Will the ARMY step in again

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bumper
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 19, 2014, 7:20 pm

Looks like Yingluk had a tough day

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/yinglu ... rotesters/

There were so many incidents today. can't even list them. Checking the breaking news on this site if you want to see them.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/yinglu ... rotesters/


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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 19, 2014, 7:30 pm

bumper wrote:Courts have ruled that the Government can't break up the rallies. So I wonder whats next?
This should come as no surprise.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by fdimike » February 19, 2014, 8:10 pm

Bumper
I don't want to argue over the issue of the explosive. However, since you continue to bring it up I will say this. If it had been a standard military grenade a lot more people would have been killed/injured by the fragments. It does not appear to look like a 40mm M-79 grenade either as it would have killed/injured a lot of people when it went off sending lethal fragments out to some 5 or so meters. Once again It appears to me to look like some sort of round explosive device (maybe home made) which hit the cops shield and fell to the ground. The cops should have moved away from the thing and stood behind their shields. I maintain that the last thing you would want to do is kick an unexploded explosive. It's easy to see the cop lifting his shield to kick at the explosive as though it were a soccer (football) ball.

The court did not say the cops can't break up the rallies. It said the government cannot use force against the protestors. It also said the government cannot use the State of Emergency to clamp down on the protestors. the Civil Court also stated their ruling was in line with an earlier ruling by Th Constitutional Court.
Apparently the court order covered 9 different issues which prohibits the government/police from blocking protestors who want to attend the rallies, prohibits the police from tearing down the protestors stages, prohibits the governenment from taking any action against people selling goods/food/donating money to the protestors, prohibits the government from blocking roads the protestors want to use, overturns the part of the emergency decree which limits to 5 the number of people wishing to gather, and what I've already stated above regarding the use of force.

I hope this clears up both these issues.
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Asiaphile
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Asiaphile » February 19, 2014, 8:11 pm

fdimike wrote:Sounds like more of an idiot to me.
Thank you for making that clear.
Fortunately for us we have our own in-house keyboard Rambo to explain to us what an utter imbecile this officer is, and what he should have done to quality as a hero.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Asiaphile » February 19, 2014, 10:23 pm

The faces behind the tragedy:
Grenade-Kicking Policeman In Stable Condition
In one of the most iconic and widely shared videos of the clashes between riot police and anti-government protesters in Bangkok yesterday, a group of policemen were huddling together with their shields up, facing the demonstrators.
...
Today, it emerged that the "sidekick cop" or "grenade kicker hero" - as nicknamed by Netizens - is still alive and making good recovery at Police Hospital.
The policeman was identified as Pol.Sen.Sgt.Maj. Teeradet Ui-Charoen. Medical workers said he suffered severe legs injuries from the grenade blast, but the wounds fortunately did not need amputation.

Ms. Jeerapa Lek-khu, the wife of the 44-year old policeman, said she was saddened by the incident and worried that the wounds might be infected in the future.
According to Ms. Jeerapa, Pol.Sen.Sgt.Maj. Teeradet told her that he was ordering his friend to place a shield next to him when the grenade was thrown at the team, so he decided to kick it away.
"He decided to do that because he loves his friends a lot," Ms. Jeerapa said, "I′ve been with him for a long time. I know how much he loves his friends".
However, she added, "But I don′t want my husband to be a hero. I just want his legs to be normal again".
more

bumper
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 9:42 am

In watching that video they did exactly as they had been trained, using the shields. Which would have worked very well with rocks and bottles. But not something like that, he reacted to a situation that Police are not trained for. But, either way he would have been injured, just as his co workers were.

Their hands seem to really be tied now much more then they were before.

The obvious answer is the Army is not going to step in. An interesting side note during the Watt's riots the National Guard was brought in to assist in restoring order. Some of us probably remember the Kent State tragedy, that was the National guard. So military being brought in wouldn't be a first in the world. But, once things are under control, they return to their normal activities and don't opt to govern.

The EC won't cooperate with the Phua Thai. So the hand writing is on the wall. Suthip will accomplish what he set out to do, barring unforeseen circumstances. Which would more the likely come in the form of the Red Shirts. Two things can happen as I see it they can intervene now, or sit up a new party under a different name and different players. Then win another election. The cycle will just continue. In the meantime will Suthip get his committee,that I don't know. But, some entity has to Govern. This one has different twist to it. Parliament has been dissolved, the care taker Government is under attack, it had limited powers. They have now had even those powers reduced. Essentially can't govern. Maybe some day Thailand will adhere to one person one vote and actually live by the rule of law. But, it's not today.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... -poll-plan
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 11:11 am

Sorry Mike I just want you to know you were right about the kicking. How each of us view it is really personal thing. Didn't meant to argue with you. I just had a different point of view

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 2:24 pm

Well things just seem to from bad to worse

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... ks-highway

Now they are including the family business

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... ra-tower-3
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by fdimike » February 20, 2014, 3:08 pm

It's ok Ray no need to apologize but I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Thank you
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by FrazeeDK » February 20, 2014, 3:31 pm

I thought all those farmers were broke and in debt.. Who is paying for this massive protest convoy?

ah, blocking private property and impeding private citizens going onto private property to their jobs.. Will this fall under the new Court Order blocking the emergency Decree??

Funny, with all the crap that happened back in 2010 I don't remember the courts blocking any suppression of the protesters then...
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by maaka » February 20, 2014, 3:37 pm

different court, different government...
me I am merely astounded as to the lengths a certain wee fella in Dubai, or wherever, is going too, in order to try and get home and back into power...oh to be rich with oodles of time on your hands..

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by marjamlew » February 20, 2014, 3:55 pm

Maybe we need a new thread: Will the judiciary step in again?
Although the answer to that one is as plain as the nose on ya face.
Gotta love the separation of powers in LOS.
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 5:11 pm

You know it's funny, how confusing the right to free speech can be. Wonder how it will evolve in Thailand. Right to free speech is a big thing in the U.S., But, just like Thailand it libel and slander does come along with it. So yes you can say what you want to say. But, if it harms another penalties can come with it. The only defense is it the truth You see that a lot here in Thai courts, much more then in the states.

The right to protest yep we had that. But, this is where it defers. You can march up and down a sidewalk all you want. But, the second you block entrance to a building that someone want to go into. The group has to make way for the person who wants to go in, You can not prevent a business from conducting business by blocking intrances. Yuo can not block entrance to a goverment building, you darn sure can't block a voting location, nor can thye impeded the flow of traffic.

If any of those things happen any Police Officer on the scene can declare it an unlawful assembly and give a dispersal order.

If they fail disperse, thye are subject to arrest. Crowd control can begin, with reasonable force. Reasonable force would be difined by the crowds beahvior. The move away, nothing more needs to be done. They don't move then a sweep would be started. If that isn't effective then tear gas. But the min. someone arms themselves to resist there would be an esclation of force. Rocks and bottles that goes with the territory. We didn't have sheilds. But, we did have helmets with clear visors on them. But the if they went to molatoff cocktails then thye are using deadly force and you could use deadly force to respond.

This is all based on codified law and case law. That has not been developed here.

Thailand has a long ways to go to get to that point, But it's not politicians calling the shots.

Can you imagine in your home Country, someone blocking your right to vote.

When I look at the right to protest and free speech, it seems to be an ever evolving act. There was a time that in California if yuo used swear words around women and children, you had comitted a Disturbance of the Peace and you could be arrested. That no longer exists, changed through case law.

Thailand has a very long way to go to protect the rights of all, not just the protestor and lets face they don't even make up 1% of the population. But, they rule over the other 99%.

Nothing is going to change with this grey area that exists now and with politicians calling the shots. It would get real nasty in he U.S. if a group were to try to block the White House or the halls of Congress. Don't get yourself we haven't seen things like this in the States, Protestors trying to block the Democratic Convention in Chicago. Those people were not handled with kid gloves then and they wouldn't be today either.

The hypocracy of my home country bothers me, when they sit standards for another country, that they don't follow themselves. It is no wonder why we see what we do today as to the rights of free speech.

Thailand today is rule by mob. It's sad.

It's also dangerous, what happens if a portion of the 99% decides it's had enough and they step up. They got the same rights as the PRDC. What the don't have is the discipline and restraint the Police have. You throw a rock at them and their not just going to stand there. It could go from what we see now to a major riot and mayhem in an instant. The Police have not been allowed to deal with has been in front of them so far. They had the force available. But, are not allowed to use it. So what could they do with a huge riot. Not much I would say.

How did the farmers get the the PRDC paid for it.

I will step down form my soap box now :D
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 6:35 pm

10,000 farmers added to the protest

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/farmer ... g-bangkok/

Anything but peaceful today, two more cops shot, shots fired at the protestors from a bridge

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/category/breakingnews/

Charlem asks for clarification of ruling.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/chaler ... fy-ruling/
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by bumper » February 20, 2014, 6:59 pm

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 20, 2014, 7:33 pm

bumper wrote:But it's not politicians calling the shots.
This is the key to the protests. Now, who would you say is calling the shots?
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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Zidane » February 20, 2014, 7:47 pm

Slightly off topic but an amusing event as part of this saga......
The Shinawatra family own the SC Hotel,a 3 star in Bangkok.Someone from the PDRC made some reservations at the hotel which the reception unwittingly accepted.
It turned out these reservations were on behalf of some protesting rice farmers on their way to Bangkok :shock: .They turned up outside the hotel in their tractors and,not surprisingly,were refused admission.
Must have been priceless being in the hotel lobby when they arrived...... :-"
Just when I thought our chance had passed,you go and save the best for last.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by Svein66 » February 20, 2014, 9:40 pm

Zidane wrote:Slightly off topic but an amusing event as part of this saga......
The Shinawatra family own the SC Hotel,a 3 star in Bangkok.Someone from the PDRC made some reservations at the hotel which the reception unwittingly accepted.
It turned out these reservations were on behalf of some protesting rice farmers on their way to Bangkok :shock: .They turned up outside the hotel in their tractors and,not surprisingly,were refused admission.
Must have been priceless being in the hotel lobby when they arrived...... :-"
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... rved-rooms

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by jai yen yen » February 21, 2014, 7:17 am

Well, we have a corrupt Suthep trying to dislodge a supposedly corrupt government while a corrupt court backs the protesters rights to block government buildings and cause mayhem. The court said it was against the protesters rights to stop them. Protesting is one thing but what they are doing is out of line. In the end after a lot of people die there will eventually be another election and the majority will win again and put the the government of their choice in power. It will not be Sutheps people and this merry go round will start all over. Very sad.

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Will the ARMY step in again

Post by fdimike » February 21, 2014, 7:49 am

Apparently what they're doing is not out of line by the their constitution, laws and court rulings here in Thailand. Incidently, Suthep has never been convicted of anything to the best of my knowledge. Chalerm says he will appeal the ruling which is the normal thing to do and he may win or the apeal could be rejected. BTW I always find it interesting/amusing to hear people who disagree with a court ruling (here and throughout the world) complain that the court is corrupt or the judges don't know what they're doing or are too afraid to rule the other way.

The one thing that I've learned after being involved here in Thailand since 1970 is you cannot use western standards to evaluate (judge) what happens in Thailand as they are two very different "ball games".
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