Immigration latest marriage/child visa

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Chuchi
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Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by Chuchi » April 1, 2019, 8:10 am

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but judging by this latest article it looks like they are at least discussing business, marriage and people with children visas,let’s hope for the better.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/easier ... mmigration



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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by Lone Star » April 1, 2019, 8:31 am

Chuchi wrote:
April 1, 2019, 8:10 am
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but judging by this latest article it looks like they are at least discussing business, marriage and people with children visas,let’s hope for the better.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/easier ... mmigration
I hope so too.

Based on past conversation and observations, I think that the government has always sought to preserve the security of Thai Nationals married to expats -- especially with children. Their scrutiny seems to be born out of fraudulent marriages, not legitimate ones.
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 1, 2019, 9:11 am

Chuchi wrote:
April 1, 2019, 8:10 am
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but judging by this latest article it looks like they are at least discussing business, marriage and people with children visas,let’s hope for the better.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/easier ... mmigration
Well I think that better will depend on your viewpoint, if there are changes they are unlikely to make things easier or less complicated. As LS has mentioned real marriages are not the target it is the sham "just for extension " ones that are under scrutiny.

We can always hope.

The changes so far look to have been triggered by the 4 countries stopping the embassy documentation. This was a reason for immigration to change the money seasoning requirement, probably to catch out those who were faking and could not comply.

Now that the family support option is much easier (comparatively) some similar changes wouldn't be very surprising.
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by tamada » April 1, 2019, 10:07 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 1, 2019, 9:11 am
Chuchi wrote:
April 1, 2019, 8:10 am
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but judging by this latest article it looks like they are at least discussing business, marriage and people with children visas,let’s hope for the better.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/easier ... mmigration
Well I think that better will depend on your viewpoint, if there are changes they are unlikely to make things easier or less complicated. As LS has mentioned real marriages are not the target it is the sham "just for extension " ones that are under scrutiny.

We can always hope.

The changes so far look to have been triggered by the 4 countries stopping the embassy documentation. This was a reason for immigration to change the money seasoning requirement, probably to catch out those who were faking and could not comply.

Now that the family support option is much easier (comparatively) some similar changes wouldn't be very surprising.
So it was only the British, Americans, Australians and Danes that were faking things?

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 1, 2019, 11:50 pm

tamada wrote:
April 1, 2019, 10:07 pm

So it was only the British, Americans, Australians and Danes that were faking things?
It was the vocal Americans who were boasting about making fake declarations who probably were the main cause, as the UK and Australian (probably the Danish as well) were required to show proof of income to their embassies (were any of those documents faked? I don't know, some maybe), the Americans only had to state an amount with no proof and that income was stated on the embassy document.

Certainly others were/are faking but the majority of those aren't saying anything about it in public.
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by tamada » April 2, 2019, 10:18 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 1, 2019, 11:50 pm
tamada wrote:
April 1, 2019, 10:07 pm

So it was only the British, Americans, Australians and Danes that were faking things?
It was the vocal Americans who were boasting about making fake declarations who probably were the main cause, as the UK and Australian (probably the Danish as well) were required to show proof of income to their embassies (were any of those documents faked? I don't know, some maybe), the Americans only had to state an amount with no proof and that income was stated on the embassy document.

Certainly others were/are faking but the majority of those aren't saying anything about it in public.
Vocal Americans boasting? Hardly.

Looking at 3 of the 4 forms of now proscribed proof of overseas income, the one most likely to be faked was the Australian Statutory Declaration where the applicant simply walked in, wrote on a piece of blank paper that he had sufficient money, no figures asked for or quoted and no proof needed before the Australian Consular staff signed off.

The Americans did a sworn affidavit which placed them under federal perjury laws if the lied to the Consular staffer. If there's one thing I have learned from living in America and working with Americans is they do like their laws.

The British did have to show documentary evidence that admittedly could be forged but at least they had to put a bit of effort into it. The Consular staff did actually look at the evidence as a friend of mine had to resubmit it after the they noticed he'd gotten his sums wrong.

Not sure what the Danes had to provide as the only two that I know are simply rolling in it and pretty sure long-term permission to stay in LOS isn't a thing that worries them much. Maybe there's a clue in there somewhere?

Meanwhile, maybe somewhere over 70 other nationalities can carry on with their 'income letters'.

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by RLTrader » April 2, 2019, 12:36 pm

What us Americans need to do is a class action suit against the US State Dept. I see no legal way they can refuse to notarize some documents, but not others.

Talk about discrimination.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things
What we need is for someone to bring their “Income Letter” into the Bangkok Embassy and request it to be notarized.

Come next year when I need a new letter, just might take a trip to Bangkok, and see what they have to say.

Any retired American lawyers in country?

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by Lone Star » April 2, 2019, 12:43 pm

RLTrader wrote:
April 2, 2019, 12:36 pm
What us Americans need to do is a class action suit against the US State Dept. I see no legal way they can refuse to notarize some documents, but not others.

Talk about discrimination.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things
What we need is for someone to bring their “Income Letter” into the Bangkok Embassy and request it to be notarized.

Come next year when I need a new letter, just might take a trip to Bangkok, and see what they have to say.

Any retired American lawyers in country?
Paul "Udon Map" is a lawyer.

However, the problem is no longer the US State Department. The problem now is that Thailand isn't accepting the income letter because the US State Department won't verify it. At least, that's how I understand things as they stand today. So you might get the letter notarized, but the TIO probably won't accept it. You will just get that look.

One of the US Embassy employees explained to me several years ago that each country worked out their own "deal" with Thailand Immigration for expat income verification. That's why it was a tad different from country to country.
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by Udon Map » April 2, 2019, 1:11 pm

RLTrader wrote:
April 2, 2019, 12:36 pm
What us Americans need to do is a class action suit against the US State Dept. I see no legal way they can refuse to notarize some documents, but not others. ... What we need is for someone to bring their “Income Letter” into the Bangkok Embassy and request it to be notarized.
You guys do understand what notarization is, don't you? When a notary "notarizes" something, anything, that means that the notary has personally verified the identity of the person signing it. And the signing must occur, obviously, in the presence of the notary.

But that's all it does. Notarizing a document doesn't mean that the contents of the document are true/accurate/fact. In fact, one doesn't notarize a document at all. A notary notarizes a signature. So if a document is signed three times, each signature should be notarized separately, even though they're all on the same document.

All that said, we're in Thailand. How many times have we all been to government offices and seen dozens of rubber stamps and red/blue inkpads on desks? Form seems to be as important here as substance. Sooooo......, while notarization doesn't guarantee anything about your income, the rubber stamps from the notary along with the raised seal in the paper from the notary will make the document look really official to Thai bureaucrats. And I would bet some Krispy Kremes hot out of the oven that Thai government officials don't understand the real meaning of notarization.

Lone Star wrote:
April 2, 2019, 12:43 pm
Paul "Udon Map" is a lawyer.
True enough. Not retired, either. I'm still actively practicing.

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by RLTrader » April 2, 2019, 1:45 pm

Hmm,
Maybe have been misinformed, but
Having a document notarized is the same as swearing under oath in a court of law—you are saying that the facts contained in the document are true.

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by RLTrader » April 2, 2019, 4:40 pm

crickets ......
I also find it strange at American Embassy, that after checking my passport, that me and it are the same person, they make me raise my right hand and swear that everything in said “document” is truthful. Seems if they were only verifying my signature, why the swearing? I must be missing something here?

If I were a Thai Bureaucrat just might be a little offended by your last statement, but that’s me.
the notary will make the document look really official to Thai bureaucrats. And I would bet some Krispy Kremes hot out of the oven that Thai government officials don't understand the real meaning of notarization.
Bet some ฿ (Krispy Kremes ? (you must be from the South), over rated) that Thailand Immigration reads/monitors web sites, including this one. Some even read and speak excellent English.

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 2, 2019, 6:57 pm

RLTrader wrote:
April 2, 2019, 4:40 pm
Bet some ฿ (Krispy Kremes ? (you must be from the South), over rated) that Thailand Immigration reads/monitors web sites, including this one. Some even read and speak excellent English.
That is very probably true I'm reasonably sure that they also keep an eye on ThaiVisa as well.

Conjecture:

If so then the rather blatant posts over the last few years have been making them loose face in a pretty major fashion, most likely causing them to have rather pointed discussions with the embassies, telling them that they would have to verify the income that their citizens were claiming if they wanted to continue issuing income documents. At which point the 4 embassies said they could/would not so they decided to stop issuing them before immigration stopped accepting them.

So it in all probability was the fault of those abusing the system that has caused the problems for the majority who weren't.
Q:
Does anyone not from the 4 who is using an embassy document know if the truth of the document is checked by the embassie before the issue the immigration proof letter?
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by Tom & Jee » April 3, 2019, 6:40 am

Yesterday I went to the immigration for the yearly extension of my visa based on marriage. At the bank 20 minutes for the paper that says I have the 400000 in my account for the last 3 months. At immigration ....many many people. Only 10 minutes to take my papers but 1 hour checking them signing etc.(the previous years was 30 minutes).
The changes from last year are 2 .
1. The updated paper for the marriage from the amber ...that has been mentioned by others
2. The 400000 must not touched for another 3 weeks....that time they will call me from the immigration and I have to go update my bank book and go and show it to the officer ,that the money is still there. If everything OK I have to go back after a week to stamp my passport with the yearly extension

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by LoneTraveler » April 3, 2019, 7:45 am

Tom & Jee wrote:
April 3, 2019, 6:40 am
Yesterday I went to the immigration for the yearly extension of my visa based on marriage. At the bank 20 minutes for the paper that says I have the 400000 in my account for the last 3 months. At immigration ....many many people. Only 10 minutes to take my papers but 1 hour checking them signing etc.(the previous years was 30 minutes).
The changes from last year are 2 .
1. The updated paper for the marriage from the amber ...that has been mentioned by others
2. The 400000 must not touched for another 3 weeks....that time they will call me from the immigration and I have to go update my bank book and go and show it to the officer ,that the money is still there. If everything OK I have to go back after a week to stamp my passport with the yearly extension
Hi I thought the 400K had to be in the bank for 2 months prior for both marriage and retirement.

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by LoneTraveler » April 3, 2019, 7:47 am

Has anyone used the monthly income for a marriage extension?

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by saint » April 3, 2019, 2:06 pm

Tom & Jee wrote:
April 3, 2019, 6:40 am
Yesterday I went to the immigration for the yearly extension of my visa based on marriage. At the bank 20 minutes for the paper that says I have the 400000 in my account for the last 3 months. At immigration ....many many people. Only 10 minutes to take my papers but 1 hour checking them signing etc.(the previous years was 30 minutes).
The changes from last year are 2 .
1. The updated paper for the marriage from the amber ...that has been mentioned by others
2. The 400000 must not touched for another 3 weeks....that time they will call me from the immigration and I have to go update my bank book and go and show it to the officer ,that the money is still there. If everything OK I have to go back after a week to stamp my passport with the yearly extension
I went in yesturday also with the updated bank book .
Total nonsense in my opinion .
Nobody told me i could not touch the money for 3 weeks when i applied for the extention on March 6th .
Due to get the final stamp 5th this month , but get the call monday to return with updated bankbook .
Asked am i still good to get the stamp on the 5th. No , we will ring you when this paperwork is passed , could be awhile .
Before Songkran i hope says i , not sure she says , we will call you .
You do realise after the 5th i will have no valid visa , says i .
Only a problem if you want to leave the country , she says . What a f ucking joke .
So i inform her a friend in PKK didnt have to do all this .
Yes its only in the isaan provinces we were told to do it , she says .
Make of that what you will , cuz i havent a clue what this crap is all about .

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by dragonz » April 3, 2019, 2:51 pm

LoneTraveler wrote:
April 3, 2019, 7:45 am
Tom & Jee wrote:
April 3, 2019, 6:40 am
Yesterday I went to the immigration for the yearly extension of my visa based on marriage. At the bank 20 minutes for the paper that says I have the 400000 in my account for the last 3 months. At immigration ....many many people. Only 10 minutes to take my papers but 1 hour checking them signing etc.(the previous years was 30 minutes).
The changes from last year are 2 .
1. The updated paper for the marriage from the amber ...that has been mentioned by others
2. The 400000 must not touched for another 3 weeks....that time they will call me from the immigration and I have to go update my bank book and go and show it to the officer ,that the money is still there. If everything OK I have to go back after a week to stamp my passport with the yearly extension
Hi I thought the 400K had to be in the bank for 2 months prior for both marriage and retirement.
this question has been asked and answered ( mostly wrongly) so many times its amazing that nobody knows it . for marriage extension , first extension 400,000 in the bank for 2 months and then every further extension 400,000 baht in the bank for 3 months always has been unless its changed since when i did my extension on march 4 .
They never told em that i could not spent the money until i had got my visa extension stamp which is what people are reporting.If it is then the money should not have had to be in the bank for 3 months when you apply for your extension but when you receive your extension otherwise it would have to be in the bank 5 months ?
Also a little puzzled . My extension always runs out mar 29 . First extension i went in mar 28 and was told next time go earlier . they still did it and was under consideration until april 28 . Second time went in mar 1 but was still under consideration until april 28 ?Thought if i went in mar first would be under consideration until mar 29 when my extension expired . Seems like whatever date you go in the under consideration will always be 30 days after your extension runs out . mindbending lack of logic

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by DuiDui49 » April 3, 2019, 5:22 pm

Do i dear to ask one more thing regarding Marriage Visa ;-)

I'm from Sweden and thinking of maybe change from RT Visa to MV..Our Embassy in Bankok still does the Pension Statement Papers..so is it enough to show ONLY that paper verified and stamped,or do i still need both Bankbook Statement and Pension Papers.

Thank you for reading..Have a great evning..:-)

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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 3, 2019, 7:08 pm

DuiDui49 wrote:
April 3, 2019, 5:22 pm
Do i dear to ask one more thing regarding Marriage Visa ;-)

I'm from Sweden and thinking of maybe change from RT Visa to MV..Our Embassy in Bankok still does the Pension Statement Papers..so is it enough to show ONLY that paper verified and stamped,or do i still need both Bankbook Statement and Pension Papers.

Thank you for reading..Have a great evning..:-)
The marriage extension if you are using the income method only requires the embassy document, though immigration has been known to (require to) see the documents you showed to your embassy to get the document.

You should not need anything from a Thai bank. You could even have no Thai bank account and just be withdrawing money from ATMs, you would still meet the requirements.(assuming you have foreign income supported by an embassy document)

Don't forget you will need your wife and (probably) 2 Thai witnesses (one should be a Pu Yai Baan or higher) to vouch for you.
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on April 4, 2019, 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Immigration latest marriage/child visa

Post by DuiDui49 » April 3, 2019, 10:21 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 3, 2019, 7:08 pm
DuiDui49 wrote:
April 3, 2019, 5:22 pm
Do i dear to ask one more thing regarding Marriage Visa ;-)

I'm from Sweden and thinking of maybe change from RT Visa to MV..Our Embassy in Bankok still does the Pension Statement Papers..so is it enough to show ONLY that paper verified and stamped,or do i still need both Bankbook Statement and Pension Papers.

Thank you for reading..Have a great evning..:-)
The marriage extension if you are using the income method only requires the embassy document, though immigration has been known to see the documents you showed to your embassy to get the document.

You should not need anything from a Thai bank. You could even have no Thai bank account and just be withdrawing money from ATMs, you would still meet the requirements.

Don't forget you will need your wife and (probably) 2 Thai witnesses (one should be a Pu Yai Baan or higher) to vouch for you.
Thank you very much sir for that answer.Only need to fly down to BKK when it's time.Time to hit the pillow..;-)

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