Working in Thailand. Language school

[EssexGaz]

It would be strange to believe that a course of a couple of weeks (even an excellent one) is at the same level as a university degree in education. It isn't, it's merely a certificate, and nowhere near a degree.

Just because someone can get a university degree in, lets say, Russian politics doesnt mean to say that they would make a good teacher

why the emphasis on a degree all the time??

I know people that have left university with a degree in engineering and dont even know what a philips screwdriver is!!!

degrees are just a way of oppressing the lower class!! - jobs for the boys culture!!!

[UdonExpat]

As a high school dropout who wanted to better himself, I attended, and after 8 years of on and off college attendance I finally got a bachelor's degree.

That degree opened many doors that were previously closed to me. It's easy to complain that the system oppresses the lower class, but they are the lower class because that's where they are. Advancement in life comes through effort, not complaining about how unfair it is. Life isn't fair. Get over it.

A degree shows that you're willing to put up with all the bullsh~t that goes with working. You had to do it to get the degree. It also indicates a level of intellegence that was high enough to get through the process. Is Phillip some kind of screw up?

Why would an employer hire some lower class person who doesn't have a track record of achievement. They want their business to be successful. That means employees who have demonstrated some ability to achieve.

There are very few good teachers. I can count the good ones I had as a student on just a few fingers. Most teachers, like students, are mediocre. I was a mediocre teacher, but I was still miles ahead of the students.

[EssexGaz]

It also indicates a level of intellegence that was high enough to get through the process. I

what process is that??

17 hours of tuition a week and 30 hours in the student union bar???

I believe that someone who puts themselves through a degree in a good subject be it later in life or straight out of college deserves to succeed, but I think that someone who goes through the motions and does a degree in something easy doesnt deserve to have the prestige that goes with it

why should an employer employ someone who has a piece of paper saying that "I am good at politics" and then employ them in a management role????

It should go on merit, not because you went to a university and learned to "conform"!!!

[UdonExpat]

The process is showing that you're smart enough and willing to play the game. It doesn't matter what you or I think of the game. It's the game. Conformity is one way to play the game. There are others.

Mastery requires learning a form (conforming). After learning the form it's possible to explore its modifications and, hopefully, improvements. This is true in any craft whether it requires a college degree or not.

I can't imagine what that easy degree might be. All of us are different and my easy subject may be another's bane, and their easy subject may be totally incomprehensible to me. Any degree requires discipline and demonstration of ability to use the subject matter.

It's extremely difficult to advance in management without good political skills. It's not only what you know and do, but who knows it, and wants to see you do it in a more responsible position.

There are many ways to gain merit. Becoming educated is only one. The Buddhists are big into merit.

[panick]

Gonna have to jump in 'ere
How many over you posters have actually done a T.E.F.L course? ( and I don't mean a 2wk stint in BKK with your certificate sent in the post )
I took mine some 14mnths ago here at http://textandtalk.kc-kk.com/index.htm I researched this course for about 1yr before I applied. The course i took was a 6 week intensive with finals in classrooms being adjudicated by Thai teachers with B.A's, M.A's and Doctorates!
Okay ... we can all speak English, and with a little revision we can remember the basic grammar ( no probs. we get time to prepare before the lesson! ) .... Can you still remember why you say " did " or " done " and what context you use it in? again, why is it " a " university but " an " umbrella? ...both start with a vowel but the article is different!
Back on track now ......
A good T.E.F.L. course teaches you HOW TO TEACH English in Thailand to Thai students NOT how to teach English ..... There's a BIG differance!!
You can have a degree in anything, even a Masters or Doctorate but it does'nt mean you can teach!

[Frankie 1]

Gonna have to jump in 'ere
How many over you posters have actually done a T.E.F.L course? ( and I don't mean a 2wk stint in BKK with your certificate sent in the post )
I took mine some 14mnths ago here at http://textandtalk.kc-kk.com/index.htm I researched this course for about 1yr before I applied. The course i took was a 6 week intensive with finals in classrooms being adjudicated by Thai teachers with B.A's, M.A's and Doctorates!
Okay ... we can all speak English, and with a little revision we can remember the basic grammar ( no probs. we get time to prepare before the lesson! ) .... Can you still remember why you say " did " or " done " and what context you use it in? again, why is it " a " university but " an " umbrella? ...both start with a vowel but the article is different!
Back on track now ......
A good T.E.F.L. course teaches you HOW TO TEACH English in Thailand to Thai students NOT how to teach English ..... There's a BIG differance!!

I did my TEFL at Text & Talk (the main school in Bkk), their coursebooks were excellent, but none of the teacher trainers had a degree (in any subject).

To know why you say 'did' or 'done' doesn't mean you can teach it. Having a degree in English doesn't make you a teacher either. And a TEFL course doesn't make you a teacher, it's only a course, it gives you a chance to survive in a classroom, that's it.

You can have a degree in anything, even a Masters or Doctorate but it does'nt mean you can teach!

That's why they invented the degree in education, so you can really learn how to teach, TESOL as well as TEFL, and at a higher level. If you want to become a professional at what you do, why not go to school to learn how to be that professional in the first place? e.g., do you want to let a doctor who only did a survival course in surgery, operate on you in the hospital?

[panick]

To know why you say 'did' or 'done' doesn't mean you can teach it

Cool! All the Thais' will say " I done it before! "

none of the teacher trainers had a degree (in any subject).

Maybe you should have looked a little bit more at the courses that were avaliable elsewhere?

That's why they invented the degree in education,

A degree only proves that you have the ability to learn ..... Try passing the same exams 3yrs after!

All I'm trying to say is ...... A GOOD T.E.F.L. course will give you an insight into the techniques required to teach English here in Thailand ..... the rest is up to you!

[Frankie 1]

All I'm trying to say is ...... A GOOD T.E.F.L. course will give you an insight into the techniques required to teach English here in Thailand ..... the rest is up to you!

I've met an English teacher in Bangkok a while ago. He told me the same story. A couple of weeks later he got a job at a vocational secondary school. He already quit the job after trying to teach there for only one week. He told me the kids were terrible, teaching there was hell and to avoid vocational schools as the plague.

Yes he completed the good TEFL course, but never learned how to deal with difficult children. Education and being a teacher is more than only learning how to plan a PPP lesson and how to explain a couple of rules.

[panick]

Damn right!

[UdonExpat]

In 2002, I took one of those 2 week courses at ECC in Bangkok. I had many years of non-profit and corporate teaching experience and wanted to refresh myself and see what they might offer for Thai specific teaching. I have a BA in Human Services with an emphasis on individual and organizational process.

I had researched the various schools offering certificates and had compared what they claimed to offer. I also had a relative who was an administrator at a prestigious university in Bangkok. With my background he thought I was wasting my 2 weeks, but I did it anyway.

Teaching kids isn't something I'd ever consider doing. It's not in my skill set. College and Corporate students, no problem. One of my most interesting classes was of advanced nursing students. They were intelligent, inquisitive, and wanted to learn. Rare among Thai students.

Most Thai students have little interest in learning and even in college it can get to be more like crowd control than education. it's certainly not for everyone.

[Treeg]

You can have a degree in anything, even a Masters or Doctorate but it does'nt mean you can teach!

Fully agree, I have been teaching in the past in the Netherlands, and what amazed me the most about it was how little it actually has to do with 'knowledge' of the subject and how much it's all about presentation. You don't need to be an expert on the subject you teach, the most important thing is you need to know how to present it to the class, how to 'get the message through'.

[Frankie 1]

You can have a degree in anything, even a Masters or Doctorate but it does'nt mean you can teach!

Fully agree, I have been teaching in the past in the Netherlands, and what amazed me the most about it was how little it actually has to do with 'knowledge' of the subject and how much it's all about presentation. You don't need to be an expert on the subject you teach, the most important thing is you need to know how to present it to the class, how to 'get the message through'.

Almost correct. There are some new rules concerning education in the European Union. They call it competence based learning/teaching. There are three main aspects: knowledge, skills and behaviour. (It's a bit like learning how to drive a car, you have to know the traffic rules, you need the skills to drive and how to behave in traffic).

So it's not only about knowledge, but knowledge is part of the package. Skills and behaviour are equally important when working with people (and especially when working with adolescents). You also need to learn how to be a mentor/coach/manager/educator/organisor/referee/psychologist etc. All part of being a competent teacher. Although in the past things used to be different, these days we actually have to be able to teach before we get our degree.

[Frankie 1]

How many over you posters have actually done a T.E.F.L course?...

...You can have a degree in anything, even a Masters or Doctorate but it does'nt mean you can teach!

Let me return the question. How many of you actually know anything about the content of a degree in education. What are your opinions based on? Some vague assumptions or facts, and which facts or first hand experience? What is your experience with degrees in education, how do you know the curriculum is not good enough, which part of the curriculum, based on what, referring to which degree and from which university, and attained how long ago?

[michaelrickman]

Hello Mcvallie,

I do not know if anyone has answered your questions, so this may be old news for you. There is an organization called ajarn.com which has a great deal about teaching English as a second language in Thailand. Check it out and let me know if you need any more info. My e-mail address is [email protected].

Mike Rickman