Plain stupid, impossibly ignorant or simply selfish?

[KHONDAHM]

Americans tend to be less polite, consequently, they're more courteous.

Agree 100%. And we don't put up with much S, either.

I am usually a really nice and considerate guy. BUT if after having been requested to move on a previous occasion, someone decides to again block my driveway with their car when I need to leave, I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT to put the biggest dent in the side I possibly can. THEN I will walk over to their house and politely ask them to move it again. Leave for the day, as in the case of the poster above, and they would be lucky to return to find it parked awkwardly in the middle of the street...

Just my song baht.

Cheers!

[Texpat]

polite = good manners and etiquette
courteous = polite and considerate in manner
I think you're splitting hairs.

***

I like the self-sufficiency idea floated around these parts. I'm a firm believer in it. If you can create a life whereby you minimize your reliance on the herd, you're much better off.

Tired of the water going off? Get a storage tank and a pump. Tired of the patchwork electric grid going down at the hint of rain? Buy a generator. Convinced that 90 percent of Thai neighbors are loud, inconsiderate slobs? Buy a few rai in the country where you can only see their house if you squint. Internet banking. Do your own minor maintenance. Shop in stores that have prices displayed and give you a legible receipt. Of course you can't live in complete isolation, but I find that when interaction occurs on my terms, I'm much happier.

Limit your exposure to them to what is acceptable to you. Reduce your reliance on them to the greatest extent possible. Self-sufficiency is a great idea -- but likely for different reasons from the author's intent. This philosophy needn't be exclusive to living here. Constantly relying on others is a drag.

[jackspratt]

Sometimes you can't ignore the "herd" - which seems to be what this thread is about.

Care to get back on topic?

[Texpat]

Who died and left you in charge?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

by KHONDAHM on December 1, 2009, 10:22 am


I am usually a really nice and considerate guy. BUT if after having been requested to move on a previous occasion, someone decides to again block my driveway with their car when I need to leave, I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT to put the biggest dent in the side I possibly can. THEN I will walk over to their house and politely ask them to move it again. Leave for the day, as in the case of the poster above, and they would be lucky to return to find it parked awkwardly in the middle of the street...

KHONDAHM
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Posts: 75
Joined: November 15, 2009, 3:07 am
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With this kind of attitude towards Thais, Chinese and others that live in Thailand, you will experience serious problems somewhere down the road, and probably not too far off it either.

[dbriggins]

I've noticed that Thais in general have a hard time with the concept of consequences. I'm not sure if it's genetic or as a result of the Buddhist concept of karma, but for some reason, Thais just don't get the idea that if a=b and b=c then a=c. For most, it looks more like if a=b and b=c, then d=q. The poor git who sits in his car popping zits doesn't seem to understand that he's blocking traffic. The idea that something he does somehow affects others just never seems to get through the old noggin.

I think there is also the whole concept of "Do unto others" being rather foreign. It often looks like Thais don't give a flying fig for anyone else. The example of Thais looting the bodies of the Lauda Air crash victims comes to mind.

On the other hand, most of the concepts of civility that Westerners deal with on a daily basis came about through 5 or 6 generations of slowly adapting to new ways of doing things. Rules of the road, for instance, which have only been in Thai society for one or two generations at the most. And I'm sure any one could come up with lots of examples of Thais "doing good" for others.

[BKKSTAN]

I like the self-sufficiency idea floated around these parts. I'm a firm believer in it. If you can create a life whereby you minimize your reliance on the herd, you're much better off.

Tired of the water going off? Get a storage tank and a pump. Tired of the patchwork electric grid going down at the hint of rain? Buy a generator. Convinced that 90 percent of Thai neighbors are loud, inconsiderate slobs? Buy a few rai in the country where you can only see their house if you squint. Internet banking. Do your own minor maintenance. Shop in stores that have prices displayed and give you a legible receipt. Of course you can't live in complete isolation, but I find that when interaction occurs on my terms, I'm much happier.

Limit your exposure to them to what is acceptable to you. Reduce your reliance on them to the greatest extent possible. Self-sufficiency is a great idea -- but likely for different reasons from the author's intent. This philosophy needn't be exclusive to living here. Constantly relying on others is a drag.

I certainly agree with this philosophy!This is how I attempt to avoid hassles with Thais!

[KHONDAHM]

With this kind of attitude towards Thais, Chinese and others that live in Thailand, you will experience serious problems somewhere down the road, and probably not too far off it either.

You totally mis-read my post or made your own up in your head and put my name on it - lol. Nothing at all in there about those folks YOU inserted. It applies to anybody blocking me in repeatedly after being politely asked not to do it again. I could not care less what nationality.

In fact, I was thinking of a Finnish neighbor who does that sort of thing to people in the neighborhood often. Once to me. But only once. No problems with him after that.

Cheers!

[BKKSTAN]

I understand your position and feelings KHONDAHM!The point I would emphasize is that if the owner was Thai,in Thailand,it probably wouldn't be the smartest move!

[Galee]

Two examples i had the other day whilst following my wife to the Honda garage on the Khon Kaen road out of town.
1. Their doing road works, road is down to 1 lane. The idiot in front of me decides he wants to pull over to the left. He stops with his left hand wheels barely off the road, meaning i can't get past due to the bollards in the middle of the road. At this time the main road has come to a halt. A short blast from my horn and he moves his car about 2 foot. Leave my hand on the horn and he moves it far enough for me to get by. When i drove back 5 minutes later i noticed all the cones had been knocked over by larger vehicles trying to get past.
2. Large slow moving lorry in left hand lane. Car in outside lane going the same speed. Ambulance with lights flashing stuck behind the idiot in the outside lane. He wanted to do a U-turn 2K up the road and there was no way he was going to pull over to let the ambulance pass.

[bumper]

Thai's drive the same way they stand in line, it's selfishness.

[parrot]

"BUT if after having been requested to move on a previous occasion, someone decides to again block my driveway with their car when I need to leave, I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT to put the biggest dent in the side I possibly can. "
Same same but different: You're driving down the highway. A car approaches you in YOUR lane. You request the fool move back to his own lane by flashing your lights. Of course, being Thailand, the fool continues approaching in your lane. Do you move to the shoulder and let him pass or put a dent in his side (front)?
Many years ago, a friend of ours decided he wasn't going to be the one moving to the shoulder. Head on collision and almost cost him his life.

[lepidoptra]

In fairness to the Thais they are unaware they are being stupid, impossibly ignorant or simply selfish.
That's why the fatallity rate on the roads is 30 times greater than the UK

[FrazeeDK]

seems to me that although I have had some inconsiderate acts by Thais when face-to-face that most of the idiocy is out on the road. Could it be that the restraints of Thai society and culture are cast aside when driving a vehicle?? The people whom, if you confronted them in a queue would quickly back off, but in a car won't even look your way?? Perhaps it's an unconcious rebellion against the various krieng Jai strictures in Thai culture, a way to act in a totally unacceptable fashion with no societal condemnation.

[JimboPSM]

Looking at the driving from another perspective - if the rigorous enforcement of traffic laws in the UK (with the fear of substantial fines and/or imprisonment that occurs) were to be removed, then the UK roads could descend into something as bad.

Just think of the chaos and anarchy there would be on the roads from all the boy racers in their high powered vehicles (along with the many other stupid and arrogant drivers) if there was no real enforcement of the traffic and drink driving laws.

It may only be a small consolation but, in my opinion, driving in Asian countries has improved considerably over the last thirty years – however it still has an awful long way to go

[KHONDAHM]

In fairness to the Thais they are unaware they are being stupid, impossibly ignorant or simply selfish.

I do not disagree with the statement, but I am convinced it is more of an ignorance issue. Ignorance in the dictionary sense of the word - as in never having known, understood, or appreciated that there is any other way of doing/handling things.

I recall having that epiphany (after years spent in country being amazed) during the few weeks I spent in the village after the wife and I tied the knot. They just had no clue about the "proper way" to handle situations. Nobody wore helmets, so nobody wore helmets. Nobody ever called for more supplies when stocks were critically low, so nobody called for supplies when stocks were critically low. That sort of thing.

To turn the situation around, I am sure we all probably did some ignorant things from a Thai perspective. I recall the first times I touched some stranger's head, or sat in the wat with the soles of my feet facing the monks, or tossing out som-tam thinking it was rotted, or parking with the emergency brake set, and the list goes on. Made perfect sense to me in all those situations.

While I do not condone stereotyping ALL Thais, I am guilty of not disagreeing and occasionally partaking. Perhaps forgetting my epiphany that day in the village is my (our) ignorance. I find myself reminding myself.

It's the same reality, but a different paradigm.

Just my song-baht.

Cheers!

[KHONDAHM]

"BUT if after having been requested to move on a previous occasion, someone decides to again block my driveway with their car when I need to leave, I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT to put the biggest dent in the side I possibly can. "
Same same but different: You're driving down the highway. A car approaches you in YOUR lane. You request the fool move back to his own lane by flashing your lights. Of course, being Thailand, the fool continues approaching in your lane. Do you move to the shoulder and let him pass or put a dent in his side (front)?
Many years ago, a friend of ours decided he wasn't going to be the one moving to the shoulder. Head on collision and almost cost him his life.

Not sure why my quote was put in there, but it reads like:

I stepped into the shower this morning and BAM! The Mets won the Daytona 500.

[johnty.]

Plain stupid,impossibly ignorant or simply selfish? think an addition to this list is needed(simply shithous**),approx 6-8months ago i went to our pick up to put my bags in ready for the long trek back to the UK. Upon opening the door i noticed a lot of debris on back seats and the floor,soon realised our back windscreen had been smashed,above the window there was a big dent on the bodywork and a smashed glass water bottle lay on the floor empty, my wife went to the neighbours to see if anybody heard anything and our nearest 2 neighbours both heard something early hours but didnt get up to see what it was,the conclusion from both of them was that i must have been driving in such a way that upset a thai driver and because i was farang they would know that i would have to take big test to get licence in farangland and they may possibly be jealous,this according to my neighbours(all translated by t/w)is the way Thai's payback to avoid confrontation.firstly,i never drive if i have more than 1 drink,secondly i didn't drive the night before and i dont see the sense in such actions.The police came the next day and thier opinion was (maybe a group of young Thai's that were drunk just did it for fun)can you possibly see a group of young thai's coming on to a housing complex and targeting a pick up that is parked virtually in the middle of the complex in our locked driveway?just thought i would share this occurence i case anybody had similar,,,,johnty.

[dbriggins]

In fairness to the Thais they are unaware they are being stupid, impossibly ignorant or simply selfish.

I recall having that epiphany (after years spent in country being amazed) during the few weeks I spent in the village after the wife and I tied the knot. They just had no clue about the "proper way" to handle situations. Nobody wore helmets, so nobody wore helmets. Nobody ever called for more supplies when stocks were critically low, so nobody called for supplies when stocks were critically low. That sort of thing.

To turn the situation around, I am sure we all probably did some ignorant things from a Thai perspective. I recall the first times I touched some stranger's head, or sat in the wat with the soles of my feet facing the monks, or tossing out som-tam thinking it was rotted, or parking with the emergency brake set, and the list goes on. Made perfect sense to me in all those situations.

But don't you think there is a difference between ignorance of Cause/Effect like the examples you gave and your examples of simple cultural ignorance?

I don't think this is a strictly Thai issue, though. The Indonesian Communication and Information Minister claimed the other day that all the disasters Indonesia was having were caused by TV programmes that were destroying morals. That people were being killed because of shoddy construction allowed by official corruption seems to have slipped by his radar. It reminds me of the time that a famous monk claimed that Chatchai had been overthrown in a coup because of something he did in a former life.

Perhaps Asia needs to benefit from an "Age of Reason" that so affected Western thought. Back in the dark ages, people thought that disasters, sickness, bad decisions, etc, were the result of divine judgment. Heck, here in Tennessee, some of the Baptists still do (AIDs is considered by some of the more bizarre Christian groups to be God's judgment against homosexuals, prostitutes and those who use them, and drug addicts). When an earthquake hit Sicily in the 1400's they burned people at the stake because they believed that by doing so, divine retribution would be diverted.

How many times have you seen painted phallic symbols outside of villages in Isan, put there to ward off vengeful ghosts out after the souls of young men? Not exactly the epitome of reason. The Thai thirst for vengeance is famous, thanks to numerous stories of gruesome murders, detached sex organs, and drive-by shootings.

Ignorance? A culture stuck in the dark ages? Mental issues? Who knows? But can farangs say we are all that different? Guy walks into a coffee shop in Seattle and shoots dead four police officers. Woman in Bangkok is gunned down probably by a disgruntled business associate. Is there really a difference?

[Paul]

We are not talking about those committing crimes here though, we are talking about dumb-ass acts and if they realise they are doing them (or the consequences of doing them)