in a normal , (which word these days means different things to different people!), civilized environment, I would consider doing what you suggest. But in Udonthani, I simply wouldn't take the chance of ending up in hospital. I have had RCT's experience on several occasions, including in one of the establishments he mentioned. Our mutual decision was to have a quiet word with the waitress, and move to an alternative distant table.

[semperfiguy]

All afternoon, I felt remorse for implying the F word to demonstrate it's inappropriateness.

It's OK rct! We all say and do things we don't mean when we are frustrated and feel helpless to change people and circumstances around us. It just proves that you have a conscience...and it is working the way God intended it to work. We all have one...a conscience that is! Unfortunately, with a lot of folks it hasn't worked in so long it has become desensitized and in some cases is beyond repair.

[Ricohoc]

Where some choose to eat and its proximity to bar girls and those who like bar girls are more than likely to overhear conversations like that.


Which is why I don't bring my family to eat in proximity to bar girls and those who like bar girls.

Do I eat in all of those establishments listed? Yes, I do, but with other male friends.

[papaguido]

Where some choose to eat and its proximity to bar girls and those who like bar girls are more than likely to overhear conversations like that.


Which is why I don't bring my family to eat in proximity to bar girls and those who like bar girls.

Do I eat in all of those establishments listed? Yes, I do, but with other male friends.

My sentiments exactly. Day or night Soi Sampan is practically a red light district, not family friendly IMO.

[rct]

Now I regret the "bad press" going to the establishments mentioned, not my intention.

Coffee Corner at 08h00 Sunday is not where one thinks of avoiding due to it being within a few hundred meters of Day N NIght, and anyway we never go to any of these places after say 19h00, our visits usually during daylight "family" hours for early meals.

In their own country these particular guys would never carry on a conversation like that in a restaurant seated next to a family. So why do it here? Just a bad apple slowly deteriorating I guess, getting sucked into the bar scene lifestyle which makes them forget proper behavior. Next time as recommended, I will diplomatically speak up when such barbarism is affecting my family, so long as the speaker does not look too scary... hey these were a couple of pensioners.

Civility needs to be encouraged. Speaking of which, most visitors to Central Plaza seem to be cleaning up well, I never knew there were so many stylish folks in Udon.

[Ricohoc]

In their own country these particular guys would never carry on a conversation like that in a restaurant seated next to a family. So why do it here? Just a bad apple slowly deteriorating I guess, getting sucked into the bar scene lifestyle which makes them forget proper behavior. Next time as recommended, I will diplomatically speak up when such barbarism is affecting my family, so long as the speaker does not look too scary... hey these were a couple of pensioners.

If near a red light district in their home country, I would expect those foreigners to carry on the same way; and I wouldn't expect a family in their home country to be anywhere near a red light district regardless of the time of day or night. Personally, I think you're asking for trouble to push the envelope and dine with your family in places where you have had bad experiences with patrons, but up2u. You really have no idea with whom you are confronting. Someone with nothing to lose could cause your family to lose you.

I've witnessed a confrontation like you describe not too far from where you have been dining. Two buddies of the trash-talker helped mop the floor with the guy who was concerned about their language. I'm just one of those people who believes that there are alternatives to planting the flag and dying on every hilltop. Someone's language, when I have the power to change venues or move further away from it, isn't worth what could happen should I confront them.

Civility needs to be encouraged.

We can't make people who we want them to be, but encouraging by example is usually the best way.

There are great family restaurants all over Udon and not far from the venues that you mentioned. Some are located in UD Town, the Night Market, numerous restaurants along the ring road (I have dined in many of them) and even in the center of town. I've never heard a foreigner or anyone else utter offensive language in any of them in the six years that I have frequented them. I think your family will have a better dining experience in all of them, and you won't run the risk of being physically harmed.

[jai yen yen]

I would have asked them nicely to tone it down, even bar areas or bars themselves I don't like that kind of talk but unfortunately respect and politeness is becoming a thing of the past. It does not matter where you were those guys should have had some thought for your wife and children.

[rct]

In defense of those establishments which are run by very hard working and hospitable people, it is rare that we have experienced improper behavior, perhaps given the time of day we go.

The last time I felt compelled to post a similar topic, in 3.5 years based in Udon, was in June 2010, about a scary looking foreigner who I chose NOT to exchange words with, link below for those who didn't see it then. So once every 21 months not so bad? If such an experience becomes more frequent, OK then, agreed that would be time to take my family elsewhere.

http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/n ... 17484.html

[harmonyudon]

....So once every 21 months not so bad? If such an experience becomes more frequent, OK then,
agreed that would be time to take my family elsewhere.

Sorry to say....you can go with your family to the nightmarket,UD-town,centara,president hotel,napolai,hilton in Amsterdam or anywhere in the world you can have the same experience with or without your family,also business
men in suites can talk like that.

[Zico]

I agree with Ricohoc. If I had a wife and kids I'd be pretty picky about where I took them and if someone was behaving in a way I found inappropriate in our vicinity I'd leave rather than challenge them in my family's presence. Doesn't make any sense to risk an ugly scene in that situation.

It's really for the proprietor to intervene in my opinion but I have seen third parties ask people to respect the presence of children before. I assume from his indignation that the original poster would do the same.

[harmonyudon]

Saw once a very beautifull lady (presumably an office lady) parking her car in front of a bussy restaurant
at lunch time. Many eyes of men were staring at her when she enter that restaurant with an i-pad in
her hand and she took a table in front of me.

After she ordered she lean forward to play with her i-pad and I could see her redstring and part of her ass.
Is this also inappropriate behaviour??????Should the manager intervene??

[arjay]

Yes, I too agree, I find it offensive to have to listen to the repeated use of the "F" word when in public places, restaurants etc, when I'm on my own, let alone when I'm with my wife and daughter. I too would hesitate to intervene or make my feelings known to the types indulging their vocabulary.

I would guess that it isn't esteemed members of Udonmap forum involved. UM members usually seem sufficiently articulate to have a wider vocabulary than just 4 letter words. So I doubt the offenders would pick up on these posts.

[Galee]

True story as told to me yesterday by an Aussie friend.

An Aussie policeman comes to Thailand and meets nice Thai lady. They get on well, get married and are very happy. The Aussie has a very colourful language, using the 'F' word in every sentence. His wife, thinking this is normal, also speaks the same.
After a couple of years he decides it's time he took his wife to Oz to meet his family. When he introduces his wife to his mother his wife says to her, "very pleased to effing meet you".