Will the ARMY step in again

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redwolf
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by redwolf » January 11, 2014, 8:18 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:No, it doesn't. It neglects, as all articles seem to do, the fact that the major players in all of this are Chinese (Sino-Thais). It misses the point that the Bangkok Chinese, who back Suthep, want to shut out the Thai people from any influence on government.
Now we are getting somewhere.

I'd always wondered who they backed. Most pictures of parliament show an abundance of Chinese Thais and fewer Thais over time.

Aren't there Sino-Thais who are Pro-Thaksin or did he disrupt their grip on all things money, power and influence?

And what of the actual Chinese government, who do you think they back?

And the U.S., who are they siding with?

I ask purely out of curiosity as I know little, figure some of you wise elder folk might have some info on the subject.

RW


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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by FrazeeDK » January 11, 2014, 8:35 am

Taksin is Sino-Thai as are many of his associates.. He developed his political backing in the northern and northeastern areas by promising and actually implementing populist policies where previous politicians promises were not fulfilled. I see this not as a Sino-Thai versus "Thai" thing but as a power struggle between the old economic elite and the new economic elite with many at the top willing to step back and forth depending upon where they see an advantage in gaining power or wealth.. The masses that protest do break down ethnically but I think that's based more on class and the location of the different political bases; Red; northeast/north, Yellow; Metro Bangkok/South and the perceptions of those masses on which side has and will benefit them more.. Suthep as the key instigator (or designated front man) of the current anti-government protests is not Sino-Thai but southern Thai.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Zidane » January 11, 2014, 9:20 am

Certainly any PDRC (Suthep) sympathisers should be very wary in Isaan and the North of Thailand.
Earlier in the week some followers of the PDRC tried to hold a protest march in Chiang Mai whilst distributing leaflets to encourage people to join their cause.
They were set upon by Red Shirt followers who hurled bottles and stones at them and assaulted some motor cycle riding female protesters before Police intervened.
In Khon Kaen a PDRC activist has said he believes the Red Shirts have a list of 300 PDRC sympathisers in the area and fears his family will be targeted if the Yingluck government is deposed.

The Filipino Government has urged its nationals in Thailand not to wear any red or yellow clothing for fear of being caught up in the troubles.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Asiaphile » January 11, 2014, 10:03 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:No, it doesn't. It neglects, as all articles seem to do, the fact that the major players in all of this are Chinese (Sino-Thais). It misses the point that the Bangkok Chinese, who back Suthep, want to shut out the Thai people from any influence on government.
Yes, it does!
Mark Fenn wrote:The conflict is being waged between rival factions of the elite, but also on class, ethnic and regional fronts.
. What he doesn't do is reduce the conflict to a simple Sino-Thai conflict. He clearly showed, that it is a multi-faceted quandary.
FrazeeDK wrote:Taksin is Sino-Thai as are many of his associates... He developed his political backing in the northern and northeastern areas by promising and actually implementing populist policies where previous politicians promises were not fulfilled. I see this not as a Sino-Thai versus "Thai" thing but as a power struggle between the old economic elite and the new economic elite with many at the top willing to step back and forth depending upon where they see an advantage in gaining power or wealth ..
Right on the money! Especially struggling for power. The contestants are rich enough.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by jai yen yen » January 11, 2014, 10:10 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:No, it doesn't. It neglects, as all articles seem to do, the fact that the major players in all of this are Chinese (Sino-Thais). It misses the point that the Bangkok Chinese, who back Suthep, want to shut out the Thai people from any influence on government.
I believe Chinese Thai are the problem in Thailand, Sino or any other group, all the same to me. Actually there are not many countries that are happy with the Chinese influence and before anyone starts on the racist thing I am not a racist, just a realist.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » January 11, 2014, 12:03 pm

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by jackspratt » January 11, 2014, 12:38 pm

bumper wrote:Bad move b Thaks LAwyer

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... ed-by-army
While I have no time for Amsterdam (Thaksin's paid legal/media tart), he is generally (no pun intended) perfectly correct in what he says in his opinion piece - which concludes with this paragraph:
What is clear is that until the Thai Army is brought under lawful, accountable, democratic and civilian control it will act as a force hindering Thailand’s struggling – yet burgeoning – democracy.

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/201 ... democracy/

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » January 11, 2014, 12:45 pm

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by parrot » January 11, 2014, 8:13 pm

Singha and Leo may be (probably not) on sale in Udon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world ... ks.html?hp

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » January 11, 2014, 10:08 pm

redwolf wrote:
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:No, it doesn't. It neglects, as all articles seem to do, the fact that the major players in all of this are Chinese (Sino-Thais). It misses the point that the Bangkok Chinese, who back Suthep, want to shut out the Thai people from any influence on government.
Now we are getting somewhere.

I'd always wondered who they backed. Most pictures of parliament show an abundance of Chinese Thais and fewer Thais over time.

Aren't there Sino-Thais who are Pro-Thaksin or did he disrupt their grip on all things money, power and influence?

And what of the actual Chinese government, who do you think they back?

And the U.S., who are they siding with?


I ask purely out of curiosity as I know little, figure some of you wise elder folk might have some info on the subject.

RW
Yes, there are many Chinese (Sino-Thais) who back Thaksin too. Note that both Thakin's family and that of Abhsit, the leader of the Democratic Party, are Hakka Chinese. The difference is that Yingluck/Thaksin rely on rural Thais primarily in the north and northeast but also parts of Central Thailand to support them in elections. In return Thaksin was the first politician in Thailand to do anything for the Thai farmers. This is not to say that he did this out of a real concern for the people. The interests of his family always seemed to come first.

But, the Suthep, former PAD group, are out to shut the Thais out from having any influence in government at all.

Many Thais, especially in the south, support the Democratic Party and Suthep.

Many business people, who are mainly Sino-Thais, support Thaksin/Yingluck too.

The United States, like most other countries, are fairly neutral, and do not want to have a freely elected government replaced except at the polls. They want a stable government that is good for trade and regional peace and quiet. I would say that China follows this policy too. Sino-Thais from Bangkok and Thakin's family have many business connexions with China.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » January 11, 2014, 10:13 pm

jackspratt wrote: While I have no time for Amsterdam (Thaksin's paid legal/media tart), he is generally (no pun intended) perfectly correct in what he says in his opinion piece - which concludes with this paragraph:
What is clear is that until the Thai Army is brought under lawful, accountable, democratic and civilian control it will act as a force hindering Thailand’s struggling – yet burgeoning – democracy.

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/201 ... democracy/

As you know, Thakin's military reformist policies was one of the reasons that got him in trouble with the army previously. I think he wanted the Prime Minister (him) to make the choice of Army Supreme Commander instead of the old system in which the Army head was chosen by....(I forget). Was it the Privy Council headed by Prem?
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by redwolf » January 12, 2014, 12:31 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
Yes, there are many Chinese (Sino-Thais) who back Thaksin too. Note that both Thakin's family and that of Abhsit, the leader of the Democratic Party, are Hakka Chinese. The difference is that Yingluck/Thaksin rely on rural Thais primarily in the north and northeast but also parts of Central Thailand to support them in elections. In return Thaksin was the first politician in Thailand to do anything for the Thai farmers. This is not to say that he did this out of a real concern for the people. The interests of his family always seemed to come first.

But, the Suthep, former PAD group, are out to shut the Thais out from having any influence in government at all.

Many Thais, especially in the south, support the Democratic Party and Suthep.

Many business people, who are mainly Sino-Thais, support Thaksin/Yingluck too.

The United States, like most other countries, are fairly neutral, and do not want to have a freely elected government replaced except at the polls. They want a stable government that is good for trade and regional peace and quiet. I would say that China follows this policy too. Sino-Thais from Bangkok and Thakin's family have many business connexions with China.
Thanks LYM, that's basic enough that I can wrap my head around the push / pull behind the scenes here, and match it with what I've already seen.

In San Francisco, most westerners e.g. non-asians, often make the mistake of not doing their politcal homework. Whichever way the Chinese-American vote goes, the election goes. What started as a Labor migration, eventuated a diaspora of significant proportion, which then evolved toward a position of major economic therefore political power. Entire political battles get fought between local western protagonists, only to be silently trumped by a much more organized and patient group of Han businessmen. At least that's how it is in S.F.

I can only imagine the depth of such power and influence here "right next door".

If stable trade is the name of the game from the outside looking in, what are the main products / services that are so important as to care what happens to this place? Rice? Manufacturing? Labor?

While Red vs Yellow fight it out, hasn't everything slipped out the door to a neighboring country?

I guess what I am asking is:

What are these people actually fighting over, -other than trying to figure out basic democracy after years of being run by corrupt 'big boss' politicians and miltary puppet rulers?

I ask, because again, I don't know. In Africa, you can usually peg exactly wha's at stake in a given conflict, if not territory, usually a specific resource like oil, diamonds, etc.

Here, it's actually not easy to tell why an otherwise financially well off country should edge so closely to civil war. It doesn't make sense.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » January 12, 2014, 1:00 am

They are all fighting over power, prestige and money. This includes the Sino-Chinese, and the urban and rural Thais.

Furthermore, we cannot even attempt to discuss some of the major players in this power struggle.

No, I do not think anything has slipped out the door to any neighbouring country yet. Most, if not all, of Thailand's neighbours have the same problems to varying degrees.

Oh, and these groups are vying to control over resources such as rice, forests, minerals, fish and what-have-you to gain profit for themselves and their followers, and to distribute some leftovers for the 'little people'.

The analyst for the Asia Society in the thread 'Suthep Voted Asia's Person of the Year' provides many answers. Let me copy it, http://asiasociety.org/blog/asia/how-th ... -year-poll
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by rreddin » January 12, 2014, 9:34 am

The Asia Society's analyst has confirmed what I have thought for a while. It is about the Lancastrians and the Yorks and ne'er a prospect of a Tudor rose.

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Post by Drunk Monkey » January 12, 2014, 11:14 am

Was in 3 different locations in Bangkok yesterday and it appeared very much business as usual again same as the last trip earlier this week , main road intersections had beefed up manning by men in black , most of the U turns on the main roads were all blocked off and did see lots of trucks/vans flashing lights moving security personnel . Lots of police on the toll gates checking vehicles .

Back in Bkk next Wednesday/Thursday things may be different by then , very importantly i did notice some army vehicles on low loaders being moved and some army trucks on the city outskirts leading me to to say im still predicting a military coup within the next few days .

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » January 12, 2014, 12:06 pm

Here is where I'm getting bit lost with Mr Sutheps idea. A Royalist type Government, would seem to be the best that could come from his idea.

A Panel appointed to govern sounds a lot like China a communist country. What am I missing?
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Asiaphile » January 12, 2014, 2:25 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:The United States, like most other countries, are fairly neutral, and do not want to have a freely elected government replaced except at the polls.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The US is known to speak with a forked tongue as far as international affairs are concerned. What is good for America is good for the world.

Their double-speak on the Thai coup of 2006 is a case in point.The Wikileaks have revealed that they were fully aware of the upcoming coup and had even acquiesced it, but after the coup they put up a charade to fool the world that they, as the defenders of democracry, had suspended military aid to, and joint exercises with Thailand to express their 'disapproval.'

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » January 12, 2014, 11:35 pm

Thanks for that information re: the U.S. policy. I guess that can apply to many of the nations that condemned the coup.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » January 13, 2014, 6:49 am

The real problem with my Country is they think one size fits all when it comes to Democracy. It just doesn't work that way.

The other is they forget Democracy is a nasty business with a huge amount of growing pains. just as we had in our first 100 years and sometimes still today. Today what the U.S. really needs to do is clean up it's own backyard. Is there vote buying there certainly in a form. It takes vast amounts of money to run a Campaign, you won't get that money without doing something for it. I try to never forget when I look at Thailand.

The one advantage they have is the rule of Law. Freedom of speech does not extend to stopping others rights. Here you can yell fire in a crowded theater. There you can't, you can't block sidewalks and intersections, if you do you would be subject to immediate arrest which would in most cases be followed through on.

So in that aspect Thailand has a ways to go.

I'm not a exactly sure what Mr. Suthep is really trying to establish. I do know that tearing apart an existing Government, is not good for the Country. Here it's more like the rule of the Mob and this won' be the last time we see it.

Another person killed last night, when the REDS occupied Bangkok how many died, for what we are right back where we started when the PAD did it's thing.

Even if the Anti Government movement did show up with a million people, would that be a majority here, I think not.

As sure as I sit here right now there will be more deaths more violence and this won't be the last of it.

It's sad.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Aardvark » January 13, 2014, 7:39 am

Their wasting no time in setting up .... http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... ed-at-dawn

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