Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

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jackspratt
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by jackspratt » November 6, 2019, 9:58 am

Sitting at Swampy airport typing this, having come through immigration without incident about an hour ago.

IO got a bit of a panicked look when he saw the AO visa, and spoke to the guy in the adjacent booth. That guy saw my re-entry permit, and told him to stamp me in until late July 2020. Insurance not mentioned. :D

Seems pretty apparent to me that proof of insurance will only be required when applying for an OA in your home country, or applying for an extension of the OA 12 months later in Thailand.

Which is logical.



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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 6, 2019, 1:24 pm

jackspratt wrote:
November 6, 2019, 9:58 am
Sitting at Swampy airport typing this, having come through immigration without incident about an hour ago.

IO got a bit of a panicked look when he saw the AO visa, and spoke to the guy in the adjacent booth. That guy saw my re-entry permit, and told him to stamp me in until late July 2020. Insurance not mentioned. :D

Seems pretty apparent to me that proof of insurance will only be required when applying for an OA in your home country, or applying for an extension of the OA 12 months later in Thailand.

Which is logical.
Almost certainly it will be required when you enter Thailand if you have had to have it when you apply for a visa or extension, as that information is in the police order and your permission to stay is governed by the period of your insurance if that is shorter than you would otherwise get.

But as you have now proved it is (almost certainly) not required if you did not need it for your extension.

Thank you for the report.

EDIT it is now becoming probable that if you are entering THAILAND using an OA VISA even though it you got it before October 31st that to get a 1year entry stamp you WILL BE REQUIRED to have insurance, most likely Thai insurance.

The reports are that you will only get 30 days if you don’t have insurance.

Please note a Visa is different from an extension of stay and reentry permit. They have different rules.
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on November 7, 2019, 6:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by retired » November 6, 2019, 10:15 pm

Are you saying that those who entered on an O-A visa prior to October 31st is exempt.
I know guys who are concerned and they obtained their OAs upto 10 years previous and been staying on extensions since. So is it the case Those who held an OA for some years before October will not require Insurance for their extensions as in the past?

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by Stantheman » November 7, 2019, 5:02 am

retired wrote:
November 6, 2019, 10:15 pm
Are you saying that those who entered on an O-A visa prior to October 31st is exempt.
I know guys who are concerned and they obtained their OAs upto 10 years previous and been staying on extensions since. So is it the case Those who held an OA for some years before October will not require Insurance for their extensions as in the past?
No what is being said is that an O-A Visa after 31 Oct OR anyone who goes to apply for an extension after 31 Oct to stay that comes from an O-A visa will be required to show the medical insurance, no matter that they have been here for years.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 7, 2019, 8:24 pm

Stantheman is correct

The cases to the best of anyone’s knowledge at the moment are as follows.

Enter with an OA Visa
1) You need insurance; with insurance you will get a permission to stay for the period of the insurance or 1 year whichever is shorter.

2) Without insurance you will probably get a 30 day stamp be told that you need to get insurance then leave thailand and return you will then be treated as case 1. (In every case so far people have been told that they MUST exist and return with their insurance it can not be done at an immigration office)


Enter with an extension of permission to stay that was granted before October 31 that originated from an OA Visa and a reentry permit you will very probably be stampeded in as usual with no insurance requirement. (No current reports of anything different)

Go to immigration to extend your permission to stay for retirement that originated from an OA Visa at any time in the past you will not get the extension if you do not have insurance.

So far there is no report either way concerning someone using the form to permit a foreign insurance policy to be accepted.

Of course the above information comes with the caveat that TIT & YMMV

There is a further possibility that is going to be tested soon and that is the case of someone who is exiting thailand who has a current Non-OA visa and buys a reentry permit then returns with both the reentry permit and a current Visa.
The question is then will the IO use the reentry and stamp them in for the permission to stay that the had and not require insurance or will they disregard the reentry permit and require insurance so only give 30 days permission to stay.
There is no answer to this and it’s probably not going to be definitive as 1 IO may have a different option to another.
The words Were added 8/11/19 19:00
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on November 8, 2019, 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by retired » November 8, 2019, 8:55 am

I can see the logic for the initial OA as you could gain entry into the country for upto 2 years without depositing any cash here, however those on extensions of stay have to have the sufficient funds, and since the recent rule change (if using cash in the bank) to keep 400k in your account for the majority of the year rising to 800k before and after the extension, one would think that the 400k could be used to cover the 400k they require in insurance, was this their initial thought?
The question has yet to be answered what about those unable to get insurance due to age, pre conditions or just too expensive, initially it was said that 450k in the bank would cover this but nothing since.
As we all know premiums will shoot up after 65yrs of age and even when paid they will if possible find an excuse not to pay out.
The authorities made a big play on expats not paying their health bill, yet the hospitals claim its tourists who come and leave the country with ease whilst the majority of expats just return to their Thai homes.
I guess it's a case of wait and see but little thought has been given to this and then to make it retrospect for those who entered on a OA years before seems illogical when those who entered on a Non O or even a Tourist and changed to gain an extension remain exempt.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 8, 2019, 12:12 pm

retired wrote:
November 8, 2019, 8:55 am
I can see the logic for the initial OA as you could gain entry into the country for upto 2 years without depositing any cash here, however those on extensions of stay have to have the sufficient funds, and since the recent rule change (if using cash in the bank) to keep 400k in your account for the majority of the year rising to 800k before and after the extension, one would think that the 400k could be used to cover the 400k they require in insurance, was this their initial thought?
The question has yet to be answered what about those unable to get insurance due to age, pre conditions or just too expensive, initially it was said that 450k in the bank would cover this but nothing since.
As we all know premiums will shoot up after 65yrs of age and even when paid they will if possible find an excuse not to pay out.
The authorities made a big play on expats not paying their health bill, yet the hospitals claim its tourists who come and leave the country with ease whilst the majority of expats just return to their Thai homes.
I guess it's a case of wait and see but little thought has been given to this and then to make it retrospect for those who entered on a OA years before seems illogical when those who entered on a Non O or even a Tourist and changed to gain an extension remain exempt.
Humm here you are bringing logic (something that is often absent or unknown in THAILAND) into the picture.

While there was talk of a non insurance bank deposit it is not in the police order.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by AA Ins Broker » November 8, 2019, 1:47 pm

Warning to people on a NON OA leaving Thailand for a Holiday.

Clients went on a short Holiday. They arrived back in Bangkok and entry was refused by immigration because they could not show a Thai Health Insurance Policy.
They did have a good insurance from their home country and, on top of that, even travel insurance. This was all refused.

Their present NON OA would expire in April next Year.

In the end they could only enter Thailand on a tourist visa.
According to our Clients, immigration stopped quite a lot of people for the same issue.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by Bandung_Dero » November 8, 2019, 2:51 pm

jackspratt wrote:
November 6, 2019, 9:58 am
Sitting at Swampy airport typing this, having come through immigration without incident about an hour ago.

IO got a bit of a panicked look when he saw the AO visa, and spoke to the guy in the adjacent booth. That guy saw my re-entry permit, and told him to stamp me in until late July 2020. Insurance not mentioned. :D

Seems pretty apparent to me that proof of insurance will only be required when applying for an OA in your home country, or applying for an extension of the OA 12 months later in Thailand.

Which is logical.
OK Jack, what's your plan going forward - Go offshore and get a Non Imm "O" for whatever time limit then extend as "Retirement"? Oh, silly me! The hoops could have fallen in any direction come mid 2020.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by jackspratt » November 8, 2019, 4:15 pm

When I return to Perth prior to July 2020, I will not bother getting re-entry permit.

That will mean my current O-A will be dead, and I can apply for a new O from the Perth consulate. Hopefully Thai Immigration will not include insurance requirements for O visas before then. [-o<

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by fantom » November 8, 2019, 5:13 pm

Welcome back, Jack. Today I did my 90 day report (2 days late, but no charge if not more than 1 week overdue!) and then spoke to the young lady in the last booth about medical insurance. She said that I would need it to get a further extension of stay based on my OA visa, but suggested that, if I did not want to buy insurance, I should attend a few days before my current extension expires and apply for an O visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen. Would need photos, map, copies of marriage cert., wife's id, passport, blue book, my bank book etc, letter from bank confirming minimum THB 400,000. So that is what I intend to do (in June 2020), and will keep you informed. Tom.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 8, 2019, 6:31 pm

fantom wrote:
November 8, 2019, 5:13 pm
Welcome back, Jack. Today I did my 90 day report (2 days late, but no charge if not more than 1 week overdue!) and then spoke to the young lady in the last booth about medical insurance. She said that I would need it to get a further extension of stay based on my OA visa, but suggested that, if I did not want to buy insurance, I should attend a few days before my current extension expires and apply for an O visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen. Would need photos, map, copies of marriage cert., wife's id, passport, blue book, my bank book etc, letter from bank confirming minimum THB 400,000. So that is what I intend to do (in June 2020), and will keep you informed. Tom.
This is unusual and possibly a miscommunication.

You can change the reason for an extension with no difficulty at the time you do your next extension. The requirements look to be those to change the reason.

The current changed rules are specifically applying to extensions for 2.22 (retirement) for people who started their extensions with an OA.

Some offices are saying that they will apply the insurance rules for any extension that originated from an Non-OA including a marriage extension.

It may well be that Udon immigration is not applying the insurance requirement to extensions under rule 2.18 that started with a Non-OA.

Immigration offices can never change a visa status, the only way to do that is to get a new visa.

There is a procedure for an immigration office to issue a Non-O Visa although that has (up to now) only been done for those who have entered Visa Exempt or with one of the short term Visas [the reason for this is to permit the money in the bank to be seasoned] it has a few other conditions. AFIK This has never been given to anyone who has a long extension.
It involves two applications to immigration as after issuing the visa, which is immediately marked as used, you need to return to immigration in 2 to 3 months to apply for a 1 year extension.

So the question is are you actually going to get a new Non-O Visa or are you going to change the reason for extension to marriage
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 8, 2019, 6:45 pm

AA Ins Broker wrote:
November 8, 2019, 1:47 pm
Warning to people on a NON OA leaving Thailand for a Holiday.

Clients went on a short Holiday. They arrived back in Bangkok and entry was refused by immigration because they could not show a Thai Health Insurance Policy.
They did have a good insurance from their home country and, on top of that, even travel insurance. This was all refused.

Their present NON OA would expire in April next Year.

In the end they could only enter Thailand on a tourist visa.
According to our Clients, immigration stopped quite a lot of people for the same issue.
This is consistent with the information I posted yesterday.

They almost certainly did not enter on a tourist visa, immigration can not issue tourist visas, but were given a Visa Exempt Entry

They will have been given the opportunity to purchase insurance on the spot and when they refused given a Visa Exempt 30 days.

To activate their Non-OA and get a 1 year permission to stay they will have to purchase insurance that is one of the accepted Thai insurance policies, leave Thailand within 30 days and return with the insurance. They might possibly be able to get the foreign insurance form accepted if they have it

There are no reports of anyone entering with a foreign insurance with the foreign insurance form and getting a regular 1 year or insurance period stamp. This does not mean that the form is being refused, it just means that nobody has posted success or failure.

It is early days.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by fantom » November 9, 2019, 10:05 am

My wife was with me and participated in the discussion (in Thai as well as English), so a miscommunication was quite likely. Perhaps the IO believed that we had married recently, rather than seven years ago.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 9, 2019, 10:36 am

fantom wrote:
November 9, 2019, 10:05 am
My wife was with me and participated in the discussion (in Thai as well as English), so a miscommunication was quite likely. Perhaps the IO believed that we had married recently, rather than seven years ago.
So far it sounds very likely that the situation is that Udon immigration will be applying the insurance requirement only for extensions (from an OA) for retirement.

The wording in the police order is slightly ambiguous on this point. Other immigration offices are talking the stance that it applies to all extensions from an OA.

If Udon is restricting the insurance to extensions for retirement then when you got married would be irrelevant. There are people who have swapped reasons 2 or more times depending on what happened to be most convenient at the time.

If anyone has had an extension that originated with an OA and applies for a new extension (or has applied for one this month) based on;
1) 2.18 (In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse's children))
2) or 2.19 (In the case of being a family member of a Thai resident (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse's children))
It will be helpful if you would post the immigration office that you went to and if you did or did not need insurance.


NB At this point advice given is less important it's only applications that have been accepted that are important, as the advice is changing, may not be the requirement at application and is different for different immigration offices.

Usually 2.18 is the marriage and 2.19 is parents or (under 20 YO) children
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on November 9, 2019, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by jackspratt » November 9, 2019, 1:32 pm

Oh dear ..... this is now getting messy.

Reports on TV today of 2 people on pre-Oct 31 O-A visas being stamped in for 12 months at Swampy, without any discussion about insurance.

](*,)

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 9, 2019, 1:33 pm

As of today 9/11 there are at least 3 reports of existing OA visa holders not being required to buy insurance on entry and being stamped in for the full year.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by jackspratt » November 9, 2019, 1:36 pm

fantom wrote:
November 8, 2019, 5:13 pm
....... She said that I would need it to get a further extension of stay based on my OA visa, but suggested that, if I did not want to buy insurance, I should attend a few days before my current extension expires and apply for an O visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen.........
I would be getting a second opinion from Udon Immigration on this Tom - and get it well before a few days prior to when your next application is due.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by saint » November 9, 2019, 2:29 pm

Jeez , is there any end to this saga ? He said this , they said that !!!!
The insurance brokers must be having a field day .

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by RLTrader » November 9, 2019, 2:58 pm

Got this yesterday.

Message for U.S. Citizen: New Health Insurance Requirement for Long-Stay Visa Applicants (November 8, 2019)
Screen Shot 2019-11-09 at 14.54.34.png

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