Whats in a Name....and how it can affect you!

[eko2248]

What’s in a Name?

It is commonly believed that once a farange legally marries a Thai lady, thereafter his written approval will be required at any time she wishes to buy, sell, mortgage, transfer or otherwise dispose of or compromise family assets. Since a legal marriage gives each spouse a claim to half of all family assets, this injunction seems to be a reasonable safeguard for those farange husbands who have put all their Thai assets in their wives’ names. They have accepted that should the marriage subsequently fail, they will lose half their investment. But retain half.

But be warned. Things do not always work out as one expects.

Take the case of a Brit who had been married to a Thai lady for 12 years. During that time he invested 8.0 million in land & house, 3.7 million in 2 cars and 2 motorcycles (2 being 1500 plus cc type choppers and 2 being Honda mopeds) and over 5.0 million in 2 bank accounts. A total savings/investment of 16.7 million. Then during the next 4 years things changed. Later he learnt that she had started to gamble – unfortunately not successfully, and in doing so began to lose money. His/their money. First the cash simply disappeared. Then he learnt that the motorcycles had suddenly been used as collateral for a 2 million baht loan. Finally, he discovered that his house was to be repossessed, as she had taken out a 5.0 million baht loan against which she had made no installment payments for 13 months. Unpaid interest on that loan had been accumulated – first at 7.5% then at 15.0% so now stood at 766,000 baht.

So how was this possible when he had never been consulted and had never signed giving his approval to these borrowings?

The simple answer was because she had never changed her name when she married him. Thus she continued to hold her national ID card in her maiden name which showed that she was a single lady.

The Lenders – predominantly the Bank, believed that she was a single Thai lady and did not ask any further questions or require any additional paper work. In fact, they did not even ask how she intended to repay the debt or what her source of monthly income was. If it did come up in conversation she simply lied.

The money she borrowed she lost. So over 4 years she had reduced 16.7 million baht to 2.9 million. When he finally learnt the truth, her behavior had of course killed the marriage but worse was to come. He had to pay 2.0 million to clear the charges against the 4 motorcycles. He had to pay 6.8 million to reclaim his house. Then she asked the court that he pay her half of the remaining 2.9 million baht of net assets as her property settlement upon Termination of the Marriage. Clearly she needed some money to settle other gambling debts because her life was at risk.

Now what are the lessons to be learnt from this sad tale?

First, make sure your name appears as co-owner of every bank account that you create during the marriage AND that your signature is required for every withdrawal.

Second, check your spouse’s ID. If it is still in her maiden name or if it shows that she is a single person ask her why and if there are not very strong reasons why that should be the case, insist that she change it so that her status is that of a Married lady and her Family name at least includes your family name. This can be easily done by hyphenating the two family names. When a Thai girl marries, current rules gives the girl the right to choose if she wants to be shown as Miss or Mrs. And if she wants to continue to use her maiden name, there is no compulsion for her to change it. But unless she does change her Status or her Family Name, or both, Thai lenders have no reason why they should require the approval of a second person before giving her the requested loan.

Three, make sure you obtain and hold all title documents – chanotes, green books etc and then store them away where she can not get access to them. This is not foolproof as copies can be obtained, so still be wary.

What’s in a name? Huge risk if the name allows her to steal family assets which you paid for. Be warned and protect yourself. If unsure seek advice. The cost of doing so may result in major avoidance of loss in the future.

[jingjai]

Thanks eko2248. Good info and advice.
My wife changed her surname to my surname on her Thai I.D. card & passport shortly after we were legally married. Actually, it was her idea to begin with. I never really thought about it. I didn't think it mattered, one way or another, because we had a legal marriage certificate.

[aznyron]

LOL only in Thailand I know of a case a thai lady used a rented care for gambling debt and the car rental
agent never got it back this would never happen in a civilized society BTW the Police wanted 20 K from the rental agent to get the car back which she gave them to my understanding and she never got the car back so she was scammed TWICE and she is a THAI

[laphanphon]

in udon, the name thing is not how it is done here. the lady must change her id on marriage and divorce, but it will continue to say married, even though not married, just signifies she was married. it's all computerized, she must change name on every change, but it will say married. thought that strange, as my ex is still listed as mrs. even though divorced.

and the other, well, what can i say............

he invested 8.0 million in land & house, 3.7 million in 2 cars and 2 motorcycles (2 being 1500 plus cc type choppers and 2 being Honda mopeds) and over 5.0 million in 2 bank accounts. A total savings/investment of 16.7 million

all that equals one thing to me...............................idiot.

she had reduced 16.7 million baht to 2.9 million

Later he learnt that she had started to gamble

just started, never did it before..................yea, right, that's almost believable.
not to be redundant....................................idiot, guess he never checks his bank account.

[old-timer]

Later he learnt that she had started to gamble – unfortunately not successfully, and in doing so began to lose money. His/their money. First the cash simply disappeared. Then he learnt that the motorcycles had suddenly been used as collateral for a 2 million baht loan. Finally, he discovered that his house was to be repossessed, as she had taken out a 5.0 million baht loan against which she had made no installment payments for 13 months. Unpaid interest on that loan had been accumulated – first at 7.5% then at 15.0% so now stood at 766,000 baht.
He had to pay 6.8 million to reclaim his house. Then she asked the court that he pay her half of the remaining 2.9 million baht of net assets as her property settlement upon Termination of the Marriage. Clearly she needed some money to settle other gambling debts because her life was at risk.

Wasn't too bad then......

[old-timer]

I forgot to say in my last post because I was laughing so much..My Mrs changed everything into her new falang name as soon as we were married - a few months later I sent some money by western union in her maiden name because I can be a bit forgetful, what a blo0dy fiasco that turned out to be.....
O/T... working for the community and a better memory... chock dee...

[banpaeng]

LA again you have said it so eloquently. I am sure the guy knew his lady well before they were married and paid attention during the marriage. Stories like this just make me wonder what goes on in peoples mind. Idiot sounds real.

[Fawn]

Yeah, makes you wonder doesn't it. I can't help thinking Lima Alpha has a point, there are some woefully dumb ex-pats that marry TGs. I reckon TGs see them coming and have them pinged as dullards right from the start.

[LoveDaBlues]

For some reason Thai women seem to get 'hooked' on gambling in greater numbers than Thai men. I know of dozens of stories (right here in UT) similar to this one.

I don't think the guy's an idiot for buying the things he liked. However, having 5 million in bank accounts here doesn't make much sense. It's basically 'dead money' as they don't pay squat for interest.

I know so many Thai ladies that gamble......it staggers the imagination.

[UdonExpat]

Well, they married farangs. They've got to be gamblers!

[LoveDaBlues]

Well, they married farangs. They've got to be gamblers!

From what I've seen......if I were a Thai lady I'd like my odds better with a falang than a Thai man.....IMHO
of course! :-"

[laphanphon]

depends what rung of the social/economic ladder you are on, i've seen a lot more thais with lot more money than farangs, and maybe not a CC like me

and ................. they can speak the language

[LoveDaBlues]

Something happened to me this week; kind of fits into this thread so I'll share.

I'm in the early stages of building a house. Actual construction starts on Oct. 31. I'm legally married to a Thai lady and have a 30 year lease from her on the property. I had to sign a paper recently giving the builder permission to proceed. It seems he was getting his permits (or whatever) in order at the tessaban and they told him there was a lease on the property. They told him he couldn't proceed unless I (the lessee) signed a form (which I did of course). They told him I had complete control over the property.

Made me feel good; so many people poo-poo the 30 year lease and say it isn't binding.

Anyway, after I signed the form the wife started jumping up and down and laughing. She told me I just signed a form cancelling my lease. Of course she was kidding.....wasn't she.......

----------------------------
Also, without mentioning names; here's a similar story. I have a friend who WOULD HAVE LOST HIS PAID-FOR HOME if he didn't have the 30 year lease. Seems his wife borrowed a bunch of baht against the home while he was out of the country. Upon his return the 'lenders' tried to take his house as the wife didn't pay back any of the money. She hid the fact from the 'lenders' that her falang husband had a 30 year lease on the property. Anyway my friend was told by a lawyer not to worry as the 'lenders' couldn't legally take the house. I'm guessing the 'lenders' were told the same thing from their lawyer as they have not pursued legal action. Of course, if the lessee were to die....so does the lease..... :-"

[laphanphon]

or the wife can cancel lease after being divorced for one year

then it's all hers.....well the banks.

[Glyn]

As far as I knew when marrying in Thailand the lady is forced to immediately change her name after the signing of marriage certs, so unless the guy was married outside of Thailand??

On top of this, I have been married for years, and we have bought/sold property, cars and bikes, my wife carries my name (as above) and obviously her ID states married, but I have never been called forward to verify the sale of any property, so I question the info within this thread, sorry guys!

As for bank accounts, I'm not sure, but I thought even 2 unmarried people could hold a joint account??? However I have accounts solely in my name and so does the misses, and neither of us are asked to verify withdrawals, but surely if they were joint (married or unmarried) we would then be asked for 2 signatures, so again is the name change relevant or is it just a case of having a joint account????

None of this original post actually makes sense to me. Sorry not trying to offend anybody, just want Joe Public to get accurate info.

[LoveDaBlues]

As far as I knew when marrying in Thailand the lady is forced to immediately change her name after the signing of marriage certs, so unless the guy was married outside of Thailand??

On top of this, I have been married for years, and we have bought/sold property, cars and bikes, my wife carries my name (as above) and obviously her ID states married, but I have never been called forward to verify the sale of any property, so I question the info within this thread, sorry guys!

As for bank accounts, I'm not sure, but I thought even 2 unmarried people could hold a joint account??? However I have accounts solely in my name and so does the misses, and neither of us are asked to verify withdrawals, but surely if they were joint (married or unmarried) we would then be asked for 2 signatures, so again is the name change relevant or is it just a case of having a joint account????

None of this original post actually makes sense to me. Sorry not trying to offend anybody, just want Joe Public to get accurate info.

A joint account simply means that 2 parties own the account jointly. Either party can withdraw funds without the knowledge of the other. However, accounts CAN be set up that require 2 signatures (or even more than 2).

[LoveDaBlues]

A Thai wife can only divorce if the husband gives consent; otherwise she must have grounds.

BTW; holders of the 30 year lease can sub-lease to a 3rd party and then the courts won't allow the
wife to cancel a lease (at least this is the opinion of many legal experts in Thailand)

Divorce (or attempted divorce) can drag on forever if one of the parties wants it to. Most Thai wives
in Issan can't sustain the money needed in a long divorce attempt.

---------------------- facts below ----------------------------------------

If your wife or husband will not agree to a divorce then you need to file with the courts for a divorce "for cause". In order to proceed with a divorce in this instance you will need to assert grounds for divorce and you must make a personal appearance in court. In Thailand grounds for divorce generally include:

* A 3 year period of separation
* One spouse has deserted the other for over one year
* The husband has taken another woman as his wife
* The wife has committed adultery
* One spouse is guilty of misconduct (criminal or otherwise)
* One spouse has been imprisoned for more than one year
* One spouse has physically or mentally harmed the other
* Lack of marital support
* One spouse has had incurable insanity for at least 3 years
* One spouse has broken the bond of good behavior
* One spouse has an incurable communicable disease
* One spouse has a physical disability so as to be unable to cohabitate as husband and wife.

-------------------------------------------------

Also: When a couple divorce in Thailand all marital property (sin somros) is divided equally. personal property (sin suan tua) remains owned by the individual. So.....even if the Thai wife manages to get the court to grant the divorce the falang husband still gets half.......so all is not lost.

[LoveDaBlues]

Why does this thread suddenly make me think of:

Tammy Wynette......D-I-V-O-R-C-E.........

[trubrit]

As far as I knew when marrying in Thailand the lady is forced to immediately change her name after the signing of marriage certs, so unless the guy was married outside of Thailand??



None of this original post actually makes sense to me. Sorry not trying to offend anybody, just want Joe Public to get accurate info.

So in the cause of accuracy.
The newly married woman is given the option to change her name to yours or retain her own family name, but her status is shown as Mrs whichever she chooses .This applies whether she has a Farang or Thai spouse . If inititally she opted for the spouses name, her family name can revert to her maiden one whenever she wants, be it a divorce or just seperation . Just a visit to the Registrar at ampur. This information has not only been confirmed to me by the Registrar but in the case of the original choice , it applies to my partner .

[jetdoc]

When we married wife kept her maiden name, but she told me if we have a child (not in the plans -- but???) and the child is a male she will have to change her last name to mine. Can't verify but that is what she told me.