Coincidence ?

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Coincidence ?

Post by Bump » January 11, 2007, 12:35 pm

In a conversation with a friend yesterday about budgets, my friend pointed out that when Bush was Governor of Texas he bankrupted Texas. Well I didn't follow much about Bush in those days. So I thought I would do a search and see what did happen. I used Texas George Bush Budget.

Interestingly when I looked at positive sights they popped up instantly, tried three different sites the were obviously negative, got a gateway time out on each one such as the one listed below.
Negative Spin NegSpin George W. Bush has done his best to rid Texas schools of a ... His home state now faces a budget shortfall up to $750 million.
Maybe it is the internet problem I have no idea.



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Re: Coincidence ?

Post by JimboPSM » January 11, 2007, 6:51 pm

ray23 wrote:In a conversation with a friend yesterday about budgets, my friend pointed out that when Bush was Governor of Texas he bankrupted Texas. Well I didn't follow much about Bush in those days. So I thought I would do a search and see what did happen. I used Texas George Bush Budget.

Interestingly when I looked at positive sights they popped up instantly, tried three different sites the were obviously negative, got a gateway time out on each one such as the one listed below.
Negative Spin NegSpin George W. Bush has done his best to rid Texas schools of a ... His home state now faces a budget shortfall up to $750 million.
Maybe it is the internet problem I have no idea.
Looks like bankrupting Texas was probably good practice for him in bankrupting the US - as I have said before he presides over the most financially incompetent administration ever seen in the US.

His only achiecement so far has been to remove Jimmy Carter from his previous position as the worst President in living memory.

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Post by Bump » January 11, 2007, 7:07 pm

I once went to a adminstrative training meeting given by the retired Sheriff of Riverside County, we were each required to bring our own check books. His opening was if you can't balance that you don't stand a chance with a multi million dollar budget :lol:

The principle was you can't spend more then you have. Guess George should have went as well.

Did he BK Texas I don't know, but it would seem he certainly did several personal businesses.

Simplistic view I know but certainly a good thought

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Post by Bump » January 12, 2007, 10:56 pm

Yep George should have went to that training with me :shock:
Bush Breaks 150-Year History of Higher U.S. Taxes in Wartime

By Brian Faler

Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) -- It was once considered Americans' patriotic duty: enduring extraordinary tax increases in wartime to help finance the fight.

Not today. Iraq is the only major U.S. conflict, except for the 1846-48 Mexican-American War, in which citizens haven't been asked to make a special financial sacrifice. President George W. Bush opposes tax increases, even as the costs escalate far beyond predictions and he calls for more troops.

``It's a reflection of either a lack of public support for the war or perhaps an unwillingness of the Bush administration'' to test its popularity, said Elliot Brownlee, an economic historian retired from the University of California, Santa Barbara.

The Bush administration, which says any tax increase would harm the economy, is financing the Iraq conflict with borrowed money. That spares policy makers and pro-war politicians from riling voters already soured on the war.

Arizona Republican Senator John McCain said that while he's ``not averse to asking for more sacrifice,'' he rejects a tax increase, even one on wealthy Americans, to help pay for the war.

``I'm not sure what the point would be,'' said McCain, who supports Bush's troop buildup and may run for president in 2008. ``I would ask them to make other sacrifices, but I'm not sure I would want to raise their taxes just because we're in a war,'' he said in an interview last week.

Payback With Interest

At the same time, using borrowed money pushes the cost onto future taxpayers, who will have to pay it back with interest.

The war ``is being fought on our children's shoulders,'' said Judd Gregg, the top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee. ``You're probably talking about around $750 billion that is going to be spent on this war that will end up not being funded.''

Bush is likely to ask Congress next month for $100 billion more in emergency war spending this year. That would bring fiscal 2007 spending on the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan to $170 billion, and push spending on the war on terror to more than $600 billion. The federal debt increased by $2.8 trillion from 2001 to 2006.

The cost in Iraq has been growing rapidly and now runs about $8 billion per month, the independent Iraq Study Group estimated last month. The final tally, the group said, could reach $2 trillion once all the bills for caring for disabled veterans and replacing military equipment are counted. That would be more than 30 times what the White House estimated ahead of the March 2003 invasion.

Early Estimate

In December 2002, Bush's then-budget director Mitch Daniels said a war with Iraq would cost close to the $61 billion spent on the 1991 war in the Persian Gulf. In April 2003, Vice President Dick Cheney predicted Iraq's oil output would generate an annual income of $20 billion, which could be used to offset the costs of a post-war recovery.

Bush announced on Jan. 10 that the U.S. will send more than 20,000 additional troops to Iraq to help quell sectarian violence. The administration estimates the cost of the additional troops at $5.6 billion in fiscal 2007.

While wars almost always cost more than expected, historians say it's unusual for the administration not to seek additional revenues to cover the costs.

Individual states raised taxes to finance the Revolutionary War. The young federal government increased a variety of tariffs and taxes on consumer goods to pay for the War of 1812. President Abraham Lincoln imposed a temporary income tax, the first of its kind, to help finance the Civil War.

Top Rate

By World War I, the income tax was a permanent fixture in American life; President Woodrow Wilson increased the top individual tax rate from 7 percent to 77 percent, while subjecting all corporations to an ``excess profits'' tax.

During World War II, President Franklin D. Roosevelt increased the number of Americans subject to the income tax by tenfold, from fewer than 4 million in 1939 to more than 42 million in 1945. He also raised the top rate to 94 percent; the top rate is currently 35 percent.

Americans also lent their government money, through purchases of Liberty Bonds in World War I and War Bonds in World War II. During the Korean War, President Harry Truman imposed excess-profit taxes and increased individual income and corporate taxes.

President Lyndon Johnson attempted to buck the trend, refusing for years to seek a tax increase to pay for the Vietnam War. He eventually sought -- and received -- a 10 percent war surcharge on individual and corporate tax liabilities, which helped balance the budget in 1969.

A Smaller Share

To be sure, the Iraq war has placed a much smaller burden on the economy than previous major wars, giving the administration more flexibility when it comes to financing it.

Military spending during World War II reached 37.9 percent of the nation's economy in 1944, according to the Congressional Research Service. In 1968, during the height of the Vietnam War, military outlays reached 9.4 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. By contrast, military spending during the current war reached 4 percent of GDP in 2005, according to CRS.

Whether for economic or patriotic reasons, most presidents in wartime have linked the need for sacrifice at home with the sacrifices made by U.S. troops on the battlefield. Johnson, like war presidents before him, portrayed the Vietnam surcharge as the least the public could do in wartime.

Perilous Skies

``The inconveniences this demand imposes are small when measured against the contribution of a Marine on patrol in a sweltering jungle or an airman flying through perilous skies or a soldier 10,000 miles from home, waiting to join his outfit on the line,'' Johnson said in a Aug. 3, 1967 message to Congress.

Americans in wartime generally were encouraged to make personal sacrifices to help support the soldiers. Many in World War II followed advice from the Agriculture Department and grew their own fruits and vegetables -- personal backyard ``Victory Gardens'' to leave more of the nation's produce for the troops. Gasoline, meat and other goods were rationed and millions of people were drafted into service.

The Bush administration, along with Congress, hasn't cut other spending to help offset the cost of the war, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service. By contrast, by the end of World War II, non-military expenditures were cut to less than half their pre-war levels, CRS said.

Non-military spending was cut by nearly as much during the Korean conflict -- from 7.8 percent of the nation's economy in 1949 to 4.9 percent in 1953. During Iraq, non-military spending has grown from 14.4 percent of the economy in 2002 to an estimated 14.7 percent in 2006.

`Deficit-Financed'

``The increase in military outlays was not financed through higher tax revenues or lower non-military outlays,'' the CRS said of the Iraq war. ``Therefore the war can be thought to be entirely deficit-financed.''

While some lawmakers express their discontent with the way the Iraq conflict has been financed, few have called for a surcharge to pay for it, or used it as a justification to propose other tax increases.

``Some way has got to be found to pay for this war,'' said Senator Kent Conrad, a North Dakota Democrat who heads the budget committee. ``The president's plan is to continue to put it on the charge card. That's no longer a viable strategy.''

To contact the reporters on this story: Brian Faler in Washington at [email protected]

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Post by JimboPSM » January 13, 2007, 12:33 am

About the only thing I have a minor disagreement with in the above is
The federal debt increased by $2.8 trillion from 2001 to 2006.
It is slightly understated at $2.8 trillion - according to my figures it should be $2.971 trillion :wink:

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Post by AZscott » January 13, 2007, 7:36 am

Thankfully we only have 2 more years with him as president. The worst president in the USA has veer had... with the lowest approval rating EVER. He is unintelligent, a war monger and a religious right- wing wacko. He makes America look bad.

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Post by Doug » January 13, 2007, 9:35 am

Could'nt agree more. A friend of mine describes Bush as an "oxygen thief".
I am not American and I don't know about anyone else, but, I was totally amazed that he was voted in for a second term. You USA ctizens have to take some responsibility for that.

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Post by muscle » January 13, 2007, 10:25 am

Doug wrote:Could'nt agree more. A friend of mine describes Bush as an "oxygen thief".
I am not American and I don't know about anyone else, but, I was totally amazed that he was voted in for a second term. You USA ctizens have to take some responsibility for that.
So, other than voting against him, twice, tell me what this expat citizen could have done to keep him out of office or why I should hake any responsibility for him. Non-Americans often fail to recognize the size and diversity of the US as they come from some place so small that they can drive through most of it in a day (Aussies excluded in this-just include your populated areas). I can't tell where you are from, but no doubt your country has elected some criminals as have most.
Bush is one of the reasons I am an expat. I do not want to live under his totalitarian regime.
This "surge" is no more than a lame duck attempt to wring what little money there is left in the US budget out and into the coffers of his defense contractor buddies before he leaves office.
What happened to the search for Bin Laden? If he did not die from his kidney disease, he is in a safehouse being guarded by some of the best mercs the Bush and Bin Laden families could find. He has made them both billions of dollars.
Have you heard a peep out of Rummy since he was deposed? No, Field Marshal Rummy is off enjoying the wealth kicked back to him for promoting this war.
Didn't General (then Secretary) Powell urge higher troop levels years ago? Isn't it the reason he fought with Rummy so much that he finally resigned? Sorry, rhetorical question, the answer of course is yes to both questions.
As a US citizen, I am no more responsibile for the actions of a politican I opposed than any Soviet citizen is responsible for the actions of Stalin.
The US is being decimated by Bush and his gang of robber-thug Beltway Bandits. There is a lot more damage they can do in two years. The worst is yet to come.

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Post by Doug » January 13, 2007, 10:50 am

Guilty as charged Muscle. I think one could just about walk East to West in a day in Scotland.

Applaud you for your stand point. No offence intended.

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Post by muscle » January 13, 2007, 1:28 pm

No offense taken. You may be able to walk the bredth of Scotland in a day but it could take me a week to get out of some of those fine Glascow pubs ;) I flew over a couple of times while stationed in Germany and had a hard time leaving.
Bush has put all English speaking nations at risk. Sorry for dragging all the rest of you into this with us but I did what I could to prevent it. The Hatch Act prohibits Federal employees or military members from participating in politics. All I could do was vote, and then, eventually, vote with my feet.
Dick (Darth Vader) Cheney is the Dr Strangelove of this whole dismal regime. If there was ever an argument for dividing the US up into 50 different countries and abandoning the Federal government, these two have made a firm case for it.

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Post by BobHelm » January 13, 2007, 4:15 pm

muscle wrote: Bush has put all English speaking nations at risk. Sorry for dragging all the rest of you into this with us but I did what I could to prevent it.
You don't need to apologise to us Brits.
Blairs' whole hearted support for Bush on Iraq has put Britain right in the front line. A real friend would have asked George what the plan was once Saddam had been defeated rather than just send people to die...

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Post by JimboPSM » January 13, 2007, 6:40 pm

BobHelm wrote:
muscle wrote: Bush has put all English speaking nations at risk. Sorry for dragging all the rest of you into this with us but I did what I could to prevent it.
You don't need to apologise to us Brits.
Blairs' whole hearted support for Bush on Iraq has put Britain right in the front line. A real friend would have asked George what the plan was once Saddam had been defeated rather than just send people to die...
A real friend would not lie, collude and conspire in the provision of fake evidence to support the start of a war :(

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Post by jetdoc » January 13, 2007, 8:05 pm

It's interesting when you listen to FOX they keep talking about winning. If memory serves me correctly we (they) went in to illuminate WMD's, there were non, surprise, surprise so at that point we WON, but nooo they keep changing the definition of winning --- like illuminating Sedam, but then it changes again to establishing a stable democratic government, not a very real probability. Go figure!!! What will they come up with next??

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Re: Coincidence ?

Post by ttom » January 13, 2007, 9:23 pm

[quote="ray23"]In a conversation with a friend yesterday about budgets, my friend pointed out that when Bush was Governor of Texas he bankrupted Texas. Well I didn't follow much about Bush in those days. So I thought I would do a search and see what did happen. I used Texas George Bush Budget.

Interestingly when I looked at positive sights they popped up instantly, tried three different sites the were obviously negative, got a gateway time out on each one such as the one listed below.

[quote]Negative Spin NegSpin George W. Bush has done his best to rid Texas schools of a ... His home state now faces a budget shortfall up to $750 million.[/quote]

Maybe it is the internet problem I have no idea.[/quote]

Who cares about own wallet as long as money can be printed for own use.

This is an old article. And there are many more more availible. Have a look please:

Published on Sunday, February 8, 2004 by The Los Angeles Times
Bush Family Values: War, Wealth, Oil
Four generations have created an unsavory web of links that could prove an election-year Achilles' heel for the president

by Kevin Phillips


Four generations have created an unsavory web of links that could prove an election-year Achilles' heel for the president.

Despite February polls showing President Bush losing his early reelection lead, he's still the favorite. No modern president running unopposed in his party's primaries and caucuses has ever lost in November.

But there may be a key to undoing that precedent. The two Bush presidencies are so closely linked, especially over Iraq, that the 43rd can't be understood apart from the 41st. Beyond that, for a full portrait of what the Bushes are about, we must return to the family's emergence on the national scene in the early 20th century.

This four-generation evolution of the Bushes involves multiple links that could become Bush's election-year Achilles' heel — if a clever and tough 2004 Democratic opponent can punch and slice at them. Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry, the clear Democratic front-runner, could be best positioned to do so. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, he investigated the Iran-Contra and Bank of Credit and Commerce International scandals, both of which touched George H.W. Bush's Saudi, Iraqi and Middle Eastern arms-deal entanglements.

Washington lawyer Jack Blum, the ace investigator for Kerry's subcommittee back then, is said to be advising him now, which could be meaningful. Ironically, the Bush family's century of involvement in oil, armaments and global intrigue has never been at the center of the national debate since the Bushes starting running for president in 1980.

The reason? Insufficient public knowledge. The only Bush biography published before George H.W. Bush won election in 1988 was a puff job written by a former press secretary, and the biographies of George W. Bush in 2000 barely mentioned his forefathers. Millions of Republicans who have loyally voted for Bushes in three presidential elections simply have no idea. Here are circumstances and biases especially worth noting.

The Bushes and the military-industrial complex: George H. Walker and Samuel Prescott Bush were the dynasty's founding fathers during the years of and after World War I. Walker, a St. Louis financier, made his mark in corporate reorganizations and war contracts. By 1919, he was enlisted by railroad heir W. Averell Harriman to be president of Wall Street-based WA Harriman, which invested in oil, shipping, aviation and manganese, partly in Russia and Germany, during the 1920s. Sam Bush, the current president's other great-grandfather, ran an Ohio company, Buckeye Steel Castings, that produced armaments. In 1917, he went to Washington to head the small arms, ammunition and ordnance section of the federal War Industries Board. Both men were present at the emergence of what became the U.S. military-industrial complex.

Prescott Bush, the Connecticut senator and grandfather of the current president, had some German corporate ties at the outbreak of World War II, but the better yardstick of his connections was his directorships of companies involved in U.S. war production. Dresser Industries, for example, produced the incendiary bombs dropped on Tokyo and made gaseous diffusion pumps for the atomic bomb project. George H.W. Bush later worked for Dresser's oil-services businesses. Then, as CIA director, vice president and president, one of his priorities was the U.S. weapons trade and secret arms deals with Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the moujahedeen in Afghanistan.

In his 1961 farewell address, President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about how "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." That complex's recent mega-leap to power came under George H.W. Bush and even more under George W. Bush — with the post-9/11 expansion of the military and creation of the Department of Homeland Security. But armaments and arms deals seem to have been in the Bushes' blood for nearly a century.

Oil: The Bushes' ties to John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil go back 100 years, when Rockefeller made Buckeye Steel Castings wildly successful by convincing railroads that carried their oil to buy heavy equipment from Buckeye. George H. Walker helped refurbish the Soviet oil industry in the 1920s, and Prescott Bush acquired experience in the international oil business as a 22-year director of Dresser Industries. George H.W. Bush, in turn, worked for Dresser and ran his own offshore oil-drilling business, Zapata Offshore. George W. Bush mostly raised money from investors for oil businesses that failed. Currently, the family's oil focus is principally in the Middle East.

Enron is another family connection. The company's Kenneth L. Lay made his first connections with George H.W. Bush in the early 1980s when the latter was working on energy deregulation. When Bush became president in 1989, he gave Lay two prominent international roles: membership on the President's Export Council and the task of planning for a G-7 summit in Houston. Lay parlayed that exposure into new business overseas and clout with Washington agencies. Family favoritism soon followed. When Bush senior lost the 1992 election, Lay picked up with son George W., first in Texas and then as a top contributor to Bush's 2000 presidential campaign. Before Enron imploded in late 2001, it had more influence in a new administration than any other corporation in memory.

The intelligence community: Bushes and Walkers have been involved with the intelligence community since World War I. The importance of Sam Bush's wartime munitions-regulating role was obvious. During the 1920s, when George H. Walker was doing a lot of business in Russia and Germany, he became a director of the American International Corporation, formed during the war for purposes of overseas investment and intelligence-gathering. Prescott Bush's pre-1941 corporate and banking contacts with Germany, sensationalized on many Internet sites, appear to have been passed along to officials in government and intelligence circles.

George H.W. Bush may have had CIA connections before the agency's unsuccessful Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961. A number of published sources suggest that Zapata Offshore was a CIA front long before he went on to become director of Central Intelligence in 1976. As for George W. Bush, his limited ties are said to have come through investments in, and buyouts of, several of his oil businesses by CIA- and BCCI-connected firms and individuals.

Top 1% economics: Over four generations, the Bush family has been involved with more than 20 securities firms, banks, brokerage houses and investment management firms, ranging from Wall Street giants like Brown Brothers Harriman and E.F. Hutton to small firms like J. Bush & Co. and Riggs Investment Management Corp. This relentless record of handling money for rich people has bred a vocational hauteur. In their eyes, the economic top 1% of Americans are the ones who count. Investors and their inheritors are favored — a good explanation of why George W. Bush has cut taxes on both dividends and estates, where most of the benefit goes to the top 1%. Over the course of George H.W. Bush's career, he was close to a number of the merger kings and leveraged-buyout specialists of the 1980s who came from Oklahoma and Texas: T. Boone Pickens, Henry Kravis and Hugh Liedtke. "Little guy" economics has almost no niche in the Bush economic worldview.

Debt and deficits: Whenever a Bush is president, private debt and government deficits seem to grow. Middle- and low-income Americans borrow to offset the income squeeze of recessions. The hallmark of Bush economics during both presidencies has been favoritism toward capital over workers. Federal budget deficits have soared because of a combination of upper-bracket tax favors, middle-income job shrinkage, big federal spending to hype election-year economic growth, huge defense outlays and overseas military spending for the wars in Iraq and elsewhere. Imperial hubris costs a lot of money.

Politically, over four generations the Bush past has been prologue. Despite George W. Bush's new good ol' boy image — cowboy boots and born-again ties to the religious right — his basic tendencies go in the same directions — oil, crony capitalism, top 1% economics and military-industrial-establishment loyalties — that the previous Bush and Walker generations have traveled. The old biases and loyalties seem ineradicable; so, too, for old grudges, like the two-generation fixation on Saddam Hussein.

The presidency is an old Bush ambition. As early as the 1940s, Barbara Bush talked to friends about becoming first lady. The current president's grandfather, Prescott Bush, told his wife before he retired in 1962 that he wished he'd been president. By 1963, George W. Bush, a student at Andover Academy, was talking about his own father's desire to be president.

In short, the word "dynasty" fits the Bushes all too well. They have had plenty of time to sort out their ambitions, loyalties and intentions. They know what they're in politics for — although this year may pose a new problem. The American people are also starting to find out.

Kevin Phillips' new book, just published, is "American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush."

Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times

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Post by Bump » January 14, 2007, 7:37 am

Great find well done.

Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the the tree after all.

Let me say that I'm proud to be an Amerian to bad Bush was born in the same country.

I have never believe that what happened when Papa was president and now that Jr. holds the office is an accident. There is a very small group of people getting even richer from Iraq, just as they did in Viewtnam. It sure isn't the grunt on the line.

Truth is there is a very powerful incentive for some not to leave Iraq.

Ameria is still fundemantally sound it is definelty mismanaged, but I believe strong enough to recover. But it is going to take years.

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Post by BKKSTAN » January 14, 2007, 8:52 am

:lol: :lol: Millions and millions of dollars spent during the elections,opposition looking for anything to give them advantage,but Bush got reelected!
I guess the investigators didn't know that all the experts,lived in Udon :roll:

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Post by Bump » January 14, 2007, 9:02 am

And surronding areas :lol: . No one else has the time to really look

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Post by ctm » January 15, 2007, 9:03 pm

ttom,

That's just the tip of the iceberg with the Bush family.

Where's Jeb? He has a very shady past going back at least to involvement with Iran-Contra related fraud, drug running, and arms dealing. Or Neil? Biggest S&L failure in US history. Or the other son's dealings in China.

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Post by uncle tom » January 16, 2007, 8:46 am

The whole Bush family scares me. Although the internet is full of references to Marvin Bush's role providing security for the world Trade Center. Here is what I found on Wikipedia.


"Marvin Bush's company Stratasec, who provided security at New York City's World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C., and to United Airlines between 1995 and 2001, was backed by a private Kuwaiti-American investment firm with ties to a brother of President Bush and the Bush family, according to records obtained by the American Reporter. Two planes hijacked on Sept. 11, 2001 were United Airlines planes, and another took off from Dulles International Airport; two crashed into the World Trade Center. Marvin Bush's contract for the WTC complex lasted until 9/11/01."

laphanphon

Post by laphanphon » January 16, 2007, 9:38 am

nothing would surprise. as here, who are the beneficiaries of the new year eve bombing, the present ruling junta, now taking more control and tarnishing thai rak party.

sadly, and this doesn't take much of a stretch or paranoid conspiracy mind to figure out, who would be the beneficiaries of a terrorist attack on usa, followed by more instability in middle east with higher oil prices and an invasion into another country, requiring the purchase of more armorments.

it is indeed scary. kind of makes all those conspiracy movie a little bit more real. you would think, nobody would do something like that and kill so maney people, but billions of dollars can be one hell of a motivator.

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