Income Letter

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Stantheman
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Stantheman » November 15, 2018, 9:04 pm

Hopefully the change to IAT format requirements will not effect my use of wire transfers from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank that I send to help support wife's mother. Guess I will find out in April



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Re: Income Letter

Post by tutone » November 16, 2018, 8:37 am

Stantheman wrote:
November 15, 2018, 9:04 pm
Hopefully the change to IAT format requirements will not effect my use of wire transfers from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank that I send to help support wife's mother. Guess I will find out in April
I have sent enquiries to both the N.Y. branch of Bangkok Bank and the financial group from where my funds originate. I will post any worthwhile information when and if I get any responses.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by LoneTraveler » November 16, 2018, 4:36 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
November 15, 2018, 12:11 pm
LoneTraveler wrote:
November 15, 2018, 11:44 am
Forgot to mention, I hope that the issue of the April 01 2019 format change from ACH to ICH is brought to the attention of the Bangkok Immigration Department from the powers-that-be in the various Embassy's in Bangkok because after all it is an important consideration for retirees that Bangkok Bank NY will no longer accept ACH fund transfers and many banks will not make the change to send out transfers in the new ICH format. This pertains only for America citizens.
Just to clarify....Bangkok Bank recently sent a letter to all it's customers to let them know that after April 2019 they will accept US domestic ACH transfer requests intended to be sent for further credit to a bank in Thailand ONLY if the sending bank makes the request using International ACH Transactions (IAT) coding.

BKB also advised all US Citizens that currently have their monthly Social Security funds direct deposited into their local Thai banks by ACH transfer through BKB, NY, that they would have to notify the Social Security Administration that those direct deposit and transfer instructions would also have to meet the IAT coding guidelines. Those guidelines are as follows:

The NACHA rules require Bangkok Bank’s New York branch, which serves as an intermediary, to ensure that payments that we receive and that are transmitted to the account of a beneficiary in another country are appropriately coded as IATs (International ACH Transactions). To do this we need to obtain information as described below for your transactions to conform to the IAT format:

1. Your name and physical address in Thailand;
2. Your bank account number and the name and address of your Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand; and
3. The 9-digit routing number of Bangkok Bank New York branch, which acts as the intermediary in the transaction, which is 026008691

I don't use the SSA direct deposit method, but I have a friend that does. He has tried to contact SSA with 4 emails and 4 phone calls to the US and to Manila and so far no one has been able to help him with these required changes. He called Bangkok Bank head office in Bangkok and asked them how to make those changes through SSA, and no one had a clue there either.

My guess is there's going to be a lot of Americans in Thailand that are going to be in a world of poop come April 2019.
I answered all the above questions when I applied for a direct deposit 12 years ago. What has changed?

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Re: Income Letter

Post by LoneTraveler » November 16, 2018, 4:42 pm

Brian Davis wrote:
November 14, 2018, 10:15 am
I have had a reply from the British Embassy to my 'moan' letter. I was hoping it might nail a few things down, but it really only tells us what we know already. The vagueness, at present, remains and we have to rely on Immigration for accurate, clear information. Oh hell.

Dear Mr Davis
Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay in replying.
I am happy to hear that you have found our service useful in the past.
The British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues an income/pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application or extension of stay. The Thai authorities confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which we are unable to do. We would refer such requests to the issuing authority. Therefore, the current letter issued by us does not fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.
In order to apply for a marriage or retirement visa or apply for an extension, British Nationals will now be required to have the minimum funds required for their visa in a Thai bank account. This is not a change in the requirement on the Immigration side; the lump sums and monthly amounts remain the same. The difference from January 2019 is that British Nationals will now have to prove their income by having these minimum funds in a Thai bank account where they can be verified by Thai Immigration. In fact, Immigration’s own website makes no mention of a letter from an embassy being used as proof of income.
As the requirements for a Thai visa are dealt with by the Thai Immigration department we are unable to comment on what income they will accept. However, Immigration’s own website states the minimum funds required for each visa type. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/s ... ension_all services 22 and 18
For a retirement visa

• Must be at least 50 years old

• Must have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the application for a visa or

• A monthly income of at least 65,000 THB

• Further info: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Requirements for a marriage visa are:

• Must be legally married to a Thai national

• Must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year

• Further info: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18
It is therefore advisable to speak to Thai Immigration directly. You can contact the Immigration Call Centre on 1178 and they will be able to answer all Thai immigration questions.
The Ministry Of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and Thai Immigration in Bangkok are aware of the changes being made by the British Embassy. It is the responsibility of the MFA to broadcast changes to their own Immigration offices around the country to ensure all changes to rules and regulations are being followed.
Thai Law states that the income/pension letter supplied by Embassies in Thailand is valid for 6 months. However, it is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer whether they will grant you your visa/extension.

Kind Regards
Stacey
Pro Consul
British Embassy Bangkok
I was in Udon Immigration today The Officer who did my extension last month stated that the current requirements are 65000 baht each month or 800000 3 months prior to renewal of extension. Sounded pretty clear to me. Now I have to work on getting funds here due to the transition from ACH fund transfer to IAT for SS funds.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by semperfiguy » November 16, 2018, 5:09 pm

[/quote]
I was in Udon Immigration today The Officer who did my extension last month stated that the current requirements are 65000 baht each month or 800000 3 months prior to renewal of extension. Sounded pretty clear to me. Now I have to work on getting funds here due to the transition from ACH fund transfer to IAT for SS funds.
[/quote]


Actually, it's just not that cut and dry for many of us because what the Immigration Officer told you is not well-defined and that leaves many questions unanswered.

For the 800,000 in Thai Baht or its equivalent:

1. Will they accept a fixed deposit account or only a savings account?
2. Can the money be in a USD Foreign Currency Deposit Account, and if so can that be a fixed deposit account or only a savings account?
3. Do we have to demonstrate movement in the account?
4. My fixed deposit account has no bank book attached to it...only a certificate. The language used by Immigration says they want to see a bank book, so will they disqualify my account on that basis?

For the 65,000 in Thai Baht Monthly:

1. Do we have to demonstrate an equal amount coming into a Thai Baht account from our home country each month?
2. After our pensions or Social Security benefits are deposited monthly into our US bank accounts, can we bring the required amounts in say two yearly transfers to Thailand?
3. Without the Income Affidavits how are we to prove our monthly income?

I could think of a dozen more scenarios and until we get more clarity from Udon Immigration, going for an annual extension of stay is going to be a nerve racking crap shoot. Therein lies the reason for all the anxiety and frustration that many of us are feeling. If one walked into the Immigration Office to question these various scenarios we would never get anyone to actually give us any concrete answers, and if we make it too confusing for them, all we can expect is the typical "no can do" because they will refuse to actually do any critical thinking. This feeling of helplessness is very disconcerting!
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm

I do wonder if we'll ever receive any further written guidance from Immigration and even if yes, it's never going to be comprehensive enough to answer all situations. I agree that it's really not good enough that we may have to hope word of mouth through forums like this proves reliable and doesn't turn out differently for whatever reason on the day you go.

With the doubt and that it gives me some peace of mind, I'm going ahead on the basis of meeting all possible options for a marriage extension a) Embassy income letter - UK embassy confirmed in Thai Law it's valid for 6 months, but no confirmation yet Immigration will still accept it;b) I've moved 400,000 lump from my wife's account back to mine(savings a/c) - just in time for 3 months (or is it only two required?) before extension renewal due. I MAY be questioned about where the money has come from, but our ONLY income is from UK pensions, so it ORIGINATED abroad and c) the regular monthly income into my account, which has always exceeded 40,000 baht per month. I'm still not certain here that regular income is an acceptable method, rather than lump sum ONLY, for a marriage extension. So there's extra time and expense in organising that, fee for Embassy, fee for the bank in obtaining all the backup letters/statements.

Sorry if I'm thrashing this guys, but was there any mention of the "income letter" on your visit to Immigration, Lone Traveler? After all, if ok, this would give many of us some breathing space to sort out alternative arrangements.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by tamada » November 16, 2018, 10:18 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
November 16, 2018, 5:09 pm
Actually, it's just not that cut and dry for many of us because what the Immigration Officer told you is not well-defined and that leaves many questions unanswered.

For the 800,000 in Thai Baht or its equivalent:

1. Will they accept a fixed deposit account or only a savings account?
2. Can the money be in a USD Foreign Currency Deposit Account, and if so can that be a fixed deposit account or only a savings account?
3. Do we have to demonstrate movement in the account?
4. My fixed deposit account has no bank book attached to it...only a certificate. The language used by Immigration says they want to see a bank book, so will they disqualify my account on that basis?

For the 65,000 in Thai Baht Monthly:

1. Do we have to demonstrate an equal amount coming into a Thai Baht account from our home country each month?
2. After our pensions or Social Security benefits are deposited monthly into our US bank accounts, can we bring the required amounts in say two yearly transfers to Thailand?
3. Without the Income Affidavits how are we to prove our monthly income?

I could think of a dozen more scenarios and until we get more clarity from Udon Immigration, going for an annual extension of stay is going to be a nerve racking crap shoot. Therein lies the reason for all the anxiety and frustration that many of us are feeling. If one walked into the Immigration Office to question these various scenarios we would never get anyone to actually give us any concrete answers, and if we make it too confusing for them, all we can expect is the typical "no can do" because they will refuse to actually do any critical thinking. This feeling of helplessness is very disconcerting!
I am not at all aware of where you live or your personal mobility but with your list of questions that are posted in response to another forum member's personal face-to-face interactions with Udon Immigration, you really should make time to visit personally and get it from the horses mouth so to speak. Just because a member on this or another forum commented that the Immigration office in another jurisdiction from Udon accepted term deposits, dual accounts and foreign-currency accounts in a local bank last year or last week means bugger all really.

AFAIK, right now, the 400k or 800k seasoned in a Thai bank account in the applicants name is currently the ONLY acceptable provenance of funds AFTER the UK, US, AU and DK embassies have stopped the 'income letter' service.

Everyone's situation is unique and your 'approved' method of financial providence will ultimately depend on who you talk to on any specific day at Udon Immigration.

YMMV.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by tamada » November 16, 2018, 10:52 pm

Brian Davis wrote:
November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm
I do wonder if we'll ever receive any further written guidance from Immigration and even if yes, it's never going to be comprehensive enough to answer all situations. I agree that it's really not good enough that we may have to hope word of mouth through forums like this proves reliable and doesn't turn out differently for whatever reason on the day you go.

With the doubt and that it gives me some peace of mind, I'm going ahead on the basis of meeting all possible options for a marriage extension a) Embassy income letter - UK embassy confirmed in Thai Law it's valid for 6 months, but no confirmation yet Immigration will still accept it;b) I've moved 400,000 lump from my wife's account back to mine(savings a/c) - just in time for 3 months (or is it only two required?) before extension renewal due. I MAY be questioned about where the money has come from, but our ONLY income is from UK pensions, so it ORIGINATED abroad and c) the regular monthly income into my account, which has always exceeded 40,000 baht per month. I'm still not certain here that regular income is an acceptable method, rather than lump sum ONLY, for a marriage extension. So there's extra time and expense in organising that, fee for Embassy, fee for the bank in obtaining all the backup letters/statements.

Sorry if I'm thrashing this guys, but was there any mention of the "income letter" on your visit to Immigration, Lone Traveler? After all, if ok, this would give many of us some breathing space to sort out alternative arrangements.
I totally disagree with this 'word of mouth' fallacy. What one IO in (for example) Chiang Mai accepts from a (for example) German means absolutely bugger all to what an IO in Udon will accept from you. One universal rule that we should have picked up on after a cumulative several hundred years living in Thailand is that there is NO universal rule in Thailand.

Thai Immigration are not obligated to make any change of policy because some foreign embassies and consulates have decided that they cannot fulfill what Thai Immigration feels is the responsibility of these foreign embassies and consulates.

FORGET ABOUT PROOF OF INCOME THAT RESIDES IN A NON-THAI DOMICILED BANK ACCOUNT. They do not want to know unless your 'income letter' comes from the embassy that is still mutually recognized as VERIFYING any stated foreign-sourced or foreign domiciled income to the satisfaction of Thai Immigration

Right now, it's the lump sum, either 400k or 800k in your own Thai account, seasoned appropriately.

There is a possibility that Thai Immigration may offer more precise guidance on the 65k/month 'regular income' in your own Thai bank account but I would strongly advise against holding one's breath on this.

The 'breathing space' for those that somehow fall in a gap between the end of 'income letters' and their next extension filing (hard to work out how that gap really exists unless one is Danish) is the UK, US and AU embassies have stated their 'income letters' will be accepted by Thai Immigration up to end of June 2019. This allows over half-a-year for those worst-case scenarios to get the 400k or 800k in a Thai account in their name and seasoned appropriately.

Maybe some guys who are married will have to revert to a marriage extension. Maybe some married guys will need to get a 1-year, multi-entry Non-O from Savanakhet and budget for 3 or 4 border hops or regional flights each year. Some may need to go home and get a O-A from home (where available) or otherwise be able to show fiscal fortitude at a Thai Embassy back home to get the 'retirement' O.

Others may just have to leave since Immigration have been hyper active on the overstayers for maybe 18 months now.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 17, 2018, 2:34 am

Brian Davis wrote:
November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm

a) Embassy income letter - UK embassy confirmed in Thai Law it's valid for 6 months, but no confirmation yet Immigration will still accept it.
There has been nobody thai I have heard of in Udon who has ever had an income letter refused if it is under 6 months, so either stop worrying or go and ask

But You have 400,000 Baht in a savings account in your name for 3 months, So it doesn't matter for your application. you don't need an embassy letter
Brian Davis wrote:
November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm
b) I've moved 400,000 lump from my wife's account back to mine(savings a/c) - just in time for 3 months (or is it only two required?) before extension renewal due. I MAY be questioned about where the money has come from, but our ONLY income is from UK pensions, so it ORIGINATED abroad and
You have 400,000 Baht in a savings account in your name for 3 months, stop worrying full stop. You meet the money in te bank test YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING ELSE. Udon immigration does not care where the money came from
Brian Davis wrote:
November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm
c) the regular monthly income into my account, which has always exceeded 40,000 baht per month. I'm still not certain here that regular income is an acceptable method, rather than lump sum ONLY, for a marriage extension. So there's extra time and expense in organising that, fee for Embassy, fee for the bank in obtaining all the backup letters/statements.
You have the money in the bank. The bank will supply the needed documents (200 Baht) when you ask the day you apply for your extension. Forget about the embassy you don't need anything else

For you it is irrelevant if immigration will continue to accept an income method after June next year. Because you have the money in the bank you don't need anything else.

And for an extension based on marriage there are (until the letters stop) 2 ways

EITHER Money in the bank, 400,000

OR an income of 40,000 or more per month (with supporting documents) I'm not going into the. Details as tamada has just explained them.

If you give immigration both you are going to confuse them, waste their time, waste your time, waste your money on something they don't need and don't want and will be giving back to you anyway.

For an extension based on marriage in Udon the 400,000 only needs 2 months seasoning.
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 17, 2018, 6:52 am

tamada wrote:
November 16, 2018, 10:52 pm
...... the UK, US and AU embassies have stated their 'income letters' will be accepted by Thai Immigration up to end of June 2019.
Have they? Please cut and paste where you've seen this. Whilst I've seen reference to the income letter being valid in Thai law for 6 months, I've seen nothing to confirm that in the 'shake up' that Immigration will still accept in from February, 2019, when this is supposed to kick in.
It probably will be ok, but at the same time I'm told not to believe Embassies, it's what Immigration says that counts! You can't have it both ways. :lol:
Of course, I plan to call in again soon and ask personally. But, then again, is what any Officer says absolutely reliable? If it was in writing from Immigration, I'd be able to wave a paper at them.
sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 17, 2018, 2:34 am

a) Embassy income letter .....
There has been nobody thai I have heard of in Udon who has ever had an income letter refused if it is under 6 months...,
I appreciate that but, as I say, this involves change. Immigration might conclude they do not want income letters full stop.

b) ....You have 400,000 Baht in a savings account in your name for 3 months ..... Udon immigration does not care where the money came from.

Well, I won't search the topic again, but weren't there ongoing arguments about such? How are you so sure, sometimewoodworker? I'm been here a while, I'm not entirely wet behind the ears. :D I know how Immigration has messed me and others about in the past.


c) the regular monthly income into my account

Again, I think I'm correct to write that this topic includes doubts about an income method (for a marriage extension) ever being acceptable/tested at Immigration, in that applicants were actually showing bank statements etc. The Embassy letter, as it were, did the job for us and was easier. When applicants provided bank information, it was reflecting a lump sum. So, this I feel would be a new development for Immigration?

For an extension based on marriage in Udon the 400,000 only needs 2 months seasoning.

Yeah, ok, perhaps this is from the Thai act/law paperwork, because I don't recall ever seeing a guidance leaflet from Immigration on marriage extension applications, only retirement.

I appreciate your contribution sometimewoodworker, partly to give me and, I hope others, peace of mind. But there are things of which you appear certain, which I'm not - or,at least, won't be unless I see it in black and white from Immigration, which will probably never happen. Let's be honest, I'm not the first or last who finds Immigration, how can I put it, lacking?
I'm bright enough (some might disagree :lol: ) not to want to duplicate, waste time/money and I'll be delighted if you're correct and I can hand over my income letter (the simplest method for me) in February as normal.Let's just say I'n covering myself. At the moment, I'm not 100% sure that at my renewal in February e.g. an income letter might no longer be accepted, Immigration might not be happy with an explanation where my lump sum has come from and an application based on regular income into my Thai bank "confuses them", because I don't think they've done it before. Then , after 16 years of going to Immigration, paperwork galore, I'm having to fart about with a short-term approval, whilst I put together something which does satisfy them.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by mak » November 17, 2018, 7:28 am

Wire transfers using the SWIFT service are not affected by the BBL NY ACH/IAT dilemma.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by tutone » November 17, 2018, 7:35 am

tutone wrote:
November 16, 2018, 8:37 am
Stantheman wrote:
November 15, 2018, 9:04 pm
Hopefully the change to IAT format requirements will not effect my use of wire transfers from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank that I send to help support wife's mother. Guess I will find out in April
I have sent enquiries to both the N.Y. branch of Bangkok Bank and the financial group from where my funds originate. I will post any worthwhile information when and if I get any responses.
A response by my financial investment company said that wire transfers are not affected by these rules. They only apply to ACH (Automated Clearing House) electronic transfers.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by Lone Star » November 17, 2018, 8:36 am

As has been pointed out so often by so many: Keep checking for yourself with your local immigration office.

Your bank can't tell you what immigration may or may not accept -- only what transactions the bank will complete. Your country's embassy won't tell you, and refers you to your local immigration office. Local banks can't tell you what immigration will accept.

No one on here has the authority to determine the acceptance or rejection of your proposal for meeting income requirements.

Keep checking with your local immigration office.

Good luck to all.
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Re: Income Letter

Post by semperfiguy » November 17, 2018, 9:24 am

There's one more point on which I am confused, so perhaps someone out there could shed some light. Almost every time I have read reference to the requirements for a marriage extension of stay, it seems to be saying that the monthly income stream has to come from that which is generated from within Thailand by way of a work permit. I have all along thought that it doesn't matter where the income originates.

Even the language used on the Thai Immigration website could be interpreted in different ways. For example:

For the Retirement extension of stay:
Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

For the Marriage extension of stay:
In the case of marriage to a Thai women, the alien must earn an annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month. (earning money implies obtaining money in return for labor or services....this according to the dictionary....thus the assumption of working in Thailand with a work permit. "Having an annual income of no less than" also implies averaging of the months, whereas that implication is not made in reference to the monthly requirement for the Retirement extension where it seems to be saying that each month must produce at least 65,000 with no averaging)

These are just some of the points where it gets very confusing, so is there any wonder why Immigration Officers are
never in agreement on the rules and regs and their interpretation.

All this confusion could be caused by a mistranslation of Thai into English on the government's websites. It would be interesting to see the requirements in the Thai language and have a qualified translator then explain them to us in English.
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 17, 2018, 9:44 am

semperfiguy wrote:
November 17, 2018, 9:24 am
There's one more point on which I am confused, so perhaps someone out there could shed some light. Almost every time I have read reference to the requirements for a marriage extension of stay, it seems to be saying that the monthly income stream has to come from that which is generated from within Thailand by way of a work permit. I have all along thought that it doesn't matter where the income originates.

Even the language used on the Thai Immigration website could be interpreted in different ways. For example:

For the Retirement extension of stay:
Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

For the Marriage extension of stay:
In the case of marriage to a Thai women, the alien must earn an annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month. (earning money implies obtaining money in return for labor or services....this according to the dictionary....thus the assumption of working in Thailand with a work permit. "Having an annual income of no less than" also implies averaging of the months, whereas that implication is not made in reference to the monthly requirement for the Retirement extension where it seems to be saying that each month must produce at least 65,000 with no averaging)

These are just some of the points where it gets very confusing, so is there any wonder why Immigration Officers are
never in agreement on the rules and regs and their interpretation.
Yes, semperfiguy, just a word here or there can cause confusion.
Then, the income letter made no distinction between money from in/outside Thailand or, other than the required amount, a retirement or marriage extension. It really doesn't gel together.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 17, 2018, 9:55 am

Brian Davis wrote:
November 17, 2018, 6:52 am
sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 17, 2018, 2:34 am
For an extension based on marriage in Udon the 400,000 only needs 2 months seasoning.
Yeah, ok, perhaps this is from the Thai act/law paperwork, because I don't recall ever seeing a guidance leaflet from Immigration on marriage extension applications, only retirement.




Then you probably missed my post number 103 in this thread where I posted exactly that.

It is from Udon immigration. It is in Thai and English here is the first page

[attachment=0]IMG_5693-2.jpeg[/attachment]

Here is the link to my post
income-letter-t48616-103.html
Attachments
IMG_5693-2.jpeg
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Re: Income Letter

Post by LoneTraveler » November 17, 2018, 10:05 am

Brian Davis wrote:
November 16, 2018, 6:57 pm
I do wonder if we'll ever receive any further written guidance from Immigration and even if yes, it's never going to be comprehensive enough to answer all situations. I agree that it's really not good enough that we may have to hope word of mouth through forums like this proves reliable and doesn't turn out differently for whatever reason on the day you go.

With the doubt and that it gives me some peace of mind, I'm going ahead on the basis of meeting all possible options for a marriage extension a) Embassy income letter - UK embassy confirmed in Thai Law it's valid for 6 months, but no confirmation yet Immigration will still accept it;b) I've moved 400,000 lump from my wife's account back to mine(savings a/c) - just in time for 3 months (or is it only two required?) before extension renewal due. I MAY be questioned about where the money has come from, but our ONLY income is from UK pensions, so it ORIGINATED abroad and c) the regular monthly income into my account, which has always exceeded 40,000 baht per month. I'm still not certain here that regular income is an acceptable method, rather than lump sum ONLY, for a marriage extension. So there's extra time and expense in organising that, fee for Embassy, fee for the bank in obtaining all the backup letters/statements.

Sorry if I'm thrashing this guys, but was there any mention of the "income letter" on your visit to Immigration, Lone Traveler? After all, if ok, this would give many of us some breathing space to sort out alternative arrangements.
Hi Yes Immigration did say they would accept an Embassy Income verification letter because the man ahead of me asked if he went to Bangkok for the letter the next day, would they honor it, the response was yes. So I guess if you get a letter from now until end of December they will honor it for up to 6 months.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 17, 2018, 10:17 am

semperfiguy wrote:
November 17, 2018, 9:24 am
There's one more point on which I am confused, so perhaps someone out there could shed some light. Almost every time I have read reference to the requirements for a marriage extension of stay, it seems to be saying that the monthly income stream has to come from that which is generated from within Thailand by way of a work permit. I have all along thought that it doesn't matter where the income originates.

Even the language used on the Thai Immigration website could be interpreted in different ways. For example:

For the Retirement extension of stay:
Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

For the Marriage extension of stay:
In the case of marriage to a Thai women, the alien must earn an annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month. (earning money implies obtaining money in return for labor or services....this according to the dictionary....thus the assumption of working in Thailand with a work permit. "Having an annual income of no less than" also implies averaging of the months, whereas that implication is not made in reference to the monthly requirement for the Retirement extension where it seems to be saying that each month must produce at least 65,000 with no averaging)

These are just some of the points where it gets very confusing, so is there any wonder why Immigration Officers are
never in agreement on the rules and regs and their interpretation.

All this confusion could be caused by a mistranslation of Thai into English on the government's websites. It would be interesting to see the requirements in the Thai language and have a qualified translator then explain them to us in English.
As you wish this is from Udon immigration. Section 4 refers to income from work in Thailand, section 5 refers to pension.
IMG_5695-2.jpeg
Here is the Udon translation of section 5 As you can see there is a very important mistake where there should be the word or not and.
IMG_5697-2.jpeg
Do note that translation is an art not a science so different translators will have subtly or substantially different translations. So get 2 or 3 independent professional translations and you will probably have 2 or 3 equally correct but different translations.

This is why the Thai wording always takes precedence.

What we are seeing now could easily be a case of a different reading of the original Thai, no change in law just a different translation.
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Isaanfarang
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Isaanfarang » November 17, 2018, 11:46 am

Is there a Danish member here? I would like to know whether documents had to be submitted to the Danish embassy to issue an income certificate? Or was an affidavit sufficient, like at the American Embassy?

As a German I am not concerned yet, but I get the feeling there are things going around that at the end might affect ALL foreign residents in Thailand.

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Brian Davis
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 17, 2018, 4:20 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 17, 2018, 9:55 am
Then you probably missed my post number 103 in this thread where I posted exactly that.
Yes, I did, or didn't look accurately enough. My apologies now tendered. As i have three copies of the retirement leaflet, I also failed to collect one on an Immigration visit. Next time. Yup, the English translation could be written more clearly.
LoneTraveler wrote:
November 17, 2018, 10:05 am
Hi Yes Immigration did say they would accept an Embassy Income verification letter because the man ahead of me asked if he went to Bangkok for the letter the next day, would they honor it, the response was yes. So I guess if you get a letter from now until end of December they will honor it for up to 6 months.
Thanks, sounds good, although there's no indication when the man was going to return to Immigration with an application. As Immigration is introducing new procedures from February, I don't see any problem before then. It's what Immigration decides from February on which matters, so I'd be a bit happier if the guy said he would return in e.g. April. I appreciate I may be over concerned and over complicating, BUT if it's correct that Udon Immigration received some information from Bangkok, only getting back to ask for further explanation/guidance, then they're confused on some issues too!

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