IMPORTANT information for ALL falangs and Members

Post by **Doc** » June 9, 2007, 2:57 am

Effective this date, the Thai government is starting to go around and checking entertainment places, restaurants and every place else that falangs may gather or get together. Those that are going around are legitimate government employees that speak good to excellent English. I emphasize that for a reason: No more saying "I don't understand" or having your Thai Wife or Girlfriend step in and speak for you. No longer can that be an excuse... at least with this group that is going around.

What is the impact on falangs? Simply this: They want to see your passport. Not a perfect color copy of it - but the actual passport. You can give them any reason you want to for not having the passport with you - and they are quick to remind you that you are in Thailand and it is Thai Law that you produce your passport when requested to do so.

Why is the passport so important? The boys that I spoke with tonight had a file folder about 3/4 inch thick full of picutes and passport information about falangs that are wanted in their home countries for any number of different crimes - no doubt pedos being the number one. If they can compare the passport with the information in their file - then you are GONE.

The man that I spoke with tonight told me that he had spent 2 years in Michigan - and that he had to follow Michigan Laws and US Laws - so therefore it was my obligation or duty to follow Thai laws to the letter. Hard to argue with that type of logic when presented to me by the officer...

Yes, Thailand is changing. Despite what some here might say, I would say that it is more of an end to the era of "see no evil - say no evil." This is NOT an active campaign against falangs. This is NOT part of Thailand being less falang friendly. This is Thailand deciding to enforce the laws that are already on the books to make sure that only quality people live here.

On a side note - even the police are starting to crack down on falangs. You can - possibly - get a warning the first time. Second time, for something somewhat major - something that would put you in jail in your home country - more than likely, you will go to the Monkey House and then face deportation.

To avoid problems - carry your passport with you - or have it readily accessable. When it gets close to the legal closing time (1:00 AM) - get your self on the way home. But be careful with that one too - there are plans in the works to set up traffic stops as well. Here in Thailand - 50mg of alcohol in your blood / breath is classified as "drunk driving." For Thais - and that is all that they have run the tests on to my knowledge - that comes out to about 4 small beers - or 2 large beers. No idea about spirits, or with larger people. Naturally, metabolism, last time you ate, body size, etc can affect the reading - so make your own judgments.

So - everyone here has been warned. Up to you now.

Post by **tawan3** » June 9, 2007, 3:40 am

That is what happens when you teach asians logic.

Post by **Bump** » June 9, 2007, 9:08 am

Hmm!!!! Well not doubt that is exactly what the law say and definetly enforceable. Personally I'll adapt although for me to be at a entertainment venue is unusual, but hey even I have my moments. I just hate carrying it with the thought of losing it.

Good heads up Doc.

Thanks

Post by **slaphappy** » June 9, 2007, 10:17 am

Doc,the signs are visible outside some of the establishments in soi cowboy and have been here for over 6 months now,just another law that has never been acted upon by the police,there is a fine 2000 baht if original not in your possession.Pattaya started all this with the police clamping down and of course with the original passport they can determine how many people are overstaying.
Personally it will cause mayhem in Bangkok and anyway the way bars have prewarning of visits,expect a surge of falang heading for asoke bts/metro

Post by **cookie** » June 9, 2007, 12:31 pm

Do I have to wear a davids cross?????

Post by **lee** » June 9, 2007, 12:36 pm

Thanks for the information.

I usually carry a colour photocopy of my passport together with my photo ID driving licence.

I'll keep my passport in the glove box from now on.

Post by **papaguido** » June 9, 2007, 5:42 pm

It could be worse....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... 122052&hl=

Post by **ttom** » June 9, 2007, 8:21 pm

That’s common practice in most countries around the globe. I can live with that.
Most of Europe doesn’t check just on alcohol but drugs at the same time.

I am not sure that’s a real loss to Thailand if some “wanted / unwanted” people are getting a free flight home.

If some bad boy misbehaved somewhere else, why should be a good boy in Thailand?
The Thai people are quite able to create trouble enough for same self, they don’t need additionally foreigners for that,

Post by **Doc** » June 9, 2007, 10:20 pm

I personally don't have a problem with them asking to see my passport. It is a bit like being asked in a hotel late at night to see your room key when you enter the lobby - to make sure that you are a guest in the hotel.

We are guests in this country - and therefore, as non-citizens, we are not going to be afforded the same "rights" as citizens of this country. Because I choose to live here, I have willingly agreed to abide by whatever requirements they put on their guests. As a result, some of the rantings on Thai Visa about loss of civil rights, Hitler, etc. etc. are just people blowing a lot of hot air.

When I posted the initial thread - it was not complaining about the practice. It was merely to advise eveyone what was going on here in Udon now - so that everyone could be prepared. With that warning goes the second piece of advice: Make sure that all of your ducks are in a row - that all of your "i's" are dotted and your "t's" are crossed. If they are checking passports - they are certainly going to be checking your visa status - and your last check in date.

I will check on Monday to see if a copy of one's current passport and visa stamp - if in color, will be acceptable as opposed to being required to carry and produce the passport. I think that all of us can be somewhat concerned about the possibility of a theft of our passport. When I have a definitive answer I will pass it on.

Post by **wazza** » June 9, 2007, 11:50 pm

Doc

would they accept a colour stamped copy, if the stamp was from immigration AEK, that way we could carry a legitimate copy signed by the correct agency having checked the original. I would be happy to line up for 2 hours to get that.

Might be worth chasing / asking

yes it will only be valid till the date of expiry of what ever visa the holder is using to stay in Thailand, but it would save the issues of replacement passports if lost.

Australian Passports can only be produced in Oz, so when u go to Sathorn Road or Vietianne with your police report, details, etc, it will take u approx 10 days to get a new replacement, then off to Thai Immigration with your Oz letter etc to get the the visa added to it.

Post by **Techland** » June 9, 2007, 11:51 pm

Doc wrote:I will check on Monday to see if a copy of one's current passport and visa stamp - if in color, will be acceptable as opposed to being required to carry and produce the passport. I think that all of us can be somewhat concerned about the possibility of a theft of our passport. When I have a definitive answer I will pass it on.

Even better than a color copy is a certified color copy. I mean that someone who has the legal power stamps and signs the copy to be a real copy of the original. Can you please ask about this - and who would be the one to do this?

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » June 10, 2007, 12:03 am

I do not see any problem with the enforcement of this regulation, and if it rids Thailand of some undesireables that is all to the good. Moreover, it should not be a burden to carry one's passport although one can see than in a moment of excitement at some entertainment spot, the thing could get misplaced, overlooked, lost, whatever. Doc makes some solid points.

Post by **rickfarang** » June 10, 2007, 12:54 am

As a practical matter, many passports won't hold up to being carried around in a pocket day-in and day-out. Less than a year of intermittently carrying my passport when I lived in Bangkok pretty much wore my passport out -requiring replacement. Inconvenient and expensive.

Since the police are not empowered to enforce immigration law (though that does not stop them), they should (in theory) be satisfied by any formal means of identification. Such as a driving Thai license.

BTW, Doc, you said (wrote) the legal alcohol limit is 4 mg. Is that 4 mg per liter? (That would make it about 0.5%!)

Post by **Doc** » June 10, 2007, 11:03 am

Rick: The original statement was: Here in Thailand - 50mg of alcohol in your blood / breath is classified as "drunk driving."

How that works out in actual percentages, I have no idea. I would presume that they have adopted the same standards as the rest of the world.

Whilst the police are not specifically authorized to enforce immigration law, they are authorized to investigate for prima facie evidence of immigration violations and then detain and individual for immigration authorities.

laphanphon · Post by **laphanphon** » June 10, 2007, 11:14 am

if you have one of those bank book plastic holders, american passports fit nicely in them and helps prolong passport. i usually don't carry mine except while out and about on vacation, and have yet to be asked for it, as the license works fine. guessing that is going to change. oh well, nice to see them working anyway.

Post by **wokkawombat** » June 10, 2007, 12:03 pm

Source www.driveandstayalive.com

BAC
Countries

Religion
The five listed countries currently believed to have a zero blood-alcohol limit primarily or specifically for reasons of religion are: Bahrain, Mali, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, & UAE -- these are NOT included in any DSA totals or calculations showing what proportion of countries fall into certain BAC bands

Zero
Armenia, Azerbaijan, Czech Republic, Hungary, Jordan, Kyrgyzstan, Romania, Slovak Republic, (Uzbekistan) (10 countries)

0.01%
Albania

0.02%
Estonia*, Norway, Poland, (Sudan), Sweden (5)

0.03%
China, Georgia*, India, Japan, Moldova, Turkmenistan (6)

0.04%
Belarus, Lithuania* (2)

0.05%

Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Macedonia, Monaco, Namibia, Netherlands, Portugal*, Russia*, Serbia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Yugoslavia (35)

0.06%
Peru*

0.08%
Belize, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Ecuador, Fiji, Ghana, Ireland, Jamaica, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, Singapore, Tanzania, Uganda, United Kingdom, USA, Zimbabwe (21)

0.10%
Possibly Swaziland, but see 0.15%, below. [Many American states had this limit but Delaware was the last to sign up for a 0.08% limit, in July 2004.]

0.15%
Swaziland* (1) (82 applicable countries, excluding religion-mandated zeros)

Post by **jingjai** » June 10, 2007, 1:20 pm

Our passport #'s are on our official Thai drivers license. I wonder if that, plus a copy of one's passport will suffice?

Post by **rickfarang** » June 10, 2007, 1:51 pm

Doc wrote: (some text removed)
Whilst the police are not specifically authorized to enforce immigration law, they are authorized to investigate for prima facie evidence of immigration violations and then detain and individual for immigration authorities.

Ok Doc, not having any info to the contrary. I remember reading on the Chaing Mai immigration web board (back when it was operating) that only immigration officers could demand to see my passport. But as I said, I don't think it would be profitable to argue with a policeman.

In your original post in this topic, you said "You can give them any reason you want to for not having the passport with you - and they are quick to remind you that you are in Thailand and it is Thai Law that you produce your passport when requested to do so. "

That leaves me wondering whether they would haul somebody off for not having his passport on him, or just subject him to a lecture.

I hope that if anybody encounters any trouble in this area that he or she will post it on this forum, but in the mean time, I think its best to heed your warning, and I appreciate your posting the information.

I have heard that we are required to carry our passports many times, and I still remember some crackdowns in Bangkok a couple of years ago, as well as receiving a first hand account of the condominium raid in Pattaya a couple of weeks ago, so it is clear that the police believe that it is the law, but I would dearly like to be informed officially of the necessity. I do not recall every seeing the requirement to carry a passport in any Thai government publication or on any official website. Can anybody remember seeing such a warning?

BTW, wokkawombat, Thank you for posting a comprehensive listing of legal Blood Alcohol levels.

Post by **cookie** » June 10, 2007, 1:55 pm

Jingjai:

Our passport #'s are on our official Thai drivers license. I wonder if that, plus a copy of one's passport will suffice?

Jingjai, you are 100% right.
Our passport number is on our official thai drivers license.
Should be more than enough.
An easy computer check can proof that the drivers license and the passport number are not fake.
So finished the problem of loosing or even worse somebody stealing your original passport.
I hope that they filter out farang criminals that are hiding in Thailand; but normal farangs, the majority, should not be the victim of this.
Normally criminals should be filtered out at the borders,
In order to check criminals that are hiding a long time inside Thailand, do a check as explained by Doc at the opening of this post, no problem, except for the original passport!!!
But a driving license with passport no on it should be ok.
This together with a photocopy of the passport with visa should be ok.
When I loose my original official thai driving license it will cost me 100 baht or so to replace it, no problem,
But when I loose my original passport it will cost me much more.
When my passport would be stolen, I can not imagine what the cost could be....
So stop this nonsense, be practical, and simply accept an original thai driving license or a photocopy of the passport with a copy of the visa.

doc:

Rick: The original statement was: Here in Thailand - 50mg of alcohol in your blood / breath is classified as "drunk driving."

How that works out in actual percentages, I have no idea. I would presume that they have adopted the same standards as the rest of the world.

Doc, I have to say that some time ago I really thought it was best for me to stop with making "presumptions" in this country!!

Especially when I presume something concerning the government, immigration laws, rules,....

Post by **Bump** » June 10, 2007, 3:23 pm

Look guys, Doc was kind enough to pass this information on, he didn't have to. Debating it with him will change nothing, he didn; make the law nor is he enforcing it. It is what it is and until we are told there may be another acceptable method. We can only assume that this is how it is. Leaves only two chooses follow the law or try to circumvent it. That is a personal decesion.

I don't want to loose my passport either.

Lets not kill the messenger.

IMPORTANT information for ALL falangs and Members

IMPORTANT information for ALL falangs and Members

Nothing wrong with this

Just a thought