Revoke Article 50 petition

Zico
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 1, 2019, 4:29 pm

GT93 wrote:
April 1, 2019, 2:55 pm
Migration is often very positive. I say bring it on. Celebrate and welcome migrants.
Without migration I would never have met some of the people I call my best friends, nevermind the more intimate contacts. :D



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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 3, 2019, 5:09 am

papafarang wrote:
April 1, 2019, 1:31 pm
lost jobs of citizens going to migrants willing to work for less (which also causes a reduction in wages).
you can't lose a job. it either exists or it does not, and how can you create a job if there is no one to fill it. capitalism is a bitch ain't it, it needs migrants.
Jobs exist. Unfilled. Until filled by someone to do the job.

Jobs are created all the time that are unfilled until someone is hired.

The bitch is that you're wrong again.

1. First, it must be recognized that consumer demand causes jobs to be created that remain unfilled until someone is hired to fill the job. Whether the job is filled or not, the job has been created. That job opening exists without an employee until it is filled.

2. That created job that is unfilled could be filled by a migrant -- legal or illegal -- willing to work for less, who might very well get the job over a citizen who is accustomed to receiving a higher working wage in that particular country/region.

3. In order to cut overhead, businesses start hiring less expensive labor in the form of migrants -- legal or not. Citizens go unemployed due the hiring of migrants, and the country now has to provide entitlement benefits to that citizen who can't get a job. It's called lose-lose.

In countries where the jobs available are more than those seeking jobs, someone from outside the region/country has to fill those unfilled jobs. However, that is extremely rare. Most countries have fewer jobs than the number of people looking for jobs.

There are exceptions, as there are in almost every situation, but business is always looking for a way to cut costs without losing quality in their products and services. There is evidence of this hiring of inexpensive labor occurring wherever inexpensive labor is available.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 3, 2019, 7:41 am

Wow Mr. Lone Star that's a pretty left wing view of labour supply and demand. Bordering on Communism. :shock:

The political spectrum is a horseshoe rather than a straight line, the further left or right you go the closer you get to the other extreme.

Anyway the topic is Revoking Article 50
Logic goes out the window when nationalism gets involved, sadly this clouding people's judgement.
The obvious and most rational step for the UK is to abandon Brexit at this point.

Have a general election with candidates obliged to specifically lay out what their position is relating to the EU and if need be hold another referendum where a 'No Deal's Brexit could mandated, if that's what an informed majority decide.

Right now a handful of zealots are holding the country to ransom. That's not democracy.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 3, 2019, 8:11 am

Zico wrote:
April 3, 2019, 7:41 am
. . .
Anyway the topic is Revoking Article 50
. . .
Except YOU are the one who asked questions of me regarding EU weakness. I provided my answers and had questions of you, but you ducked them.

The political spectrum is not circular or horseshoe. It runs along a continuum of totalitarian to the left and anarchy to the right. Total government control and the extreme of no government do not morph into each other. They are as opposite as any two components can be.

Logic goes out the window when there is an effort to silence any voice in the debate. Nationalism is part of the debate and is at the root of Brexit. Since you don't agree with Brexit, you vilify nationalism.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by papafarang » April 3, 2019, 1:56 pm

Image
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by saint » April 3, 2019, 2:09 pm

Zico wrote:
April 3, 2019, 7:41 am
Wow Mr. Lone Star that's a pretty left wing view of labour supply and demand. Bordering on Communism. :shock:

The political spectrum is a horseshoe rather than a straight line, the further left or right you go the closer you get to the other extreme.

Anyway the topic is Revoking Article 50

Right now a handful of zealots are holding the country to ransom. That's not democracy.
Whats not democracy is trying to weasel out of a leave majority .

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by joudon » April 3, 2019, 4:36 pm

Article 50 can only be revoked by the unanimous approval of the heads of the other 27 countries, AFTER a request from the UK Government is received. To quote the then PM David Cameron on announcing the referendum ' the decision the people make will be honoured and acted on by Parliament '. Of course everyone believed , as I did that the remain option would win. If the UK does not leave and leave soon, it will be the biggest betrayal of democracy in our history. As a footnote.the UK IS a democracy, unlike the EU as a whole which certainly is NOT. None of its leaders have been voted into power, but ''appointed''. The question is ''appointed by whom''?

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by yartims » April 4, 2019, 7:42 pm

a bleak future awaits where few citizens bother to vote at the boxes ..the god old UK gumment is happy to lecture 1/3 world countries about democratic voting but cant practice what they preach ..

i see canvassers at voting time getting beaten up on the doorsteps as we are in uncharted waters similar to when olly cromwell made an appearance

a code of conduct is needed for MPs now as theyre an unruly bunch of retards with no special skills for their jobs

one black MP is tagged and still getting her wages for lying about a speeding offence when in offfice
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by yartims » April 4, 2019, 8:29 pm

THERES LOCAL COUNCIL ELECTION ON 2 MAY SO VOTERS WILL BE ABLE TO EXACT REVENGE ON THE MAIN PARTIES

THERES JUST THE SMALL WORRY OF UKIP AND BREXIT SPLITTING THE VOTE AND ALLOWING LIBLABCON SCUM BACK INTO POWER

ALSO MEP ELECTIONS COMING UP
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by yartims » April 5, 2019, 9:54 pm

France has reiterated its opposition to Britain being granted any further Brexit extension if it does not have a concrete plan with clear support in the Commons, saying that without that Britain must be deemed to have chosen to leave the EU without a deal.

Theresa May wrote to the president of the European council, Donald Tusk, on Friday to ask for Brexit to be delayed until 30 June while she battles to win cross-party agreement on a way forward.
Brexit: May's letter to Tusk does not provide enough 'clarity' about UK plans, says Dutch PM - live news
Read more

Responding to May’s letter, France’s secretary of state for European affairs, Amélie de Montchalin, told the Guardian in a statement: “The European council took a clear decision on 21 March … Another extension requires the UK to put forward a plan with clear and credible political backing.”

The council would then have to define the necessary conditions attached to that extension, she said. “In the absence of such a plan, we would have to acknowledge that the UK chose to leave the EU in a disorderly manner.”



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eal-brexit
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Bonanza » April 6, 2019, 6:44 am

In 1940, Britain in the guise of the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was kicked out of Europe by Nazi Germany and France, led by Petain became an ally of Nazi Germany which went on to conquer the rest of Europe.

When Britain was kicked out it had no backup plan!!

So now, Germany under Merkel with its ally France under Macron want to make sure Britain stays out, so they and the unelected EU commissioners can rule Europe. Does this sound familiar????????? :shock:

I suspect that now (as then) Britain with survive :D

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 7, 2019, 7:59 am

joudon wrote:
April 3, 2019, 4:36 pm
Article 50 can only be revoked by the unanimous approval of the heads of the other 27 countries, AFTER a request from the UK Government is received. To quote the then PM David Cameron on announcing the referendum ' the decision the people make will be honoured and acted on by Parliament '. Of course everyone believed , as I did that the remain option would win. If the UK does not leave and leave soon, it will be the biggest betrayal of democracy in our history. As a footnote.the UK IS a democracy, unlike the EU as a whole which certainly is NOT. None of its leaders have been voted into power, but ''appointed''. The question is ''appointed by whom''?
Any chance you'd bother to check this information before posting it?

This is a very basic point. If you've been misinformed about this what other lies have shaped your opinions and on consideration would you change them?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 75541.html

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 7, 2019, 9:37 am

Bonanza wrote:
April 6, 2019, 6:44 am
In 1940, Britain in the guise of the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was kicked out of Europe by Nazi Germany and France, led by Petain became an ally of Nazi Germany which went on to conquer the rest of Europe.

When Britain was kicked out it had no backup plan!!

So now, Germany under Merkel with its ally France under Macron want to make sure Britain stays out, so they and the unelected EU commissioners can rule Europe. Does this sound familiar????????? :shock:

I suspect that now (as then) Britain with survive :D
History is not Britain’s friend in international relations generally and specific events or timelines should definitely be avoided. Referencing WW2 negatively towards European countries is just moronic at any time never mind when you’re trying to negotiate with them.

The emerging markets that the UK will need to target after leaving the EU have bad history with colonialism and more resentment than most people realise especially if reminded of it.

Brexiteers can’t help themselves but indulge in a bit of empire nostalgia and jingoism, which may play well with a minority blue rinse audience at home but is potentially inflammatory to outside observers.

Acknowledge the past but don’t be a prisoner to it. Everyone should be projecting a modern open and inclusive Britain to deliver ‘the best possible Brexit’.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by joudon » April 7, 2019, 9:26 pm

''Prisoner to the past'' probably preferable to ''prisoner to failed EU''

Leaders appointed NOT voted in. Deicsions made without consultation
Financial irregularity, the books have never been balanced and millions of euros go missing every year.
Bureacuratic red tape at an unprecidented level
Quite simply over staffed
Nepotism and cronyism rampant
I wanted to be part of a modern democratic EU, not one that closely resembles feudalism.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 8, 2019, 5:17 am

Bonanza wrote:
April 6, 2019, 6:44 am
In 1940, Britain in the guise of the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was kicked out of Europe by Nazi Germany and France, led by Petain became an ally of Nazi Germany which went on to conquer the rest of Europe.

When Britain was kicked out it had no backup plan!!

So now, Germany under Merkel with its ally France under Macron want to make sure Britain stays out, so they and the unelected EU commissioners can rule Europe. Does this sound familiar????????? :shock:

I suspect that now (as then) Britain with survive :D
Agree.

I have no doubt that the citizens of the UK will prosper and achieve after getting out from under the thumb of the EU; and Britain will survive long after the EU is just a memory and shadow of what it aspired to be. The EU needs the UK's money -- that's all. The UK would be better off putting those funds to good use for its People.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 8, 2019, 7:35 am

joudon wrote:
April 7, 2019, 9:26 pm
''Prisoner to the past'' probably preferable to ''prisoner to failed EU''

Leaders appointed NOT voted in. Deicsions made without consultation
Financial irregularity, the books have never been balanced and millions of euros go missing every year.
Bureacuratic red tape at an unprecidented level
Quite simply over staffed
Nepotism and cronyism rampant
I wanted to be part of a modern democratic EU, not one that closely resembles feudalism.
All as true as your previous declaration about revoking A.50

Frankly all of what you've listed above more accurately applies to the current system of government in the UK.

The EU has been a convenient punchbag for 40 years, useless corrupt politicians could blame everything on the bloody foreigners. Yet the only outlet for the people's true discontent has been through European elections where minorities like UKIP, ironically, could have a voice.

Leave Europe and those minority voices will be silenced again.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 8, 2019, 7:45 am

Zico wrote:
April 8, 2019, 7:35 am
. . .

Leave Europe and those minority voices will be silenced again.
Where in your phony concern for silencing voices do you allow yourself to ignore the vote of the majority?
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by rick » April 9, 2019, 5:56 pm

Simple. If MPs are truly thwarting the will of the people, there are 2 simple answers, a general election or a referendum on SPECIFIC options which is not advisory. At least this time people would actually know what is on offer.

Strangely, Brexiteers are dead against these options. Maybe they do not like democracy either.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by joudon » April 9, 2019, 8:49 pm

Any future referendum would be rigged to remain. We were only given a referendum because the powers at be were 'assured' of a remain verdict. PM Cameron ' you the people will be give a vote and Parliament will honour and act on the decision you make' BULLSHIT.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by joudon » April 9, 2019, 9:28 pm

Any future referendum would be rigged to remain. We were only given a referendum because the powers at be were 'assured' of a remain verdict. PM Cameron ' you the people will be give a vote and Parliament will honour and act on the decision you make' BULLSHIT.

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