The reality of Heroin

[ULICK MC GEE]

Least we forget the reailty of HEROIN.

[jackspratt]

Guy in the middle looks perfectly normal to me (if you disregard the needle hanging out of his arm).

Arm in the 3rd photo looks like that of a heroin abuser.

So who do you reckon may be more representative of the entire heroin-taking population?

[Aardvark]

Not sure about that third one Jack. Too many lesions all over the place instead of over a main vien. I'm no expert of course but this looks more like a disease such as Leprosy or something , wazza where are you

[jingjai]

Agree with both JS & AA. Guy in the middle looks your garden variety heroin user.
IMO. The real problem with heroin and other opiates is that they are illegal. For most people it is the lifestyle of being an addict that leads to the problems, IE: crime, jail, disease, etc.
Remember, I said heroin. I not talking about cocaine, yaba, methamphetamine, and all the other ----, those are debilitating drugs and ought to remain illegal.
Legalize heroin and marijuana, IMO.
I've met down and out heroin junkies whose sole purpose in life is to get their next "fix", by any means possible.
However, I've had occasion to meet heroin addicts who live "normal" functional lifestyles, of course they had well paying jobs that allowed them to spend 100's of dollars per day on their habits.

I have a feeling this thread is going to get a lot of play.

[saint]

i agree with you J J on legalising grass , but not on heroin . but i think cocaine is a much less addictive drug than heroin , and is a far cleaner . many people i know in the U K will quit hapilly use cocaine at weekends and continue with a normal working life through the week . heroin on the other hand is very addictive and most people in the know would not use it under any circumstances . whether injecting or smoking .

[virginprune]

regarding photo #3...injecting abuse can lead to these abcesses...many addicts completely lose their veins and then have to skin pop..this practice can lead to this condition. As for the legalities, I do believe that heroin should be made available to addicts, apart from curbing the lifestyle issues the main health issues would be addressed ie clean drugs, fresh works and is far cheaper to the health authorities than providing methodone...which is just as addictive as heroin but far harder to come off...also most addicts with a methodone scrip will use street drugs as well as they do not get the hit they crave because it is usually only supplied as a linctus.
This is my conclusions on this contentious issue, which I came too after working for the drug and alcohol services...and unfortunately having an addict as a family member!

[aznyron]

Virgin who going to pay for it ? that issue which many people are concerned about remember this people can not hold a job even if they were offered one. I would give them a choice get sober stay sober & get job or face the gas chamber that would scare them SOBER

[jingjai]

i agree with you J J on legalising grass , but not on heroin . but i think cocaine is a much less addictive drug than heroin , and is a far cleaner . many people i know in the U K will quit hapilly use cocaine at weekends and continue with a normal working life through the week . heroin on the other hand is very addictive and most people in the know would not use it under any circumstances . whether injecting or smoking .

Your correct, most "normal" people would not use it...even if it is legalized. But, I'm not talking about "normal" people. I'm speaking of controlled legalization for those already addicted. Something similar to the methadone maintenance programs. One just can't walk into a methadone clinic and sign-up, no questions asked. One has to prove they are addicted.
Point being these people are already addicts. Very little chance of recovery. I'm not sure what the statistics are, but I would venture a guess, that 1 out of 1000 heroin addicts ever kick their habit fully.

Virgin who going to pay for it ?

Opiates are some of the least expensive to produce.
I was in a serious accident years ago. I was on a lot of medications for a few years. The least expensive, of the many different meds I was prescribed, were the opiate derivatives.
The opiate derivatives were cost less than the antibiotics, the tranquilizers, the blood thinners, the anti-inflammatory meds, the high blood pressure meds, etc., etc., etc.
So the question now becomes: is it gonna cost the government more money than they are already spending on law enforcement? on wasteful drug treatment centers? the aftermath of the street crime committed by these addicts? etc.?
From where I'm sitting, I saying give 'em their fvckin dope and let's concentrate on more important issues. IMO.

[Farang1]

Legalizing heron would sure give the poppy farmer and the Taliban in Afghanistan a boost to their economy.

[BobHelm]

Rather the opposite I would think Farang1.
As the poppies no longer would need to be grown in remote lawless areas I would imagine their trade would die overnight.
I understand Australia is already the world's top supplier of medical opiates from poppies grown there.

[Roy]

I have long been an advocate of legalising grass and controlling the free distribution of Heroin to addicts. Methadone merely makes the addict not feel so sick when not using Heroin, does nothing to combat the craving for a high and as previously stated is reportedly more addictive. There have been studies that suggest that Heroin in its pure state can be taken long term with little side effects, think about the Doctor's jacking themselves with Morphine, it's the crap it's cut with that does the harm.

So we legalise grass and control Heroin distribution what happens?

People who smoke grass tend not to start fights because they are to chilled out and often drink less so fewer alcohol related problems be they health or social.

The Heroin addicts have access to clean free drugs so the social problems that occur as a knock on effect of the addicts addiction cease.
The illegal supply business of both drugs are decimated overnight so the worlds governments save billions fighting it and terrorism funding is drastically reduced.

Man that's a bad idea

[jingjai]

There have been studies that suggest that Heroin in its pure state can be taken long term with little side effects, think about the Doctor's jacking themselves with Morphine, it's the crap it's cut with that does the harm.

=D> =D> =D>

Also the harm comes the lifestyle created by an addict having to get his "fix" by any means possible. That means if an addict has a choice between putting nourishment in their bodies or getting their dope. The dope wins. The dope wins for everything in their lives and in the lives of all around them.

The Heroin addicts have access to clean free drugs so the social problems that occur as a knock on effect of the addicts addiction cease.
The illegal supply business of both drugs are decimated overnight so the worlds governments save billions fighting it and terrorism funding is drastically reduced.

That says it all. Couldn't have said it better.

[jackspratt]

Thank you gentlemen, for a reasoned and sensible debate on this subject.

But I am not holding my breath that it will stay that way, after some of our posters from other time zones start to sign in - I am thinking of those around GMT

[laphanphon]

=D> =D> =D> =D> well said Roy =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> ok, since an old hobbyist of the past, not herioin, i was never that stupid....................but take the illegality of the drug away, and you solve the problems of the drug, most are no more dangerouse or much less dangerous than cigs/alcohol.

not only do you destoy a whole illegal industry, but free up the industry / legal system that waste too much time/money/manpower on a losing battle

[beer monkey]

The Heroin addicts have access to clean free drugs so the social problems that occur as a knock on effect of the addicts addiction cease.

Less Burglary's, Less Muggings, Less Shoplifting,Less Thefts from Cars/Garages/gardens/buisnesses, Less death...as well as the social problems.

Roy For PM...!!, will it ever be done (controlled and regulated and Roy making PM status)....Nahhhh.

[Farang1]

will it ever be done (controlled and regulated and Roy making PM status)....Nahhhh.

You're right, sir. "Fighting" drugs is a billion dollar business. Think of all the people that would be out of work if they legalized the trade.

[ULICK MC GEE]

I have to disagree with those advocating legalising class A substance's the flaw in this theory is all class A addict's started dabling on a small "recreactional"useage.Class A's are habit forming which turn's into a craving that as time goes by need more and more to satisfy,are you suggesting unlimited supply,if not the dealer's will still have customer's and related crime will continue.
Cocaine is more addictive then heroin,but because of the difference in class of user crime related to heroin is what make's it a more dangerous drug .

[jingjai]

...Class A's are habit forming which turn's into a craving that as time goes by need more and more to satisfy,are you suggesting unlimited supply...

Well why not? Increase the heroin addicts dosage as needed. That is what doctors do with terminal cancer patients.
IMO, most heroin addicts are terminal. The recovery rate for heroin addicts is about 16-20%.

...if not the dealer's will still have customer's and related crime will continue.

Not if the heroin addicts dosage is monitored and periodically increased by a licensed physician, and the heroin addict is supplied with a legal inexpensive heroin prescription.

In 1914, the U.S. passed the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Narcotics_Tax_Act
So for 95 years the country has been battling the problem. Overwhelming success , yeah?

I know there are some ex-law enforcement professionals on the forum. It would be good to get their perspective...

[ULICK MC GEE]

Addicition is an illness like any other and can be terminal or may also be treatable like any other.In order for the theory of controlled dispenceing to suceed,all addictive substance's would have to be included,ie,cocaine,crystalmeth,ya ba,speed,alcohol and nicotine,apart from nicotine anyperson with a serious addiction to the rest is not capable of holding down a steady job and free is the only inexspensive for the unemployed.Then you have the cost of treatment for side effect's of these drug's to the liver,heart,lung's and mental illness such as depression,violent rages,etc.
Robin Williams,Neil Young,Eric Clapton,Robbie Williams,Rolling Stones to name but a few are all recovering class A substance abuser's and prodouced some of their best work after kicking their habit,it would be intresting to hear their opinion on this theory.
IMHO it would be like throwing petrol on a fire.
"COCAINE IS GOD'S WAY OF TELLING YOU THAT YOU HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY" Robin Williams

[uncle tom]

Alcohol is different than drugs in many ways. Of the seven Americans who have won the Nobel prize for literature four of them--Sinclair Lewis, Eugene O'Neill, William Faulkner and Ernest Hemingway--were definitely alcoholic, while a fifth--John Steinbeck--drank to excess. The two Nobel winners who weren't alcoholics were Pearl Buck and Saul Bellow.
Other writers who were alcoholics were Edgar Allen Poe. Stephen Crane. Theodore Roethke. Herman Melville. Delmore Schwartz. Scott Fitzgerald, O Henry, Scott Fitzgerald, Stephen Crane, George Sterling, Maxwell Bodenheim, Sherwood Anderson, Hart Crane, Dylan Thomas and Joaquin Miller, the "frontier poet."

It seems that "alcohol" is the exciter of the "yes" function in man.

Sorry for getting off subject.