A little ray of sunshine from Australia

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tamada
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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 12, 2020, 9:47 am

jackspratt wrote:
September 12, 2020, 9:20 am
In the state with the hardest lock-down, the Premier has the support of 90%+ of the population.

I don't think he will be going anywhere next March, when the election must be held.
To save me time, what Australian state has the 'hardest' lock down as you describe it?



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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by jackspratt » September 12, 2020, 11:07 am

Western Australia.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by pipoz4444 » September 12, 2020, 11:43 am

bluejets wrote:
September 12, 2020, 5:55 am
pipoz4444 wrote:
September 11, 2020, 6:53 pm
The daughter was in quarantine, so obviously tested and showing no signs of having Covid 19 and also having traveled from a low risk city. They (Gov Health Officials) could have suited her up (Hazmat style) and kept her at a safe distance form others at the funeral, so where was the Risk. [-(
Do it for one and a dozen more are lined up with similar requests.
Before you know it, the whole State will be finding some reason for exemption.
Can you imagine the cost..? I think not.
The issue is also that the premier and or her Chief Health Officer have made other similar exemptions for other individuals and or organizations, so there is a degree of hypocrisy by the Queensland Government, in this case.

Annastacia Palaszczuk and or her Chief Health Officers have provided the Film Industry (and probably others) with a blanket exemption and no need to comply with the strict government quarantine rules, because the Film Industry has submitted a "Covid-19 Safe Plan", (A marvelous a piece of paper promising that persons will obey their own rules and self isolate, before working, obviously trustworthy). Question is does the Q Health Dept oversee and check that this is actually being implemented or just accept the document on face value, after they have stamped it. :-k

At the same time, AP is unable or unwilling to implement what arguably would even be a Safer and relatively simple plan by her own Heath Department, one that could escort the girl to attend the funeral and stand a as safe distance. Defies belief. :-k :-k

Two words best describe her and her Chief Officers decision, “Hypocrisy or Incompetence” [-( [-(

Also it is not a matter of doing it for the masses and not a matter costs, in this case. The circumstance of wishing to attend a funeral (when coming in from interstate) is not a common event, that happens every day. As to the cost of it, I doubt whether the cost of letting the girl attend a funeral would be any more that the cost of letting her attend the private viewing. I am also sure she would have gladly paid for her own Hazmat suit, if it came to than and if given the chance.

Respectfully, his is a typical decision made by typical government institution or in this case a Premier and her Chief Health Office. People who are not prepared to or who unable consider a particular circumstance on its own merits and then make an informed decision, rather than one protected by the rule book. It is simply “Bureaucracy”, where people act like sheep an blindly follow Rules (as a means of protection), rather than using a bit of common sense and brain power, for a particular or unique circumstance. You find it throughout government and semi government bodies and unfortunately with some of the larger organizations in the private sector, partly because Individuals are simply afraid of engaging in a proper Decision Making Process.

Let us see how the people of Queensland voice themselves, on the issue, on 31 October 2020

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by GT93 » September 12, 2020, 3:39 pm

I'm with bluejets. The downside is enormous if something goes wrong and soon hundreds or thousands will want exemptions. We've had problems with Covid 19 and funerals or people mourning in NZ. The most recent one means 25% of Kiwis will be under social distancing measures for additional weeks if not months and thousands more people lose their jobs. All because an idiot who should have been isolating went to mourn someone's death. Bingo -a new Covid 19 sub-cluster. And it's a sub-cluster based around religious nutters who think Covid 19 is fake news.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by pipoz4444 » September 12, 2020, 4:39 pm

GT93 wrote:
September 12, 2020, 3:39 pm
I'm with bluejets. The downside is enormous if something goes wrong and soon hundreds or thousands will want exemptions. We've had problems with Covid 19 and funerals or people mourning in NZ. The most recent one means 25% of Kiwis will be under social distancing measures for additional weeks if not months and thousands more people lose their jobs. All because an idiot who should have been isolating went to mourn someone's death. Bingo -a new Covid 19 sub-cluster. And it's a sub-cluster based around religious nutters who think Covid 19 is fake news.
Yes, but if I understand it correctly, your problems in NZ related to funerals, were mainly due to/or because, certain individuals totally disregarded "Quarantine" (the Idiot Factor) and not because they were escorted by the government health official, at the time.

I agree with potential ramifications, if uncontrolled, and agree with the Idiot factor as you so rightly put it, but a properly managed Risk (in this case the girl being escorted by a health officer to the funeral) is not a huge Risk, if any. One has to decide on the real level/degree of Risk, if the measures are taken and not just err on the side of absolute caution or stupidity, as I see it. :-k

Just my 2 cents worth

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by bluejets » September 13, 2020, 5:40 am

Beats me why they can't use an Ipad or similar to "attend the funeral".
They seem to use them for similar the other 23 hours in each and every day.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 13, 2020, 9:21 am

GT93 wrote:
September 12, 2020, 3:39 pm
I'm with bluejets. The downside is enormous if something goes wrong and soon hundreds or thousands will want exemptions. We've had problems with Covid 19 and funerals or people mourning in NZ. The most recent one means 25% of Kiwis will be under social distancing measures for additional weeks if not months and thousands more people lose their jobs. All because an idiot who should have been isolating went to mourn someone's death. Bingo -a new Covid 19 sub-cluster. And it's a sub-cluster based around religious nutters who think Covid 19 is fake news.
I thought that after the Auckland quarantine hotel shag fest, Cindy had gotten the army in to control and sort out these ne'erdowells? Do they need to be issued with live ammo now?

When it comes to the Qld case, what was too difficult for their state health nazi to organize SOCIAL DISTANCING for a single person from a "clean" state who been already permitted to enter and was serving quarantine? The, "He's dead now so better you bugger off home lest we find you violating your permission to enter and lock you up" decision is simply dripping with the political division the Qld Premier says she won't be party to. It's a pity it wasn't dripping with empathy instead.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by noosard » September 13, 2020, 9:59 am

Not actually a state

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 13, 2020, 10:14 am

noosard wrote:
September 13, 2020, 9:59 am
Not actually a state
OK, from a "clean" not actually a state.

Semantics much?

Where's the uber-quiet WAustralians on all of this? Has their empathy also wicked away with their popular state government's rising iron fist?

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by noosard » September 13, 2020, 10:22 am

I worked out why ACT people not free to travel to Qld as their border are open to dishonest travellers
ie restrictions too lax
Qld already had numerous dishonest travellers returning which is why there is a rise in virus numbers

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 13, 2020, 10:47 am

noosard wrote:
September 13, 2020, 10:22 am
I worked out why ACT people not free to travel to Qld as their border are open to dishonest travellers
ie restrictions too lax
Qld already had numerous dishonest travellers returning which is why there is a rise in virus numbers
You mean ACT is being a bit disingenuous in all this? Like Thailand?

The rise in numbers is primarily due to people forgetting the three basic rules of wash your hands, wear a mask and observe social distancing. This is not a uniquely Antipodean attitude as we can see in many European nations and individual U.S. states. There seems to be only two ways that most governments see as getting us back to normal; the first being the circle-jerk in the U.K. where easily understood rules are chopped and changed leading to what I call willful confusion by certain elements. The other is to lock out all non-residents and foreigners like WA and (until recently) Thailand.

The basket case of Victoria wasn't caused by people attending out of state funerals. Maybe poorly managed state quarantine, management and control? Maybe they didn't (still don't) have a contingency plan for when it goes pear-shaped? Does WA, NT or Qld have a backup plan beyond locking out foreigners (including Aussies) and locking in their own?

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 13, 2020, 11:33 am

Here some insight on the Aussie national government's compassion. Maybe this is what the Qld premier was so annoyed about?

Australian diplomats sent to Heathrow airport to help citizens stranded due to travel caps

"The story follows scores of stranded Australians contacting Guardian Australia , including many who had travelled overseas in recent weeks with a valid exemption to visit a sick relative, who have had their return tickets cancelled, and now face an indefinite period away from their families, jobs and secure accommodation."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ravel-caps

And...

'Shattered, heartbroken, financially ruined': stranded Australians plead for help

'Keagan has not been to school for five months, and since physical schooling resumed in NSW, lessons are no longer online. He is unable to properly call his friends due to the time zone difference, and is concerned he is falling so far behind in classes he will be unable to realise his dream of becoming an engineer or scientist."


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... d-for-help

It appears that an official Australian travel exemption has as much validity as Boris Johnson's signed and sealed Brexit agreement.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by noosard » September 13, 2020, 3:13 pm

Just like here if you leave it is difficult to return
Difficult but not impossible

Would not say ACT was being disingenuous but less rigid with their own security precautions

Seems to be too open to virus infected areas

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by GT93 » September 15, 2020, 1:24 am

There's evidence that border controls work (a lengthy article with international comparisons but no mention of Australia):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e=Homepage

It would be easy to find 1,000 sad stories involving Australians more sad than a lass not being able to go to a funeral. Even if you limited it to Aussies outside Australia. There must also be thousands or tens of thousands of deaths where funerals have been severely restricted by lock down rules.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 7:45 am

GT93 wrote:
September 15, 2020, 1:24 am
There's evidence that border controls work (a lengthy article with international comparisons but no mention of Australia):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e=Homepage

It would be easy to find 1,000 sad stories involving Australians more sad than a lass not being able to go to a funeral. Even if you limited it to Aussies outside Australia. There must also be thousands or tens of thousands of deaths where funerals have been severely restricted by lock down rules.
I'll have to get a subscription to read that. Does it suggest that Trump cocked up again?

The sad story at hand is the Qld health Nazi not being able to see that although the reason for her travel permit and quarantine had changed through the death of her father, the risk of the girl setting off an imported cluster had not. She was allowed in to see her living father but not allowed to see her dead father? Right there there's one less person she could have infected. His passing away did not make her suddenly infectious regardless of the part-served quarantine.

It could have been easily managed all in the background but someone got all, "Don't you get all political on me" while getting all political herself.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by jackspratt » September 15, 2020, 8:07 am

You really ought to send your CV off to Brisbane, tam.

Seems you have a particular skill, in being able to assess the position on the ground 7350km away, while ensconced safely behind your keyboard in UT.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 9:09 am

^ And you suggest that somehow I'm not supposed to try and do that? I'm not allowed an opinion?

Beyond the facile "opening the floodgates on similar inter-state funeral entitlements" argument, what logic or science influenced the Qld government's decision?

In case you've missed it, nobody's really safe these days, keyboard protected or otherwise.

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by noosard » September 15, 2020, 9:37 am

Kind of funny how both sides use properganda to push their view point
Some facts each way
The people in charge take advice what is to be done
Then the people at the top decide whether they will use this advice
Once decided on they should stand by their decision until advised otherwise
And there should be no exception to the rules made
Seems easy

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by noosard » September 15, 2020, 9:41 am

What is disappointing to see is the PM using double standards
One day it is the premiers responsibility next he wants to tell them how to do it

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Re: A little ray of sunshine from Australia

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 10:01 am

noosard wrote:
September 15, 2020, 9:37 am
Kind of funny how both sides use properganda to push their view point
Some facts each way
The people in charge take advice what is to be done
Then the people at the top decide whether they will use this advice
Once decided on they should stand by their decision until advised otherwise
And there should be no exception to the rules made
Seems easy
If the rules specifically state (in this instance) that "any change of circumstances will invalidate your travel permit" then yes, better to stick to the rules and avoid the inevitable can o' worms scenario. However, like the many different rules that many different government's set out, there doesn't seem to be a thorough "all scenarios" vetting before inflicting them on the unaware. The one-size-fits-all paradox?
noosard wrote:
September 15, 2020, 9:41 am
What is disappointing to see is the PM using double standards
One day it is the premiers responsibility next he wants to tell them how to do it
It's not a uniquely Australian scenario either. Some states in the US defy the White House while Westminster rides roughshod over Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Maybe Lukashenko does have the right idea?

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