Cremation of a Monk

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 12, 2006, 9:00 am

For those amongst us that enjoy to see and learn about the Real Thailand there is an opportunity this coming weekend to see the cremation festivities, yes festivities,associated with the burning of the body of a much revered senior monk.Phrat Atickgan Meechai Bunyatarrow It takes place from Saturday13th until Monday 15th, with the actual cremation taking place at 3.00pm on Sunday 14th The location. Temple name Udom Sin at the village of Nong Wang Joom Phon.approx 60kms from Udon. It starts each morning at 7.00am with the giving of alms to the monks, it is anticipated about 100 will be attending, and is scheduled to finish at 8.00pm. After which the festivities which include a Laos song and dance show,start. This can go on for the best part of the night.Entry is free but it is custom to put a donation in an envelope with your name on the outside to ensure good luck comes your way during the rest of the year.
This is an opportunity for the camera buffs amongst us to film a rarely seen festival in a enviroment that is a very traditional agriculture village.
From Udon come out on the Loei road, at NongWor Sor traffic lights turn left towards Nong Or/ Non Wai, straight through both, you will see Amphoe and police station on your right, keep going straight for another 10kms, then turn left. It is well signposted(IN Thai ( หนองแวงจุมพล) On the road to Good Mach Fai.
Hope to see many of you there. This is the Thailand the tourist rarely sees.

Post by **Paul** » May 12, 2006, 11:41 pm

I fail to see how a cremation of someones loved one - be it a brother, father, son or dear friend is being turned into a tourist attraction - despite the fact he is a monk
Bring your cameras and joing the festivities - yeah !

Maybe I have not been here long enough to appreciate Thai culture - however I know that village very well and cannot imagine how they will react to a bunch of camera weilding farangs turning up hoping for the best shot of the burning ? After all its "something a tourist rarely sees" - so thats ok then.
Perhaps they will catch a good photo of someone crying too ?
well they can always post that shot of a lifetime on this forum so we can all 'enjoy it'
seems a bit morbid to me

Post by **farang** » May 13, 2006, 12:36 am

This is an opportunity for the camera buffs amongst us to film a rarely seen festival in a enviroment that is a very traditional agriculture village

i am allways up for a BBQ ,but, "this is ridiculous"

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 6:44 am

Paul wrote:I fail to see how a cremation of someones loved one - be it a brother, father, son or dear friend is being turned into a tourist attraction - despite the fact he is a monk
Bring your cameras and joing the festivities - yeah !

Maybe I have not been here long enough to appreciate Thai culture - however I know that village very well and cannot imagine how they will react to a bunch of camera weilding farangs turning up hoping for the best shot of the burning ? After all its "something a tourist rarely sees" - so thats ok then.
Perhaps they will catch a good photo of someone crying too ?
well they can always post that shot of a lifetime on this forum so we can all 'enjoy it'
seems a bit morbid to me

I suppose that just goes to show how little you know about Thai culture then Paul. I realise you know about that village, its where your wife came from, isn't it?
The cremation of any one but especially a revered monk is a time for celebration, when his spirit is freed to go where ever they believe it goes. That is why the three day event is accompanied by gaiety and laughter, there are no tears as in western society. The villagers arrange the funfair, the morlam singers and dancers, not farangs. They , as usual will be drinking , dancing and playing cards, the only time they can do it legally is at a death.
I am not a stupid man and checked wth the Poo Yai before posting the invite. I was assured son-in laws would be very welcome.
Maybe you should get out from those farang bars you love to write about and into the community you have chosen to live in.
FArang" your posting is about your normal par

Post by **farang** » May 13, 2006, 8:38 am

valentine wrote:.
FArang" your posting is about your normal par

sorry val(val rak val) i 4got you know evreything about everything!!!!
i have only lived here for 22 years and i know nowt!!! o well
i wont post on here anymore just to make u happy.....
i`ll just pm people with info if thats ok with you SIR....

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 9:34 am

farang wrote:
valentine wrote:.
FArang" your posting is about your normal par
sorry val(val rak val) i 4got you know evreything about everything!!!!
i have only lived here for 22 years and i know nowt!!! o well
i wont post on here anymore just to make u happy.....
i`ll just pm people with info if thats ok with you SIR....

Whilst I enjoy debate with my interlectual equals I don't think we would have much to say of mutual interest.
Your final paragraph seems to contain a thinly veiled threat. That is not a road I would recommend you to travel

WWF

Post by **Paul** » May 13, 2006, 10:14 am

valentine wrote:I suppose that just goes to show how little you know about Thai culture then Paul.I am not a stupid man and checked wth the Poo Yai before posting the invite. I was assured son-in laws would be very welcome.
Maybe you should get out from those farang bars you love to write about and into the community you have chosen to live in.

Yes I know so little about Thai culture. Only the most revered 'Queen of Udon' would hold that luxury.

I cannot for one moment imagine the scene at a 'typical agricultural village' funeral - no matter who is being cremated when a bunch of farangs turn up cameras clicking as if they were on a day out to a tourist attraction. What image of foreigners is this going to portray?
I would invite any of our Thai friends on this forum to give us their opinion from a 'real' Thai persons pint of view.

Perhaps at the next major road accident we can all get invites for that too and experience some more real Thai culture - don't forget your cameras. If that is Thai culture - you are welcome to it !

As for the image you have portrayed of me in "those farang bars". I take it you mean the ones that I go to on the Udonmap Forumites monthly meetings? (of course until you stopped attending them, wasn't it because you thought only old people should attend?)

Quote:Valentine
I will not speak for others.I find it rather less interesting, and certainly lacks the comradie of before, now that we have teenagers in the group. What does someone of such tender age have in common with us old foggies?Even the choice of music is from another planet.
Unquote:

Pehaps you would care to mention which other bars you have seen me in?
How is the nightmarket Beer Garden lately by the way? Still soaking up the atmosphere and slightly cheaper beer on a Saturday night ?

Enjoy the funeral - and please tell us how many foreigners turned up.

Post by **papaguido** » May 13, 2006, 10:33 am

Post by **Paul** » May 13, 2006, 10:54 am

Grandad
Your post was removed - not exactly helpful was it?

Papaguido - the quote referred to in your post was removed for the same reason (otherwise why remove the post if the quote is still viewable)

If anyone has an opinion on the subject matter please submit it so we can discuss it in what is apparently a somewhat sensitive issue.

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 10:58 am

papaguido wrote:
Grandad wrote:Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

SorryPapaguido and Grandad. I am too much of a gentleman to engage in squabling. If members don't want to attend, that is up to them, its a free world. However 2 have already contacted me for travel details so my posting was of interest to some, that makes it worth while.
I presume Paul that your designation of "The Queen of Udon" was directed at me. You really must be careful, your strange sarcasm has already led to the resignation of one senior member, fortunately returned. Don't get too excited though, it isn't likely to affect me that way, I am of much sterner material.
I saw the Poo yai of the village this morning and he is excited at the prospect of us son in laws attending.As its your wifes home village I wonder if you will be there after all you are a very local son in law.?

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 11:12 am

Paul wrote:Grandad
Your post was removed - not exactly helpful was it?

Papaguido - the quote referred to in your post was removed for the same reason (otherwise why remove the post if the quote is still viewable)

If anyone has an opinion on the subject matter please submit it so we can discuss it in what is apparently a somewhat sensitive issue.

Having posted my last comment I returned to forum to see the mail I was partially replying to had been erased.I found nothing in either that was against forum rules nor offensive. To be honest your sarcastic title referring to me as a Queen could have been interpreteted to be more so. I for one could see the implied humour in the two gentlemans postings but for the life of me I can see nothing but sarcasm in yours.Another classic case of moderators deleting posts because of a personal gripe, not forum rules. Put that bl dy eraser away it will lead to the destruction of our forum.

Post by **Paul** » May 13, 2006, 11:15 am

I am not a Buddhist, I did not know this monk or any of his family - in fact in all probability I have never even seen him , let alone heard of him.

If a vicar/priest or whatever died in Oxford or anywhere else I might have lived -whom I have never met or even heard of, I would not attend his funeral or the post funeral activities - and certainly not to get good camera picture.

Toursit attractions around Udon include Erawan Cave, The statue park in Nong Khai, Phu Foilom, Ubolrat dam etc etc etc. - but a local monks funeral too ? sorry not my cup of tea.

Enjoy your day out - but no, you will not see me there. Sorry.

Post by **Grandad** » May 13, 2006, 11:18 am

Sorry Paul - I was just joking - trying to diffuse the situation.

George

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 11:26 am

Paul wrote:
Enjoy your day out - but no, you will not see me there. Sorry.

Your privilige Paul, shame though we could have shared a bottle of Laos Cow

Post by **Bangsean_girl** » May 13, 2006, 11:27 am

In my opinion as I am one of the Thai, and I would not like it if I see a crowd of farang taking photos in the funeral and make it like a tourist attraction place to turn it all around how would you farang ppl feel if I go to the funeral in ur country and make it like tourist place? -even for the Thai cuture it's not usual to bring the camera to the funeral except u was paid to make it from the relative of the dead body . I dont know about ur cuture tho- maybe in farang cuture ur alowed to do that? Most of the thai funeral we will have a letter to invite all the people we know to the funeral and I

Post by **Paul** » May 13, 2006, 11:29 am

valentine wrote: Having posted my last comment I returned to forum to see the mail I was partially replying to had been erased.I found nothing in either that was against forum rules nor offensive.

Rule Number 8 states:
8. You will only post messages that are within the particular forum

valentine · Post by **valentine** » May 13, 2006, 11:37 am

Paul wrote:
valentine wrote: Having posted my last comment I returned to forum to see the mail I was partially replying to had been erased.I found nothing in either that was against forum rules nor offensive.

Rule Number 8 states:
8. You will only post messages that are within the particular forum

Post by **Grandad** » May 13, 2006, 11:37 am

There's nothing wrong (or Immoral) about joining in the celebration of a monk's life at his cremation. Like Val said everyone is welcome, just maybe ask the monks or the host (probably the children of the monk) of the 'festivities' when you arrive. They won't mind. It's not morbid - remember this is Thailand - not Oxford.

George

Post by **Paul** » May 13, 2006, 11:55 am

valentine wrote:[
I really don't want to go any deeper with you Paul, enjoy the power trip you are on as a moderator

I am accountable for my actions - and anything I have done as a moderator (suprisingly little actually) is known about by admin.

I see you have had a problem with just about every moderator and admin staff on this forum - and appear to think they are on a 'power trip' however - just like policemen, they are always expected to be there when you need them - whatever you think of them.

To get back on topic - and the funeral,

May I ask if you knew this particular monk or ever met him? if so perhaps you can tell us how or why he attained the position he did which has respectfully earned him his status. Is it because of his devotion to Buddhism or something he did which gave him high merit?
Just how does a monk earn this high status ? are they 'promoted' through the ranks ?

Post by **Mudshark** » May 13, 2006, 11:56 am

When you are a guest in someone else's culture, there is always a fine line between your legitimate curiosity about that culture and stepping over the line and turning their practices into a circus.

I did attend the four day wake for my girlfriend's grandmother this January. I was invited and I found it pretty interesting. The deceased had been cremated months before, this was a celebration of her life. I did take some video's of the monk's talk to the 100 or so invited guests and gave a copy to the family. I was asked to do this, however.

If I was invited to the cremation of a prominent monk, I would attend but I don't think I could bring myself to take any pictures even if asked. I also would really want to see a crowd of non-buddist's there. It would just look too much like voyeurism.

So..my rule is indulge your curiosity but watch out for turning things into the circus that you traveled so far to escape!