Income Letter

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Lone Star
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Lone Star » December 18, 2018, 5:16 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
December 18, 2018, 4:38 pm
. . .

The people at Immigration don't have a clue what we are losing and they could care less.
It's the IO's job to follow the immigration law and process the paperwork. Expats either qualify or they don't. It's the expat's job to make an informed decision of where they choose to live with all the pros and cons -- and the realization that something can change overnight. Those who can adapt and planned well, usually survive those hiccups.

As for Westerners being all that much more astute, I think you are giving way too many too much credit. Every culture has their oblivious class that just goes through the motions every day without common sense or awareness and has a life/financial history of jumping from frying pans into fires.


AMERICA: One of the Greatest Stories Ever Told.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by pipoz4444 » December 18, 2018, 6:17 pm

[/quote]

Yea, the difference is that we Westerners are smart enough to be able to sit down, consider all the variables and make informed decisions on what is best for us....financially, emotionally, spiritually and otherwise.

Thais just don't want to "think" that much.....the simpler the better. They just can't follow the math or the logic. If you don't believe me just ask one of them how much interest they are paying on their car or home loan. They don't have a clue. If they can make the monthly payments then they'll sign the papers and all the rest of the fine print is meaningless to them.
[/quote]

True Semperifuy for Thai's, you see this in the way some Thai's start up small businesses. They get an idea, usually from a family member that .......X might be a good business because a friend 5 kms away is doing it an possibly making money, so to them it must work. They don't consider the demographics, need for foot or vehicle traffic, location value etc.They don't consider how best to invest their funds (if they have them) elsewhere. They only thing about the initial Gross Money they might be able to squeeze out of a business each month and don't properly consider the costs of properly running that small business and its upkeep. I say some Thai, because some are smarter that others and some do succeed.

Have a guy 200 meters from my place, his father died 2 years back, so he obviously inherited the house and land. He went and built a small Hotel, about 8 rooms reasonable quality, 40 - 50 m2 each. I would say it has cost him around TB 4.5 Mill as a investment. It is 200 meters back from the main road, so he stuck a sing on it and obviously thought the customers would start rolling in.

Even if it was 50% full all them time his Gross Return on Investment would only be around TB 500,000 Per annum, before cost deduction for Wages & Running expenses. Not great numbers on Paper and not much chance of Capital Gain. Problem is, WRONG LOCATION for several reasons, and from what I have see he is lucky to have one customer per month.

Now there is another family doing the same thing closer to the main road? :roll: :roll: You would think that they would talk to each other. For sure there is not enough potential in the area for two low budget Hotels

In general I have found that a lot of the South East Asians that I have come across in the past 20 plus years, those of a more working class nature, and a lot of them that currently work under me, don't consider a long term view of their financial position and or it future security. At best they just look a month or two ahead.

Filipino Expats are the worst, constantly living in a life off Debt, with no understanding of the risk associated with not paying of that Debt as quick as they can.

It might be a bit Off Track for this Post, and I suppose that there are many out there from all races/countries that never worried about organizing their Financial Security for their later years of life, when they were in their mid 40,s. :-k :-k They probably thought/assumed a Government would take care of their needs later in life. WRONG assumption. :-k [-o< [-o<

pipoz4444
Last edited by pipoz4444 on December 19, 2018, 12:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.

glalt
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Re: Income Letter

Post by glalt » December 18, 2018, 7:12 pm

Giggle wrote:
December 18, 2018, 2:57 pm
Really? Giving a dedicated life partner a simple allowance -- like a child? If you don't trust her, don't marry her. Simple.
An allowance? My wife has a big face because she pays the bills and handles our living expenses. It's not like giving a kid spending money. She has a motorbike and I bought her a new car that she picked out herself about a year and a half ago. She considers herself very fortunate. Having a big face is very important to a wife. We seldom go out to eat but when we do, she enjoys paying the bill herself. I usually slip her the money but she pays and likes the waitress to think she controls things. Maybe I should mention that she is anything but submissive. I wouldn't like having a jealous clinging vine for a wife.

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saint
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Re: Income Letter

Post by saint » December 19, 2018, 4:06 am

glalt wrote:
December 18, 2018, 7:12 pm
Giggle wrote:
December 18, 2018, 2:57 pm
Really? Giving a dedicated life partner a simple allowance -- like a child? If you don't trust her, don't marry her. Simple.
An allowance? My wife has a big face because she pays the bills and handles our living expenses. It's not like giving a kid spending money. She has a motorbike and I bought her a new car that she picked out herself about a year and a half ago. She considers herself very fortunate. Having a big face is very important to a wife. We seldom go out to eat but when we do, she enjoys paying the bill herself. I usually slip her the money but she pays and likes the waitress to think she controls things. Maybe I should mention that she is anything but submissive. I wouldn't like having a jealous clinging vine for a wife.
This makes perfect sense to me . It would appear that not only do you trust your wife with the living expenses , you have also taught her how to handle money .
I admit that some Thais are not the sharpest tools in the box , but its not really their fault .
Many have had very little education , and what they have had has mainly been to be subservient and loyal undemanding subjects . Not the ways of the world or how to control their finances .
So if you care about the woman you share your life with , its seems only fair that as alleged superior westerners we have a responsibility to guide them .
Yet , there are many Thais that do very well ,against the odds .
So just like women , all Thais are not the same. No more than all farangs are the same , and i for one am glad we are not , especially reading how some of you view your wives , and life here .
Individuals are just that , individuals. You can waste your whole life thinking the worst will happen to you , or you can live your lives to the fullest and deal with the shyte , if and when it hits the fan .

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Re: Income Letter

Post by glalt » December 19, 2018, 10:27 am

saint wrote:
December 19, 2018, 4:06 am
glalt wrote:
December 18, 2018, 7:12 pm
Giggle wrote:
December 18, 2018, 2:57 pm
Really? Giving a dedicated life partner a simple allowance -- like a child? If you don't trust her, don't marry her. Simple.
An allowance? My wife has a big face because she pays the bills and handles our living expenses. It's not like giving a kid spending money. She has a motorbike and I bought her a new car that she picked out herself about a year and a half ago. She considers herself very fortunate. Having a big face is very important to a wife. We seldom go out to eat but when we do, she enjoys paying the bill herself. I usually slip her the money but she pays and likes the waitress to think she controls things. Maybe I should mention that she is anything but submissive. I wouldn't like having a jealous clinging vine for a wife.
This makes perfect sense to me . It would appear that not only do you trust your wife with the living expenses , you have also taught her how to handle money .
I admit that some Thais are not the sharpest tools in the box , but its not really their fault .
Many have had very little education , and what they have had has mainly been to be subservient and loyal undemanding subjects . Not the ways of the world or how to control their finances .
So if you care about the woman you share your life with , its seems only fair that as alleged superior westerners we have a responsibility to guide them .
Yet , there are many Thais that do very well ,against the odds .
So just like women , all Thais are not the same. No more than all farangs are the same , and i for one am glad we are not , especially reading how some of you view your wives , and life here .
Individuals are just that , individuals. You can waste your whole life thinking the worst will happen to you , or you can live your lives to the fullest and deal with the shyte , if and when it hits the fan .
I will admit that it was a long learning curve for my wife. We lived together for more than a year in my Jomtien condo before we got married. I drove a very old Toyota pickup truck. My wife had two rai and an unfinished house upcountry. She was after me to drive up there and have a look. I didn't trust the old Toyota to go that far so I bought a new Nissan pickup. I had seen upcountry houses before so it took some convincing for me to make that long drive. When we got up here, her house was a western style two bedroom place. It had no screens on the doors or windows, a squat toilet, one fuse for the entire house for electricity and a hard as a rock mattress. It is a scenic area and I liked it. Her parents lived in the next village. After a number of trips and gradually making house improvements to westernize it so I would be able to live there, we moved upcountry. I did have to make some rules. The house was for the two of us and her family would never move in with us. Since it was her house and if she moved in any family member, I would move back to the condo.

My wife is a farm girl. She doesn't own a dress and uses no makeup, not even lipstick. She hated asking me for money so after several years I had her sit down and figure out how much she would need for our living expenses. She came up with 25,000 baht a month. I like some farang food and it is more expensive. I gave her 30,000 baht and if she had anything left over, it was hers. I bought her a small 10 rai farm for 18,000 baht per rai. She farmed it herself. She wanted a car with an automatic transmission. She needed a drivers license and to learn how to drive. I tried to teach her with my old manual 4X4 Toyota pickup. If she could drive that, she could drive anything. I didn't have the patience so her uncle taught her. She finally learned to drive it and got her license. She drove the much newer Nissan pickup for a while. I then did buy her a new car with an automatic transmission. That made things very good for me because I no longer had to take her shopping or haul things back and forth to the farm. I found another really nice 10 rai farm and bought it for 20,000 baht per rai. This started her quest for more farm land. She now has more than 65 rai. Any farm profit, and there wasn't much, went into buying more land. I wasn't sure that she could make mortgage payments to the bank and told her that no way would I make the mortgage payments for her. The last land she bought, she paid 100,000 baht per rai, I explained to her that for that much money the land would never pay for itself. She didn't care and always managed to make her payments. She told me that the farmland was for her future and that I wouldn't live forever. She has had offers to sell some of the land for a huge profit but no way will she sell any of it. I have no idea what her finances are and I don't care as long as she doesn't expect me to make any of her payments. As I previously mentioned, she is fiercely independent. She farms and works part time for the electric company. During the busy harvest times, she doesn't have time to take proper care of me and urges me to go down and stay in the condo. I am free to come and go as I wish and that suits me quite well.

She may even keep me because she says she is now too old to train a new husband. LOL!

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saint
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Re: Income Letter

Post by saint » December 19, 2018, 12:12 pm

Good for you and your wife , and thankyou for proving my point . Some of us are no better than the Thais for dumping everyone in the same bucket . I dont know what world they came from or even what world they are living in now , but we as educated people should know better than to do that . Stereo type everyone with their paranoid views .
I know when Thais do it to me i get annoyed that i too in there eyes are put in the same bucket as some of the dregs that are seen roaming Udon .

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Re: Income Letter

Post by semperfiguy » December 19, 2018, 2:48 pm

Time to get us back on topic. In one of my previous posts I indicated that I was writing Bangkok Bank, New York to try to resolve all the confusion over their recent announcement by customer letter and their website that they will soon begin to require all US Social Security direct deposits to be processed with an IAT (International ACH Transaction) code.

For those of you who are affected by this, please read the following response which I received this morning, and pay particular attention to the sentence that is highlighted in red. I will comment further at the end of this post:

Dear Mr. XXXXX:

Firstly, I apologize for the delay of our response. I believe the website may have some typo and may confuse the customer. We will contact our Head Office to revise the content as deem appropriated.

As per NACHA rules, New York Branch as an intermediary bank should process the payment which come in as an International ACH (IAT) format as the final beneficiary’s account is in Thailand, therefore, the remitter of the payment in the U.S. is required to obtain certain additional types of information from you in order to send these payments in a proper international format through us. This means that you need to inform the remitter which in this case the U.S. government that your account is in Thailand and provide certain identifying information, including the following:

1. Your name and physical address in Thailand;

2. Your bank account number and the name and address of Bangkok Bank in Thailand which you may use the address of our Head Office at 333 Silom Road, Bangkok, Thailand as all payments will be routed and process there.

3. The routing number of Bangkok Bank New York Branch, which acts as intermediary in the transaction.

Since late September we’ve sent the Notification of change to the U.S. government for all transactions that come in as a non-IAT format so they can make the change in the format. We hope that our approach will assist in correcting the issues, however, we have seen that approximately 80% of the Social Security beneficiaries already have their payment in the correct format, therefore, if you provide the account name that you are receiving the direct deposit and approximately date of your last payment, I can check whether yours transaction is already in the correct format so you may not need to do anything.

Meanwhile, please visit Social Security website to update your address or information of your account at https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/what.html as the form that the local branch has may not be an appropriated form to change the address and account information.

Thank you for using our bank.

Best regards,

Sirivan Chuaypradit

Bangkok Bank Public Company Limited
29 Broadway, 19th Floor,
New York, N.Y. 10006
Tel: (212) 329-9201


If you are interested in communicating directly with Khun Sirivan Chuaypradit in New York, then you can reference this email and send her your name as it appears on your account and the date of your last SS deposit and she can check to see if your SS direct deposit is already in the IAT format. If so, you have nothing more to worry about. If not then you can go into your local Bangkok Bank branch and fill out a new form for them to forward to Social Security which will have all the information that they will require to get your direct deposit into the IAT format. Or, you can go into your account online and make necessary changes there. Email her at sirivan.chu@bangkokbank.com

Hope this helps!
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glalt
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Re: Income Letter

Post by glalt » December 19, 2018, 4:22 pm

Giggle wrote:
December 18, 2018, 12:02 pm
Two weeks after you geezers cark it, she'll buy her layabout brothers each a new truck and be back to eating bugs and field rat. It's how they roll.
My wife has only sisters and all 4 are married. AND, they wouldn't be eating rice rats anyways. They are too expensive. They would sell them and buy chicken. Chicken is much cheaper. Don't you know anything?

AND, when I pop my clogs, why would I care what she does as long as it makes her happy?

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Re: Income Letter

Post by Jello » December 29, 2018, 6:00 pm

US Counsel General of the US Embassy Bangkok speaking about income verification starting about 18:15 and again about 38:30.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEK91X0dCg

glalt
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Re: Income Letter

Post by glalt » December 29, 2018, 7:58 pm

My standard of living here in Thailand is likely different than many others. I wouldn't like putting 65,000 baht in my Thai bank every month. I don't have any debts. I own a condo in my name and my wife owns her house where we actually live. I don't spend 65,000 baht per month. I'm comfortable with the 800,000 in my Thai bank. That keeps it as simple as possible for me. I think all Thai immigration offices have their own rules. As you probably know, if you live here, that immigration officers are NEVER wrong.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by tutone » December 29, 2018, 8:14 pm

Jello wrote:
December 29, 2018, 6:00 pm
US Counsel General of the US Embassy Bangkok speaking about income verification starting about 18:15 and again about 38:30.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEK91X0dCg
Great post. Thanks.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by RLTrader » December 31, 2018, 5:45 am

The only thing I found interesting was that the US spoke person admitted their (US UK) conspiracy and their Bullet Point “Income Letter” on their Thailand “Regime Change” list, while the UK spoke person would not do so in a prior interview.

I see by the Canada web site that they are still issuing “Income Letters” by appointment into next year. So maybe one of our Canadian forum members could enlighten us on its requirements. Also any other country’s requirements?

I had thought that the UK did some sort of verifying, but not sure on its requirements?

While The US issues theirs by taken an oath or affirmation under penalty of perjury which is a felony and carries a possible prison sentence of at least one year, plus fines.

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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » December 31, 2018, 7:14 am

RLTrader wrote:
December 31, 2018, 5:45 am
The only thing I found interesting was that the US spoke person admitted their (US UK) conspiracy and their Bullet Point “Income Letter” on their Thailand “Regime Change” list, while the UK spoke person would not do so in a prior interview.

I see by the Canada web site that they are still issuing “Income Letters” by appointment into next year. So maybe one of our Canadian forum members could enlighten us on its requirements. Also any other country’s requirements?

I had thought that the UK did some sort of verifying, but not sure on its requirements?

While The US issues theirs by taken an oath or affirmation under penalty of perjury which is a felony and carries a possible prison sentence of at least one year, plus fines.
Complete speculation but If you listen carefully it sounds as if the income requirement will be brought into line with the 400,000/800,000 method and only acceptable proof will be one year of deposits into a Thai bank or Thai tax paid income.

Probably with a one year transition period to allow for the change.

It may well make the money in the bank more attractive as if it follows the same procedures you will have to transfer in 780,000 (480,000 marriage) minimum probably more to account for FX changes every year as opposed to the money in the bank where, if your expenses are low, you can spend down and only top up for the last 3 months (2 for marriage)

The police order will very probably be published within weeks so then hopefully there will be clarity.
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