30 day ext. of a 60 day tourist visa & the req. for photos.

[SanukJoe]

Yes indeed jorg the second Tourist Visa must be activated before the expiry date.
I agree that what is the expiry date is certainly open to interpretation.
My O visa from Hull says the words...
visa must be utilised before......and gives a date.
The last visa I received from Vientiane says the words
Enter Before.......and gives a date.
I would understand that to mean that if you try & enter exactly on that date then technically the visa has expired. I do not know if the Immigration Service interpret it this way or actually allow the visa on that date. As you say, to gamble that they do for 1 day does not look like a good gamble to me....
60 (or 90 depending on visa) days if they do, 15 days if they do not......or a no issues 59 or 89 days the day before. I know which I would go for...

I think you're mistaken Bob. The date mentioned is the "enter before" date or also called validation date. It means that from the date you enter Thailand your visa is valid, no matter single or double entry. If it would relate to the second date you enter they would give different dates for single entry and double entry, i.e. 60 days for single and 120 days for double. They don't, the "enter before" date is always 90 days after issuing date, I checked it in my pp.

Logically (I know it's a precious word in government offices ) if you would be right they would state "expiry date" or "this visa expires on ..." and not "enter before"

The reason for the validation date being 90 days after issue is IMO to prevent people to stay years in Lao and then enter Thailand on a visa that was issued years before.

Cheers
Joe

[lopburi3]

Bob is not mistaken - the date of a visa is from issue until the date on that visa - all entries must be made before that date. That date itself is beyond the visa period and normally entry will not be allowed (other than visa exempt) if you want until that day. A visa has nothing to do with being in Thailand - that is your permitted to stay time. A visa only applies to entry into the country.

The normal issue is 3 months for single entry and 6 months for two or more entry (but that is up to the Consulate and locally they issue only for 3 months).

A visa is dead either on day of expiration marked on the visa or on use of the final entry that a visa allows (first entry on a single entry visa). From that point on you must either extend your stay or obtain a new visa entry.

[SanukJoe]

Bob is not mistaken - the date of a visa is from issue until the date on that visa - all entries must be made before that date. That date itself is beyond the visa period and normally entry will not be allowed (other than visa exempt) if you want until that day. A visa has nothing to do with being in Thailand - that is your permitted to stay time. A visa only applies to entry into the country.

The normal issue is 3 months for single entry and 6 months for two or more entry (but that is up to the Consulate and locally they issue only for 3 months).

A visa is dead either on day of expiration marked on the visa or on use of the final entry that a visa allows (first entry on a single entry visa). From that point on you must either extend your stay or obtain a new visa entry.

Without doubting your expertise in this matter I still have some remarks.

A visa has nothing to do with being in Thailand
A visa grants you permission to stay in a certain country during a certain period of time. Thailand Tourist visa 60 days, Non Imm 90 days. So it's not only a border document but more a proof of being allowed to stay during the time stated. Without a valid visa you would be illegally in Thailand...

The normal issue is 3 months for single entry and 6 months for two or more entry
In not one of my series of double entry visas 6 months has been issued, all (also the single entry I had the first time) are issued 3 months. As I stated before it would make sense to issue 3 months for single and 6 months for double entry, that way all would be clear. Now it is everything but clear and it would be good to have input from an official side.

Can you explain why it is not called "expiry date"? IMO because it is the validation date and not the expiry date. By entering Thailand you validate the visa and the granted period of time starts by then. If you fail to enter before the validation date the visa is useless and you have to apply again.

day of expiration marked on the visa Sorry, there is no expiration date mentioned on the visa!
Expiration of the visa period is indicated in a stamp in your pp, done by a customs officer.

Joe

[lopburi3]

I have provided the correct information.

A visa is equivalent to an invitation letter - it gets you to the doorkeeper - it is up to him (immigration) if you are allowed entry and for how long. A visa never guarantees anything - only the stamp immigration places in your passport allows you to stay in Thailand and that does not require a visa - millions of travelers never obtain a visa and just use visa exempt entry to obtain a stamp for 30 days.

I clearly stated the Consulates in the area use only 3 months - outside of the local area they often use 6 months for two or more entries. It is clearly stated on the MFA website if you can not believe me - longer periods are up to the Consulate. The visa is like a commercial product it has a date of manufacture (issue date) and a use by date (use before) - the visa is used to get you to the Thai border so any such use must be made before that use by date. You can still remain in Thailand beyond that date with the stamp Immigration provides you.

The expiration date is the use by/before date that every visa has on it. Customs officers never stamp passports - that is an immigration officer. And his stamp is a permission to stay.

[jorg]

I clearly stated the Consulates in the area use only 3 months - outside of the local area they often use 6 months for two or more entries.

This is correct, my first double entry visa was issued at The Hague (Holland) and was valid for 6 months, the second visa issued at Vientiane is only valid for 3 months. Also it used to be possible to get three entries in the consulate in The Hague (that explains the 6 months validity), but they told me this was not possible at that moment because of the visa was free of charge.

[SanukJoe]

I will not spend more time on this subject, each one can/will find out what is true and what not. Remember that rules can change unexpectedly as I found out (30 day extension) and that what is true today might be useless tomorrow.

The 3 months date, if expiry, makes it nearly impossible to go for 60 + 30 days and then enter again... certainly when one stays a few days in Lao after issue date. But it is possible in theory.

If I find something interesting re this subject I will of course post it.

Cheers
Joe

[lopburi3]

You are correct that normal max usage would be 60+28/9+60+30. But the two entry visa is not designed to allow a long stay but to allow you to visit another country and then return for a second stay. A tourist visa designed for a normal tourist activity of travel.

I hope that I have been able to explain a bit although I know it may seem argumentative - things do often change and often we are reading from different books so it is very easy to get terminology wrong (even when there is consensus). Having another language which often can not be exactly translated adds to the problems we face trying to keep track of the current laws/policy/local variations and such.

[homer]

I think what you are suggesting is possible Joe. Without wanting to complicate things.... The double entry Tourist visa has an expiry date of six months - so you would be 'enacting' the visa before it had expired.
Like you I was sure that they extended the 'free tourist visa' to about March next year.
Anybodies guess what they will do after that. Some of it seems 1 step forward (free tourist visa) 1 step back (15 days on arrival overland). It actually mystifies me what the overall plan is - or even if there is one...

Sorry if I seem a bit thick Bob, but are you saying that the double entry visa has a 6 month expiry date from the time of application and have to use both entries within that period of time? I was thinking about getting one this time around, but I'm not sure if that will work into my plans.
As for the "free" tourist visa, it is March next year and I believe it was put in place to hopefully restore tourism back to it's former numbers. The reduction to 15 days overland was to curb Farang from using the tourist visa to stay in LOS indefinitely, although who can say. TIT

[lopburi3]

A two entry tourist visa issued in Vientiane has a 3 month expiry date so both entries must be made within that time. But you can enter on day 89 for a new 60 day period and then extend that stay another 30 days.

Currently the free tourist visas are until March 4. 2010. However many Consulates will only issue single entry.

[BobHelm]

Yes I think (as Lopburi is saying) it very much depends which Embassy or Consulate in which Country you are going to get your visa from.
If you say where you are (country) going to apply for the visa then I am sure that someone on here will advise.
I know somethings about Vientiane (because I have got Tourists visas from there) and some about the UK (for the same reason ) BUT I know that the 'rules applied' in (for example) the USA or Australia will be greatly different from UK or Vientiane & which visa to apply for & what you will be give will be different as well....