U.S. Politics

[Khun Paul]

Copied from that source of impeccable knowledge :
Actually, I was trying to find out why KP is unreasonably rude when he espouses that all Americans are unintelligent. That's all. He frequently calls them morons and stupid, hence my question if he actually knows any personally because you of all people should know that friendships can be hard to foster.

In rsponse to that remark, let us look at the facts. People WHO BLINDLY follow the absoluite rubbish put out by politicians regarding how you should vote and why plus those who entertain acts top putt others at risk for not following what they personally think are to my personal thought processes the greatest threat to Democracy. Saw it in Germany in the 1930's and look what happened after that !!! .

It appears that people still seem to believe the utter garbage that the last general Election in the USA was stolen , whereas facts have proved otherwise. Is the average American in the USA so damn ignorant that they cannot see the truth or are they so scared of the truth they would rather act like Ostriches,

We see daily their anger and the outlandish rhetoric being spouted by the loud-mouths of the GOP and others that it is NO WONDER , Mr and Mrs Average are not only confused but also sceptical of their Politicians, yet each time they trot along voting for the incumbent even though many are one penny short of a nine bob note.

In long discussions with relatives there is even more of a sense of fear among thinking Americans that they may be targeted if they are seen to be against the often useless incumbent of any particular party as it goes against what the volatile sometimes armed thugs employed to make sure people comply.

That seems to be part of the problem , that is why the Postal Ballots were so beloved,but the NON Democratic Intentions of some states and some groups of politicians hate them as they cannot control who or what people vote for..

If the great American Public many of whom are silent actually voted for who they wanted, it would get better , hopefully !! Currently the only people making money ae the legal profession wih all the court cases many of which are at best spurious in their intent

[noosard]

The Nazis took power in 1933 with 43.8% of the votes

[Khun Paul]

The Nazis took power in 1933 with 43.8% of the votes

Exactly , not stating a World War, but possibly a Civil internal one !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jackspratt]

In long discussions with relatives there is even more of a sense of fear among thinking Americans that they may be targeted if they are seen to be against the often useless incumbent of any particular party as it goes against what the volatile sometimes armed thugs employed to make sure people comply.

That seems to be part of the problem , that is why the Postal Ballots were so beloved,but the NON Democratic Intentions of some states and some groups of politicians hate them as they cannot control who or what people vote for..

If the great American Public many of whom are silent actually voted for who they wanted, it would get better , hopefully !! Currently the only people making money ae the legal profession wih all the court cases many of which are at best spurious in their intent

Are your numerous US based relations suggesting that secret voting is no longer the case in the US?

[Whistler]

I agree wholeheartedly with KP on this issue. The USA sadly has a watered down form of democracy.

There is voter intimidation to an extent with so called poll watchers but the worst attempts on individuals voting is the restrictive practices to make it hard to vote for lower wage earners. These people work long hours and need alternative voting options such as early voting, postal voting and out of hours voting. All these alternatives are being tightened in GOP states, deliberately so.

The other totally anti one man one vote principle of democracy is the politicisation and manipulation of the electoral system. The numerous gerrymanders are the most obvious, but harassment of electoral officers and partisan decisions like that which robbed Al Gore in Florida by a GOP Attorney General is also a serious issue.

The GOP detests democracy, they have for years but are quite open about it now.

The USA has a deeply flawed electoral system and it has no appetite to rectify it.

Why is that important to the rest of the world? It helps rogue states like Myanmar by weakening international condemnation of its rigged elections. If large portions of the USA claimed rigged elections and attempt to deny the peaceful transfer of power, at the same time western nations have not categorically condemned Trump, they weaken their credibility to condemn other rogue nations.

Like it in not, the USA is considered to be the leader of the western world in promoting democracy. If the USA fails, the credibility of democracy in the world is damaged

[Khun Paul]

In long discussions with relatives there is even more of a sense of fear among thinking Americans that they may be targeted if they are seen to be against the often useless incumbent of any particular party as it goes against what the volatile sometimes armed thugs employed to make sure people comply.

That seems to be part of the problem , that is why the Postal Ballots were so beloved,but the NON Democratic Intentions of some states and some groups of politicians hate them as they cannot control who or what people vote for..

If the great American Public many of whom are silent actually voted for who they wanted, it would get better , hopefully !! Currently the only people making money ae the legal profession wih all the court cases many of which are at best spurious in their intent

Are your numerous US based relations suggesting that secret voting is no longer the case in the US?

Did I say that or are you assuming that is the case. Please read the ENGLISH I wrote obliged !!

[jackspratt]

So it is you that is suggesting it.

Now I understand.

But of course, secret voting is still a thing in the US, so I wonder how the "armed thugs" are ensuring compliance, and how the silent public are prevented from voting for who they want.

[Whistler]

KP is not entirely wrong here. I am not suggesting it is widespread but the fact exists at all is worrying

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ns-arizona

[jackspratt]

Yes it is - but irrelevant to the point I have highlighted twice now ie secret voting.

[Earnest]

Talking of irrelevant, this thread doesn't hold my attention for long, maybe a tad more than Harry and Meghan on Netflix. Elon Musk on Twitter is the one to watch, shadow banning, Hunter Biden's laptop and even Elton John throwing a hissy fit and flouncing off the site. Alex did that on UM and no one batted an eyelid.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Talking of irrelevant, this thread doesn't hold my attention for long, maybe a tad more than Harry and Meghan on Netflix. Elon Musk on Twitter is the one to watch, shadow banning, Hunter Biden's laptop and even Elton John throwing a hissy fit and flouncing off the site. Alex did that on UM and no one batted an eyelid.

For the most part, posters here just repeat what they have always said with nothing new to add.

[Whistler]

The issue is so much broader than secret voting

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publication ... fix-them-0

One sentence in this report is telling, 'The results show that experts rated American elections as the worst among all Western democracies'.

Don't expect any changes to happen in a hurry, too many powerful interests in that country do not want democracy and will thwart attempts to make voting a universal right.

[FrazeeDK]

that extract really doesn't explain anything about what is wrong. It seems to be a very generalized summary of the full report for which I don't see a link. Plus, these days any time I see "experts say" it sows doubt in my mind as to who those "exerpts" are and what are their political leanings.

[Earnest]

For the most part, posters here just repeat what they have always said with nothing new to add.

Unless your name is KP and you have a satchel full of Mills Bombs.

[jackspratt]

that extract really doesn't explain anything about what is wrong. It seems to be a very generalized summary of the full report for which I don't see a link. Plus, these days any time I see "experts say" it sows doubt in my mind as to who those "exerpts" are and what are their political leanings.

A .pdf of the full report can be found here https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publication ... w-fix-them

[tamada]

that extract really doesn't explain anything about what is wrong. It seems to be a very generalized summary of the full report for which I don't see a link. Plus, these days any time I see "experts say" it sows doubt in my mind as to who those "exerpts" are and what are their political leanings.

The two time stamps referenced are 2000 and 2016. If I recall correctly, the former was the infamous Florida "hanging chad" affair that ultimately returned a Republican president at the 11th hour? In 2016, Donald Trump had just about admitted defeat and folded his tent when those late-arriving ballots flipped a couple of key states, once again handing the Whitehouse to the GOP at the last minute. Seems that the Republicans are mostly happy to roll with the technical glitches and abstruse or arcane local procedures when they win but get all insurrectionist when it plays the other way?

With the quoted professor lecturing at Harvard Kennedy and ending her precis with, "the reforms will advance free and fair elections, and liberal democracy," it's probably a safe bet that she's not a conservative.

[Whistler]

Duh, if she wants free and fair elections, she by definition is not a Republican

[tamada]

Not my idea of an "expert" either.

But as you say, there's no willingness by either party to try and fix anything so the accusations of elections being fixed will persist. It's on the same planet as term limits.

[Whistler]

If Pippa Norris is not an expert, I would love to see your definition of who is an expert.

As for tam's statement that neither party wants reforms, that statement is completely at odds with the platform on this subject by the Democratic party.

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/pa ... democracy/

Here is a CV for Pippa

Pippa Norris, the Paul F. McGuire Lecturer in Comparative Politics at HKS, and Faculty Affiliate in the Department of Government, has taught at Harvard for three decades. She compares democracy, public opinion, elections, political communications, & gender politics worldwide. Google Scholar ranks her 3rd worldwide in political science citations, the SSRN ranks her 2nd in political science, Research.com ranks her 8th worldwide in political science & law, & Ioannidis et al (2019) rank her as the most cited political scientist in the world.

Major honors include the Johan Skytte prize (known informally as the 'Nobel' prize in political science), Karl Deutsch prize, Kathleen Fitzpatrick Australian Laureate, Sir Isaiah Berlin Lifetime Achievement Award, fellowship of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, Warren E. Miller Award, Sakip Sabanci Award, Murray Edelman Lifetime Achievement award, Samuel Eldersfeld Lifetime Career Achievement Award, Charles E. Merriam Award, George Hallet Award, Brown Medal for Democracy, Doris Graber award, and honorary doctorates from Edinburgh, Bergen, Leuphena, & Warwick.

She has published around fifty books (many subsequently translated into dozens of languages). These include In Praise of Skepticism (2022), Cultural Backlash (2019, with Inglehart), Strengthening Electoral Integrity (2017), Why Elections Fail (2015), Why Electoral Integrity Matters (2014), Making Democratic Governance Work: The Impact of Regimes on Prosperity, Welfare and Peace (2012), Democratic Deficits: Critical Citizens Revisited (2011), Cosmopolitan Communications (with Inglehart, 2009), Driving Democracy (2008), Radical Right (2005), Sacred and Secular (with Inglehart, 2004, 2010, winner of the 2005 Virginia Hodgkinson Prize), Electoral Engineering (2004), Rising Tide (with Inglehart, 2003), Democratic Phoenix (2002), Digital Divide (2001), A Virtuous Circle (2000) (winner of the 2006 Doris A. Graber prize), & Political Recruitment (winner of the George Hallet prize).


Edited books include Electoral Integrity in America (OUP 2018), Checkbook Elections (OUP 2016), Watchdog Elections (2016), Contentious Elections (Edited, Routledge), Advancing Electoral Integrity (Edited with Frank and Martinez, OUP 2014), Comparing Democracies 4 (edited with Leduc and Niemi, Sage 2014), Public Sentinel: News Media and the Governance Reform Agenda (edited, World Bank,2009), Framing Terrorism; Comparing Democracies 2; Britain Votes 2001; Critical Citizens; On Message; Critical Elections; The Politics of News (2nd edition in press); Elections and Voting Behaviour; Britain Votes 1997; Electoral Change Since 1945; Women, Media and Politics; Comparing Democracies; Women in Politics; Political Recruitment; Different Voices, Different Lives; Gender and Party Politics; British Elections and Parties Yearbook; British By-elections; Politics and Sexual Equality.


She established the Electoral Integrity Project in 2012 & served as Director of Democratic Governance at the United Nations Development Program in NY, VP of APSA and the WVS, Executive member of IPSA and the PSA, as a consultant to the UN, OSCE, IDEA, UNESCO, the Council of Europe, NED, UN Women, and UNDP. Her work has been published in more than a dozen languages. She holds a BA in Politics & Philosophy from Warwick University, and Master's and Doctoral degrees in politics from the London School of Economics. She is affiliated with Harvard's Center for European Studies, the Weatherhead Center for International Affairs, the Center for International Development, the Ash Center, & the Shorenstein Center. Full details: www.pippanorris.com. Twitter: #PippaN15

[tamada]

I was simply responding to FrazeeDK's questioning of what constitutes an expert and "their political leanings."